Landlords obligation to repairs?
Discussion
I rent from a pain in the arse landlord.
We do not have mains drainage so its a septic tank system. We moved in at the end of August and so far have been without a working toilet/drains for a total of 12 days in 3 seperate incidents. Thus we have not been able to stay at the house for these days!
He got a builder/plumber out to sort it a few weeks ago who agreed to do the work (replacing the partly collapsed pipe from the house to the first tank) on his Buildings insurance.
This worked fine for a few weeks.
Now it seems that the problem is actually to do with the water draining out from the second tank, some form of blockage seems most likely.
My landlord is being useless in terms of getting someone out to sort it. So much so that I ended up spending my own money getting the tank emptied as a temporary remedy.
Ive just got off the phone to him and he is now saying that if parts of the tank need digging up and replacing then he will have to leave it until next year as he cannot afford to do it.
I just wondered if anyone had an idea on where I stood with him being responsible for getting things repaired and using "I cant afford it" as an excuse?
If it were something insignificant, a broken cupboard for example then obviously I can live with it. But when the problem leaves me with no sanitation in the house then surely he cannot get away with this?
We do not have mains drainage so its a septic tank system. We moved in at the end of August and so far have been without a working toilet/drains for a total of 12 days in 3 seperate incidents. Thus we have not been able to stay at the house for these days!
He got a builder/plumber out to sort it a few weeks ago who agreed to do the work (replacing the partly collapsed pipe from the house to the first tank) on his Buildings insurance.
This worked fine for a few weeks.
Now it seems that the problem is actually to do with the water draining out from the second tank, some form of blockage seems most likely.
My landlord is being useless in terms of getting someone out to sort it. So much so that I ended up spending my own money getting the tank emptied as a temporary remedy.
Ive just got off the phone to him and he is now saying that if parts of the tank need digging up and replacing then he will have to leave it until next year as he cannot afford to do it.
I just wondered if anyone had an idea on where I stood with him being responsible for getting things repaired and using "I cant afford it" as an excuse?
If it were something insignificant, a broken cupboard for example then obviously I can live with it. But when the problem leaves me with no sanitation in the house then surely he cannot get away with this?
I guess there's no one inbetween you and the landlord?
When I rented a place out things were always sorted - the management agency (local estate agents) handled all of this, so there was no direct contact with the tenants.. Makes things a lot easier!!
So he's happy to take your rent each month but not fix the problem?? You could (possibly) suggest not paying 1 months rent and paying for the work? or something along those lines - but I'll admit that, that suggestion seems to start opening up more worms from the can than putting them back in!!
Check your rental agreement as well!
When I rented a place out things were always sorted - the management agency (local estate agents) handled all of this, so there was no direct contact with the tenants.. Makes things a lot easier!!
So he's happy to take your rent each month but not fix the problem?? You could (possibly) suggest not paying 1 months rent and paying for the work? or something along those lines - but I'll admit that, that suggestion seems to start opening up more worms from the can than putting them back in!!
Check your rental agreement as well!
I seem to remember that: A tenant can withold rent to carry out essential repairs to a property, providing all requests to the landlord have been exhaustive and failed. However I would seek legal advice before doing that in case I am talking bo
ocks. Try the spped, the plod and the law forum on PH
ocks. Try the spped, the plod and the law forum on PHEnvironmental Health will have the landlord jumping through hoops, but it wont do anything for your relationship with him. Agreeing with the landlord (get it in writing!) a rent free period and paying for the work yourself is a good suggestion, but dont try just witholding rent without agreement as you will end up in as much trouble as your landlord and you'll have a Section 21 (Notice to Quit) on your doormat within days.
Well Ive just spoken to the Plumber directly (who is a top bloke and wants to help me out after realising the landlord is a tight fisted waste of space) and he has got the go ahead to empty the tanks and jet through all the pipes etc.
So aslong as this all happens then I dont think I can fault him in 'trying' to get the problem sorted.
If he turns round and refuses to get repairs done as he "can't afford them" then Ill have to go and get some proper legal advice.
So aslong as this all happens then I dont think I can fault him in 'trying' to get the problem sorted.
If he turns round and refuses to get repairs done as he "can't afford them" then Ill have to go and get some proper legal advice.
SuPaSpArK said:
Ring the local environmental heath officer...it will get sorted!
Agree, then landlord should be accorded reasonable time to carry out said repairs, and if landlord fails to do the same, then tenant should arrange the repairs and deduct the costs from his/her rental payments.Wings said:
SuPaSpArK said:
Ring the local environmental heath officer...it will get sorted!
Agree, then landlord should be accorded reasonable time to carry out said repairs, and if landlord fails to do the same, then tenant should arrange the repairs and deduct the costs from his/her rental payments.On a side note... Is there anything I could do if he decides to issue us with ending the tenancy purely because he doesn't want to do the repairs but makes out that it is just his right under the assured tenancy agreement?
Surely you are entitled to 'quiet enjoyment' of the property leased and it has to be in a fit state to occupy.
I would suggest that, in its current state, it isn't in a fit state to live in and therefor you should be entitled to either end the lease early and move, or withold rent until the repairs are carried out.
The other option is, with your Landlord's agreement in writing, you get the repairs carried out and deduct the costs from the rental.
His cash problems should not affect your ability to live there now and leaving it till he can afford to do the work, is not at all reasonable.
Put it all in writing to protect yourself if things go downhill.
I would suggest that, in its current state, it isn't in a fit state to live in and therefor you should be entitled to either end the lease early and move, or withold rent until the repairs are carried out.
The other option is, with your Landlord's agreement in writing, you get the repairs carried out and deduct the costs from the rental.
His cash problems should not affect your ability to live there now and leaving it till he can afford to do the work, is not at all reasonable.
Put it all in writing to protect yourself if things go downhill.
Presumably you have an assured shorthold that started at the end of August - does it have a six or twelve month minimum period?
If it's six months minimum term, then he can give you notice to leave at and after the end of the tenancy (with two months notice, ending on a rent day) regardless of any repair issues.
What does your tenancy agreement say about his responsibility for repairs? Probably very little I imagine?
You can contact Environmental Health but as said above, it's not going to go down well with your landlord and he might well turf you out at the earliest opportunity! The place does have to be habitable and EH would look at what access to facilities you have - there is caselaw about what is and isn't habitable but I can't recall the details.
I can't tell from your posts if it is now resolved? Is the plumber doing what needs to be done on your LL's instruction so that whether he pays or not isn't your problem?
If you've instructed the plumber then you're going to have to pay and then deduct from the rent - your tenancy agreement probably says you can't do this but should your LL get tetchy with you then disputes of this nature will usually go in front of District Judge and they are often very tenant friendly so I would just do it anyway.
As an aside, I would be very wary of instructing repairs on any drainage issues, if you instruct the plumber to rod or jet the drains and something collapses the LL is very likely to try to claim against you for instructing work that you have no right to have done.
Is this somewhere that you really want to stay?
If it's six months minimum term, then he can give you notice to leave at and after the end of the tenancy (with two months notice, ending on a rent day) regardless of any repair issues.
What does your tenancy agreement say about his responsibility for repairs? Probably very little I imagine?
You can contact Environmental Health but as said above, it's not going to go down well with your landlord and he might well turf you out at the earliest opportunity! The place does have to be habitable and EH would look at what access to facilities you have - there is caselaw about what is and isn't habitable but I can't recall the details.
I can't tell from your posts if it is now resolved? Is the plumber doing what needs to be done on your LL's instruction so that whether he pays or not isn't your problem?
If you've instructed the plumber then you're going to have to pay and then deduct from the rent - your tenancy agreement probably says you can't do this but should your LL get tetchy with you then disputes of this nature will usually go in front of District Judge and they are often very tenant friendly so I would just do it anyway.
As an aside, I would be very wary of instructing repairs on any drainage issues, if you instruct the plumber to rod or jet the drains and something collapses the LL is very likely to try to claim against you for instructing work that you have no right to have done.
Is this somewhere that you really want to stay?
Piglet, thanks for the reply.
We do really want to stay in the house, it took us a while to find and we do really like it bar the problems we are going through.
To clarify a few points,
I have not instructed anyone to do any work. I have always been careful not to do this.
The plumber is now coming out this week to do the work (cleaning/jetting of drains, if this does not remedy the problem he will identify what needs to be done) so, to be fair to the LL he has got things done.
My main concern at the moment is that the work will not solve the problem and will identify that major work needs to be done. The LL has already said he cannot afford this so will just serve us notice rather than pay the repair bill.
Ive just spoken to Mrs R and she has tried to calm me down, I realise I need to be careful with how hard I press him or he will just serve notice and be done with it (though if he cant afford £3k of work Im not sure he could afford to lose over £1k a month in rent!)
Needless to say Mrs R will now be doing the communication work. She has much more charm than me!
We do really want to stay in the house, it took us a while to find and we do really like it bar the problems we are going through.
To clarify a few points,
I have not instructed anyone to do any work. I have always been careful not to do this.
The plumber is now coming out this week to do the work (cleaning/jetting of drains, if this does not remedy the problem he will identify what needs to be done) so, to be fair to the LL he has got things done.
My main concern at the moment is that the work will not solve the problem and will identify that major work needs to be done. The LL has already said he cannot afford this so will just serve us notice rather than pay the repair bill.
Ive just spoken to Mrs R and she has tried to calm me down, I realise I need to be careful with how hard I press him or he will just serve notice and be done with it (though if he cant afford £3k of work Im not sure he could afford to lose over £1k a month in rent!)
Needless to say Mrs R will now be doing the communication work. She has much more charm than me!
OK I get it now.
Do check your tenancy agreement - if it's 12 months assured shorthold you can bully him a bit now! It's probably only 6 though.
I'd get Mrs R to talk to him and try to find some kind of compromise, tell him how much you want to stay but that you won't be able to stay if these problems aren't resolved. If he's hard up he won't want to lose your rent and then have a void whilst he tries to re-let the property - plus he'd probably have to have the work done to re-let anyway so he'd be better off sticking with you - it might be worth reminding him of that!
Good luck!
Do check your tenancy agreement - if it's 12 months assured shorthold you can bully him a bit now! It's probably only 6 though.
I'd get Mrs R to talk to him and try to find some kind of compromise, tell him how much you want to stay but that you won't be able to stay if these problems aren't resolved. If he's hard up he won't want to lose your rent and then have a void whilst he tries to re-let the property - plus he'd probably have to have the work done to re-let anyway so he'd be better off sticking with you - it might be worth reminding him of that!
Good luck!
We're on a 6 month minimum term, hence my need for caution. The 4 months is up on 24th December and thats not a Christmas present I want to get!
The LL just called me back to give me an update which was a refreshing change. I went out of my way to thank him for the effort so far and apologised for causing him so much trouble, just to help keep it amicable and him onside. He said he perfectly understood and would be the same if he were in my shoes etc.
Fingers crossed...
The LL just called me back to give me an update which was a refreshing change. I went out of my way to thank him for the effort so far and apologised for causing him so much trouble, just to help keep it amicable and him onside. He said he perfectly understood and would be the same if he were in my shoes etc.
Fingers crossed...
Piglet, didnt the law change 18 months or so ago so that, despite contractual term, the minimum term could be reduced to 3 months (instead of the 6 it used to be)? If he has a 6 month tenancy, and then holds over, its only 1 month's notice from the tenant?
Anyhoo, back on topic. If I was in the landlord's shoes, I would negotiate a rent free period equal to the cost of the works then let the tenant get on with it (with usual provios; work to be carried out by a professional/to professional standrds etc). But then Im a nice bloke
Anyhoo, back on topic. If I was in the landlord's shoes, I would negotiate a rent free period equal to the cost of the works then let the tenant get on with it (with usual provios; work to be carried out by a professional/to professional standrds etc). But then Im a nice bloke
I think you guys know more about it that my LL does...
If it comes to it then I'll suggest the forgoing of rent for the repairs. But if he cant even afford £3k for emergency repairs then is he going to be able to stump up his own mortgage payments for those 3 months that Im not paying rent? I doubt it...
If it comes to it then I'll suggest the forgoing of rent for the repairs. But if he cant even afford £3k for emergency repairs then is he going to be able to stump up his own mortgage payments for those 3 months that Im not paying rent? I doubt it...
FUBAR said:
Piglet, didnt the law change 18 months or so ago so that, despite contractual term, the minimum term could be reduced to 3 months (instead of the 6 it used to be)? If he has a 6 month tenancy, and then holds over, its only 1 month's notice from the tenant?
Anyhoo, back on topic. If I was in the landlord's shoes, I would negotiate a rent free period equal to the cost of the works then let the tenant get on with it (with usual provios; work to be carried out by a professional/to professional standrds etc). But then Im a nice bloke
Pass on the three months question! I haven't done this type of litigation for a little while so it's possible that I'm out of date - having said that if they've got a six month tenancy then I can't see that the LL has the right to terminate it at three months. Perhaps the minimum period now for an assured shorthold is three months whereas it was six. Anyhoo, back on topic. If I was in the landlord's shoes, I would negotiate a rent free period equal to the cost of the works then let the tenant get on with it (with usual provios; work to be carried out by a professional/to professional standrds etc). But then Im a nice bloke
You're right though that the tenant only has to give one months' notice (at the end or if they hold over) - the LL has to give two months (for both it needs to be ending on a rent day).
I'm not sure though whether as tenant I'd want to pay for the LL's repairs for that amount though, TBH if the LL was in that much trouble I'd probably rather cut my losses and move on.
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