City Of Barcelona Will Soon Be Using Linux

[Rawwr]

sgtBerbatov said:

Or it could be just the thing to revitalise their tech industry. Put the contract out to replace those non-Linux software with Linux software built by Spanish developers from Spain. If done right it would be a marvellous thing, and stick two fingers up to greedy Redmond in the process.

And as someone who made the switch to Linux full time 10 years ago, when the only way to get WiFi working on a laptop was to get the Windows driver and suffer with ndiswrapper, where there is a will there is a way. In the case of Munich, the brown envelopes from Redmond got just too attractive to turn down.

This is a good example of the kind of nonsense that sensible people should avoid.

[Duke of Kidderminster]

Rawwr said:

sgtBerbatov said:

Or it could be just the thing to revitalise their tech industry. Put the contract out to replace those non-Linux software with Linux software built by Spanish developers from Spain. If done right it would be a marvellous thing, and stick two fingers up to greedy Redmond in the process.

And as someone who made the switch to Linux full time 10 years ago, when the only way to get WiFi working on a laptop was to get the Windows driver and suffer with ndiswrapper, where there is a will there is a way. In the case of Munich, the brown envelopes from Redmond got just too attractive to turn down.

This is a good perfect example of the kind of nonsense that sensible people should avoid.

FTFY

[SystemParanoia]

sgtBerbatov said:

Get the Windows driver and suffer with ndiswrapper,

Oh gawd no! .. no! please NO!

[Penelope Stopit]

Rawwr said:

Penelope Stopit said:

There is one thing for certain if barcelona does make the change. Yesterday I updated Debian Linux and there was no waiting for an update server connection, all the updates downloaded and installed very quickly without failed failed failed........ appearing anywhere
Barcelona could save many hours

Edit - Perhaps someone will be along in a moment to inform me that windows 10 updates without problems

I think your problem - as highlighted by most of your combination of pro-Linux and anti-Microsoft posts - is that you have a very narrow view, perhaps only thinking of a single system. There are some very experienced Systems and Infrastructure guys on here and I'm fairly confident that the majority of them will accept that there's a place for everything; you use the right tool for the job.

A single home user using a single installation of Debian is one thing. A company or organisation having to manage tens-of-thousands of clients across many different locations all over the world and having to account for every variation of OS you can imagine, is quite another.

You have to be agnostic in this game or you'll ultimately drive yourself insane trying to come up with arguments to defend pointless tribalism.

Let me explain something, I am learning Debian Linux and up to now have had a good experience, I am posting this reply from a Windows 7 machine Why a Windows 7 machine you may ask, I could not believe that a company as big as Microsoft were capable of marketing Windows 8 and then rapidly ditching it for Windows 10 that doesn't work as I would expect an OS to work, privacy comes to mind. I have much knowledge about computing and computers yet this knowledge is nothing compaired to some others that post here. Now perhaps just for one minute you will put yourself in my position - 2 years ago I repaired 3 x friends Windows 7 computers over a period of about 2 weeks, I am no expert at repairing computers but do often get there in the end, it took me longer to clean install and update Windows 7 on 3 computers than it did to fix them

I cringe when anyone mentions Windows updates, I have had many hours waisted away due to Microsofts pathetic update system and that's putting it politely and lightly, I have had my fill with Microsoft and am hoping that by the time windows 7 is to be binned I will be a very happy Debian Linux chappy

Microsoft have pissed me right off - I paid full wack for windows 7 and Microsoft didn't highlight the fact that updating it would be an ongoing nightmare, Microsoft never altered their update procedure so that I could save all updates to a USB for future use, I do know that Microsoft had some 3rd party updates software warned off for storing and distributing update files

It seems to me that you watch out for me mentioning Linux and feel the need to lecture me about Microsoft. The reality is that I don't very often post about Debian Linux and I do use Windows 7 and like it...sometimes

You think I have a problem with Windows, I know I do. I can't even claim the price of my Windows updates bandwidth back, I like many have been had over

[sgtBerbatov]

Rawwr said:

sgtBerbatov said:

Or it could be just the thing to revitalise their tech industry. Put the contract out to replace those non-Linux software with Linux software built by Spanish developers from Spain. If done right it would be a marvellous thing, and stick two fingers up to greedy Redmond in the process.

And as someone who made the switch to Linux full time 10 years ago, when the only way to get WiFi working on a laptop was to get the Windows driver and suffer with ndiswrapper, where there is a will there is a way. In the case of Munich, the brown envelopes from Redmond got just too attractive to turn down.

This is a good example of the kind of nonsense that sensible people should avoid.

Duke of Kidderminster said:

Rawwr said:

sgtBerbatov said:

Or it could be just the thing to revitalise their tech industry. Put the contract out to replace those non-Linux software with Linux software built by Spanish developers from Spain. If done right it would be a marvellous thing, and stick two fingers up to greedy Redmond in the process.

And as someone who made the switch to Linux full time 10 years ago, when the only way to get WiFi working on a laptop was to get the Windows driver and suffer with ndiswrapper, where there is a will there is a way. In the case of Munich, the brown envelopes from Redmond got just too attractive to turn down.

This is a good perfect example of the kind of nonsense that sensible people should avoid.

FTFY

"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."

Fairly apt with those two responses.

[Rawwr]

Penelope Stopit said:

I could not believe that a company as big as Microsoft were capable of marketing Windows 8 and then rapidly ditching it for Windows 10

x64 timeline of Windows:

2003: XP
2006: Vista
2009: 7
2012: 8
2015: 10

Every three years isn't bad and arguably better than Debian's 2-year cycle.

Penelope Stopit said:

that doesn't work as I would expect an OS to work, privacy comes to mind.

In what respect? Be specific.

Penelope Stopit said:

I have much knowledge about computing and computers yet this knowledge is nothing compared to some others that post here. Now perhaps just for one minute you will put yourself in my position - 2 years ago I repaired 3 x friends Windows 7 computers over a period of about 2 weeks, I am no expert at repairing computers but do often get there in the end, it took me longer to clean install and update Windows 7 on 3 computers than it did to fix them

Two years ago you installed 7-years worth of updates on an OS that reached EoL the year before. It is not to be unexpected. No, Windows Update is not a perfect system and accounts for millions of variations but for the majority, when it was in its production life-cycle, Windows 7 was a pretty good iteration and hey, at least it was still supported until 2015, even it was a bit clunky by the end.

Penelope Stopit said:

I cringe when anyone mentions Windows updates, I have had many hours waisted away due to Microsofts pathetic update system and that's putting it politely and lightly, I have had my fill with Microsoft and am hoping that by the time windows 7 is to be binned I will be a very happy Debian Linux chappy

Freedom of choice is a good thing but again, Windows Update is not a terrible system for what it does and what is has to account for. Also, Windows 7 was binned 3 years and 2 days ago.

Penelope Stopit said:

Microsoft have pissed me right off - I paid full wack for windows 7 and Microsoft didn't highlight the fact that updating it would be an ongoing nightmare,

How did you think updates worked? An exploit gets discovered and then it gets patched. I can't think of a way they could release all their patches on the day of release. This applies to every OS ever.

Penelope Stopit said:

Microsoft never altered their update procedure so that I could save all updates to a USB for future use, I do know that Microsoft had some 3rd party updates software warned off for storing and distributing update files

When you look at the rate and method of supersedence and retirement in Microsoft Update, you'll see why it would be difficult to apply a moment in time snapshot of current updates. Again, this is similar to every other OS. Also, the update procedure has changed a lot over the years. You may not have seen the changes on the front end but the update system has been quite dynamic. In the case of Windows 10 its been a little too dynamic for my tastes but that's another issue.

Penelope Stopit said:

It seems to me that you watch out for me mentioning Linux and feel the need to lecture me about Microsoft. The reality is that I don't very often post about Debian Linux and I do use Windows 7 and like it...sometimes

You think I have a problem with Windows, I know I do. I can't even claim the price of my Windows updates bandwidth back, I like many have been had over

I read around 90% of the threads in this particular area of the forum and I always try to chip in when I see OS wars developing. It just so happens that some of the posts I massively degree with have been posted by you. As I said earlier in the thread, it's far better to be open-minded and agnostic rather than devout.

The fact you're still referencing Windows 7, which is coming up to 9 years old, and complaining about it is a good example of why I have issues with a lot of the things you say. If you want to do a true comparison, why not use whatever the version of Debian was in 2009? Lenny? It's like buying a new Ford Focus and saying how much more you prefer it to that rubbish old Ford Escort you used to have.

Realistically, how does Stretch compare to 10? As a desktop OS for an average home user? I personally think 10 edges ahead slightly and if someone was to ask me what OS they should use at home, I'd most likely recommend 10. Do I think Stretch is bad? No, not at all, it's fantastic for what it does and I totally understand anyone who wants to use it. I'm not going to sing the praises of either of them.

[Rawwr]

sgtBerbatov said:

"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."

Fairly apt with those two responses.

So the accusation about Microsoft, brown envelopes and a city? Going to pop that in a letter to Microsoft's legal department? Or would you prefer to stick to political arguments?

[ZesPak]

sgtBerbatov said:

"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."

Fairly apt with those two responses.

As for greedy Redmond, yes, it's a company that wants to make money. As opposed to all the other tech firms. They should get their printers from known philanthropists like HP or Lexmark. And their hardware from MSI and Samsung.

Or are you suggesting they have some locals solder the motherboards?

I bet they buy their cars from evil multinationals as well as opposed to assembling them themselves

[gavsdavs]

TonyRPH said:

gavsdavs said:

Good post. Except Solaris, which is awesome if you're into that kind of thing a masochist

ftfy

Rawwr said:

gavsdavs said:

Good post. Except Solaris, which is just f*cking bullsh*t

EFA

Having looked after both professionally and personally for 20 odd years, there is a reason that you can refer to Linux as "Bedroomware". Because it's coded by people who spend lots of their time in their soiled underpants in their parents lofts/basements. You get what you pay for. Well, at least you used to, now you're stuck with Linux and all that entails

[TonyRPH]

gavsdavs said:

Having looked after both professionally and personally for 20 odd years, there is a reason that you can refer to Linux as "Bedroomware". Because it's coded by people who spend lots of their time in their soiled underpants in their parents lofts/basements. You get what you pay for. Well, at least you used to, now you're stuck with Linux and all that entails

I can't believe you wrote that! I'm sure Linus Torvalds and the myriad other Linux developers will be more than enamoured by your comments.

I too have supported Solaris, Sco Unix and Aix over the years, and Linux is as good (and indeed better in later versions) as any of them.

Linux is certainly far more admin friendly than any of the above.

I think your comments are quite unfounded.

[SystemParanoia]

....still cursing w10.. every damn time



...throws hands up in the air in despair..

[grumbledoak]

SystemParanoia said:

....still cursing w10.. every damn time

Check your antivirus isn't stopping it.

[Jimmy Recard]

Penelope Stopit said:

There is one thing for certain if barcelona does make the change. Yesterday I updated Debian Linux and there was no waiting for an update server connection, all the updates downloaded and installed very quickly without failed failed failed........ appearing anywhere
Barcelona could save many hours

Edit - Perhaps someone will be along in a moment to inform me that windows 10 updates without problems

I have an Ubuntu PC and a Windows 7 one. I never get the failure notice on the Windows one, but I get it pretty much every time on the Ubuntu one

[randlemarcus]

grumbledoak said:

SystemParanoia said:

....still cursing w10.. every damn time

Check your antivirus isn't stopping it.

And move her away from Suicide Linux

[wombleh]

They seem to already be using mostly cloud and browser based software so the move to Linux will be pretty straightforward. Things like open-xchange. They could use whatever OS they want.

The browser based version of office 365 is really basic, they offer a full desktop install which is what the majority of office users will need and it's not available on Linux. You wouldn't run an enterprise on WINE as enterprises need someone to blame when their crap outsourced idiots break things and a mailing list or forum won't cut it. I love Linux and use it on all my systems for years but I wouldn't put it on client desktops in most cases.

[Penelope Stopit]

Rawwr said:

I read around 90% of the threads in this particular area of the forum and I always try to chip in when I see OS wars developing. It just so happens that some of the posts I massively degree with have been posted by you. As I said earlier in the thread, it's far better to be open-minded and agnostic rather than devout.

The fact you're still referencing Windows 7, which is coming up to 9 years old, and complaining about it is a good example of why I have issues with a lot of the things you say. If you want to do a true comparison, why not use whatever the version of Debian was in 2009? Lenny? It's like buying a new Ford Focus and saying how much more you prefer it to that rubbish old Ford Escort you used to have.

Realistically, how does Stretch compare to 10? As a desktop OS for an average home user? I personally think 10 edges ahead slightly and if someone was to ask me what OS they should use at home, I'd most likely recommend 10. Do I think Stretch is bad? No, not at all, it's fantastic for what it does and I totally understand anyone who wants to use it. I'm not going to sing the praises of either of them.

Is this some sort of a joke?
I'm not buying what you're selling
Are you trying to tell me that a year 2017 Windows 7 machine will not run as well as it did in 2010 or whatever?
My Windows 7 OS doesn't know that Microsoft stopped supporting it and only gives it security updates
My Windows 7 OS is oblivious to what Bill and his merry men are up to and is running as well if not better than it ever has done

Moving on, in the not to distant future I will be up to speed with Debian Linux and only be using Windows 7 for a few difficult tasks

I forgot to mention earlier that Windows 10 screwed up my partners laptop, Windows 7 was reinstalled, I have a hunch that the problem was caused by forced updates, the laptop would have been fine if Microsoft didn't keep pushing the Windows 10 upgrade at it

[Penelope Stopit]

Jimmy Recard said:

I have an Ubuntu PC and a Windows 7 one. I never get the failure notice on the Windows one, but I get it pretty much every time on the Ubuntu one

That problem is very likely to be that you have never upgraded.
You are running Ubuntu one and the latest version is Ubuntu 16.04.3

[Ynox]

buggalugs said:

Ps - OSX isn't a competitor to Windows because the NHS or a big bank isn't going to suddenly say hay I've got a great idea let's start replacing our machines with ones that do the same job but cost three times as much and that nobody knows how to support and manage at this scale.

Edited by buggalugs on Sunday 14th January 22:39

Not a bank, but I work for an IT company with 85k employees. Approximately 50% or so of machines are Macs now.

Cost wise there's not a huge amount in it if you compare like for like (so a high end Lenovo machine). If you're buying cheap crap then sure, the macs are more expensive though!

[SystemParanoia]

randlemarcus said:

grumbledoak said:

SystemParanoia said:

....still cursing w10.. every damn time

Check your antivirus isn't stopping it.

And move her away from Suicide Linux

No AV, almost nothing installed, and cant update to Creators, or the one before that due to lack of HDD space.
I have no idea why she went out a bought this abortion of a computer on a whim.

I'll try another clean install over the wkend, if that still fails to let me install drivers then its chromeOS time. i seriously cant be bothered

[Rawwr]

Penelope Stopit said:

I'm not buying what you're selling
Are you trying to tell me that a year 2017 Windows 7 machine will not run as well as it did in 2010 or whatever?

I'm not selling anything.

And yes.