Weapons-grade home WiFi suggestions

[dmsims]

2btoo just get Deco with gigabit ports

[silentbrown]

I'd go with Unifi - Dream Machine router + access points running over PoE.

I just seems to last, and the older bits work fine alongside the newer bits.

[somouk]

As has been said, Unifi or Omada or even deco units would do the job.

The Omada stuff is good and I got rid of Unifi to replace with Omada as it is more sensible price point and they don't gatekeep functions like Unifi seem to. The beauty of these system is that you setup the controller then just plug stuff in and it will configure it, very little messing about once configured.

Device hand off when on a proper mesh system works a lot better too and you get better visibility of what devices are doing on the network so can understand where you may need better coverage or to provide some QOS etc.

[RizzoTheRat]

Only thing I'd add to the above is that Unfi and Omada are aimed at the small business or expert user, and can do a lot of stuff that the average home user probably doesn't need. The TP-Link's lower spec Deco range, Netgear's Orbi, or Lynksys Velop will give you a decent wifi network at a lower cost and more easy setup. If you want an outdoor one though you probably want to be looking at the higher spec systems, eg Omada has an outdoor unit, Deco doesn't.

[Captain_Morgan]

RizzoTheRat said:

Only thing I'd add to the above is that Unfi and Omada are aimed at the small business or expert user, and can do a lot of stuff that the average home user probably doesn't need. The TP-Link's lower spec Deco range, Netgear's Orbi, or Lynksys Velop will give you a decent wifi network at a lower cost and more easy setup. If you want an outdoor one though you probably want to be looking at the higher spec systems, eg Omada has an outdoor unit, Deco doesn't.

IMHO there isn’t much between a basic setup of the Omada / unifi, also here in the U.K. at least the price differential has got a lot closer these days (mesh systems seem to have jumped).

Also you can add a external accesspoint to a mesh system, it doesn’t even need to be from the same manufacturer as it would be managed separately.

[2Btoo]

Guys,

Dragging up an old-ish thread as I am starting to go down the rabbithole with this one.

The Omada looks like a beefier system than the Deco one. The Omada systems use a particular type of WiFi point (EAP points) and a controller, which can be either software or hardware. EAP points seem to be available from about £40 and a software controller is free. I presume that setting up an Omada network is more involved than simply plugging a few of these EAP access points into my unmanaged switch and spinning up the controller software on a spare RaspPi? What else would I need to make all this happen?

The Deco systems seems similarly confusing; there are dozens of different Deco hardware items around. If I have the infrastructure to run a Cat5e backhall from each one to the unmanaged switch then it doesn't seem to make sense to buy Deco points with the facility for data-over-power within them, but is it simply a case that they all have this anyway?

Thanks for your help.

[RizzoTheRat]

Can't help with the Omada, but with the Deco's, yea, there's loads. They cover a range of features so check what you want, eg the older ones don't have Wifi 6, the E series ones only have 100Mb ethernet, etc. Some have powerline connectivity that is useless to you if you can get ethernet everywhere, but I have a P9 as my master node and another in the Kitchen where I can't run an ethernet cable to, and another P9 and an M4 in other rooms that do have ethernet for backhaul
They actually have quite a good site to compare them all
https://www.tp-link.com/us/deco-mesh-wifi/product-...
Setup wise they're really easy with a phone app you use for the settings. Omada gives you more control but I've never found the need to do fancier things than I can with the Deco.

[bodhi]

We're 18 months into our Deco M5 set up and I really am struggling to fault it. We're with Sky so only have them in AP mode so we don't get the full benefit, however all I want them to do is give me good WiFi in ours 30's semi, and other than a strange dead spot in the kitchen, they've done that with aplomb.

[Captain_Morgan]

2Btoo said:

Guys,

Dragging up an old-ish thread as I am starting to go down the rabbithole with this one.

The Omada looks like a beefier system than the Deco one. The Omada systems use a particular type of WiFi point (EAP points) and a controller, which can be either software or hardware. EAP points seem to be available from about £40 and a software controller is free. I presume that setting up an Omada network is more involved than simply plugging a few of these EAP access points into my unmanaged switch and spinning up the controller software on a spare RaspPi? What else would I need to make all this happen?

The Deco systems seems similarly confusing; there are dozens of different Deco hardware items around. If I have the infrastructure to run a Cat5e backhall from each one to the unmanaged switch then it doesn't seem to make sense to buy Deco points with the facility for data-over-power within them, but is it simply a case that they all have this anyway?

Thanks for your help.

I use Omada & only a single eap ap, I think your costs are a little out iirc eap225’ a start the usable range @ ~£70 each.

It really depends on if you are looking to use the more advanced features of the Omada platform as to if/what controller to use, if you have a interest in the more powerful fw rules, segmented networks so you keep IoT devices / cctv isolated from your main/trusted network etc, etc. Then you will want a controller active 24/7, the same if you want metrics & logs or to use some advanced wifi features such as fast roaming.

If not you only need to keep the controller active while configuring/troubleshooting the ap’s & it can easily be spun up on a Mac, pc or Linux host as needed.

That said tp-link have just released a new aio device with the firewall/router/poe switch (8poe + 4non?)/hardware based controller for ~£180 which looks a good value proposition if you where thinking about a pi & poe switch already.

The down side is really the form factor of the ap’s as they are designed for ceiling mounting, they can be wall or table top mounted but this will have some range impacts, however this is the same for all ceiling mount ap’s.

Then you get into the question of what ap’s, where & that’s a factor of the environment you’re installing them in, for example I have a single eap225 in my loft because the loft is open & allows the wireless beam to establish before interacting with the 1st-gf walls, because traditional wooden floors & joists are much more transparent to wifi than walls I get 500-600Mbps on 1st & majority of the gf in our 1900’s three bed detached with gf extension.

[2Btoo]

Guys,

Thanks for the answers. I've done some more digging and seem to be getting to know more.

I think I am tossing up between a Deco M5 setup with three points and an Omada setup. I certainly don't need the extra features of the Omada rig but the prices intrigue me. I think the only other option would be the X20 Deco system, but I can't understand what this would give me that the M5 one doesn't.

Rizzo and Bodhi - thanks for the real life experience. All helpful.

Captain_Morgan, thanks also. It seems that there is an Omada compatible EAP110 device, which runs 802.11n and costs just under £40 from CPC Farnell. Link here:

https://cpc.farnell.com/tp-link/eap110/access-poin...

If I can run three of these and configure them with the Omada controller app on a RaspPi then I'd be a whisker cheaper than the X5 system (which is about £155) and have a better system - non? What am I missing?

Thanks for your input.

[silentbrown]

2Btoo said:

If I can run three of these and configure them with the Omada controller app on a RaspPi then I'd be a whisker cheaper than the X5 system (which is about £155) and have a better system - non? What am I missing?

How are you planning to mount/power them?

PoE makes things a lot simpler if you're already running LAN cables to each one. Deco doesn't support PoE, the EAP110 only has non-standard 'passive' PoE.

[Captain_Morgan]

2Btoo said:

Captain_Morgan, thanks also. It seems that there is an Omada compatible EAP110 device, which runs 802.11n and costs just under £40 from CPC Farnell. Link here:

https://cpc.farnell.com/tp-link/eap110/access-poin...

If I can run three of these and configure them with the Omada controller app on a RaspPi then I'd be a whisker cheaper than the X5 system (which is about £155) and have a better system - non? What am I missing?

Thanks for your input.

Have you compared the specifications of the 110 & 225?

One only has 802.11N / wifi4 / only covers the 2.4GHz frq / has only 10/100 ethernet / rated to 300Mbps which you’ll never see because of the 10/100 ethernet.

The other is 802.11AC / wifi5 / covers the 2.4 & 5GHz frq / has gigabit ethernet / rated to 450Mbps 2.4GHz 800Mbps 5GHz.

[RizzoTheRat]

2Btoo said:

I think I am tossing up between a Deco M5 setup with three points and an Omada setup. I certainly don't need the extra features of the Omada rig but the prices intrigue me. I think the only other option would be the X20 Deco system, but I can't understand what this would give me that the M5 one doesn't.

The X20 is WiFi 6, giving faster speeds and capable of connecting more devices than the older M5, plus possibly more future proofing if future devices drop support for older systems.
In reality WiFi5 is plenty fast enough for most home users (I'm on a 250 mbps internet connection and get that speed in most rooms of the house, the only time I'd use a faster connection is transferring files to and from my NAS), but if unless there's a massive price difference I'd go for WiFi 6 over WiFi 5 just because it's several years newer.

WiFi 5 vs 6 is also a question if you go for Omada as they also have older Wifi 5 devices in the range.

[2Btoo]

Thanks for the answers chaps.

silentbrown said:

How are you planning to mount/power them?

PoE makes things a lot simpler if you're already running LAN cables to each one. Deco doesn't support PoE, the EAP110 only has non-standard 'passive' PoE.

They will sit on a shelf of be mounted on a wall, depending upon the device and location. No problems with powering them; there is mains just next to all ethernet sockets in the house.

Captain_Morgan said:

Have you compared the specifications of the 110 & 225?

One only has 802.11N / wifi4 / only covers the 2.4GHz frq / has only 10/100 ethernet / rated to 300Mbps which you’ll never see because of the 10/100 ethernet.

The other is 802.11AC / wifi5 / covers the 2.4 & 5GHz frq / has gigabit ethernet / rated to 450Mbps 2.4GHz 800Mbps 5GHz.

Thanks CM, your input here is appreciated.

Yes, it looks like the EAC110 is further backwards in tech than the EAP225. But it's much cheaper - £40 as opposed to £70.

So I guess I am choosing between two or three EAP110's (£80-£120) for more primative WiFi tech but better control.

OR

Two or three EAP225's (£140-£210) for better WiFi tech and better control

OR

An M5 system with three points (£150 or so).

We don't have any devices that use 5Ghz that I am aware of, but Mrs 2BToo will be buying a new 'phone soon and the replacement will probably have 5Ghz. How much difference does it make?

RizzoTheRat said:

The X20 is WiFi 6, giving faster speeds and capable of connecting more devices than the older M5, plus possibly more future proofing if future devices drop support for older systems.
In reality WiFi5 is plenty fast enough for most home users (I'm on a 250 mbps internet connection and get that speed in most rooms of the house, the only time I'd use a faster connection is transferring files to and from my NAS), but if unless there's a massive price difference I'd go for WiFi 6 over WiFi 5 just because it's several years newer.

WiFi 5 vs 6 is also a question if you go for Omada as they also have older Wifi 5 devices in the range.

Thanks Rizzo - this is helpful stuff. My BB tickles around the 47Mbps down and maybe 5Mbps up mark and I have no desire to have anything quicker. (I don't game, I don't really watch online videos, I don't host stuff for other people .... my requirements could perhaps be met bu a dial-up model but they don't exist any more: ) This exercise is to get a reliable WiFi signal everywhere in the house but I am really not that fussed about speed!

Perhaps I am leaning towards the Deco M5 solution. Omada offers far more than I need and simple is sometimes best.

[RizzoTheRat]

2Btoo said:

Perhaps I am leaning towards the Deco M5 solution. Omada offers far more than I need and simple is sometimes best.

Also think about form factor and where you plan to place them. The M4 and M5 are essentially the same but different shape. The M4 is a cylinder about 20cm high, so designed to sit on a shelf. The M5 is a disk, much wider but only 4cm high so better for mounting on the wall or ceiling.

[silentbrown]

Captain_Morgan said:

One only has 802.11N / wifi4 / only covers the 2.4GHz frq / has only 10/100 ethernet / rated to 300Mbps which you’ll never see because of the 10/100 ethernet.

This only qualifies for the thread title if the weapon under discussion is a wooden club.

[Blown2CV]

this reminded me. This may not practically be an issue, but I explored it a bit recently when looking to try and 'future proof' a home install...

Most domestic infrastructure cannot cope with the advent of wifi 6e. Theoretically, the standard can cope with significantly higher than gigabit speeds, up to a maximum of 5.4Gbps. The latest laptops (well i've only looked at macbooks) are starting to support 6e. So, even though there would be attenuation and noise etc between user device and wifi6e node, you'd still expect that the weakest link by far would then be the LAN. Likely you're not cabled to support faster than gigabit speeds - you'd need cat6a and above for that. For that sort of cable standard, the wires tend to be very hard to work with, and it wouldn't be an easy job to just pull them through the exist cable routes or conduits. Switches etc suitable for the domestic setting are not yet (when i last looked anyway) supporting faster than gigabit. Weirdly some mesh setups which support 6e ports only have gigabit ethernet ports!

You might say well why does it fking matter as it's not like you can make use of that speed anyway... well... I accept that it would be largely pointless today, but this is the weapons grade thread... and also it matters to me because of nerdery and thinking ahead a few years. Some domestic FttP providers are also now offering 2-gig products. I've even seen 10-gig for business fibre.

Maybe the whole point of wifi 6e is just to end up with something more like gigabit that actually more commonly performs like gigabit than wifi 6, because the theoretical speeds are way way above what you'd end up with in real life.

if that is the case then getting excited about speeds faster than 1gig is several years premature..?

[troc]

Don’t forget that there is more to networking than just device to internet. You can also have decide to decode communication within your own network and you might have many devices communicating concurrently. In such a situation, having WiFi devices which can support ultra high bandwidths means that the intranet communications won’t affect the ability for your devices to access the intranet.

WiFi always used to be the bottleneck, especially with multiple devices connected to a single AP. This is not the case anymore with newer gear. Very rarely do you need more than a few hundred mbps to the internet but that can quickly slow down if multiple devices are all trying at once. Having a WiFi that is significantly faster and more capable than your internet speed will essentially make sure you are using it most efficiently.

[RizzoTheRat]

Blown2CV said:

Likely you're not cabled to support faster than gigabit speeds - you'd need cat6a and above for that. For that sort of cable standard, the wires tend to be very hard to work with, and it wouldn't be an easy job to just pull them through the exist cable routes or conduits. Switches etc suitable for the domestic setting are not yet (when i last looked anyway) supporting faster than gigabit. Weirdly some mesh setups which support 6e ports only have gigabit ethernet ports!

One of my colleagues did a fairly major house refurb a year or two back and fitted Cat 7 everywhere. Way more than he'll need for the foreseeable future but it didn't cost an insane amount more and he's very well future proofed.
I just pulled Cat 5e through the existing phone cable ducts because it's flexible enough to get through easily and realistically I don't actually need anything faster, but if I was going for a professional rewire I'd go higher spec too.

[troc]

You can usually get 2-2.5 gig through cat 5e, especially in the fairly short-ish runs that you find in houses.