Three UK - 4G Home Broadband - any users here?

[Gad-Westy]

FunkyGibbon said:

Gad-Westy said:

I'm thinking that I could run a second 'backup' 3/smartie Sim just to try to smooth things out a bit and provide some redundancy.

I'm not particularly techie so I really don't want something that is going to require too much in the way of set up if I can avoid it.

I've not done this with unifi (I have TP-Link Omada) - but if the unifi router has multiple WAN ports then it should simply be a matter of plugging a second modem in (I had 2 B818s, one on Virgin and one on Three).

You should also be able to setup load-balancing or failover rules (again, not done this on unifi, but would be amazed if you cannot)

Cheers. On the omada, how user friendly is the load balancing and failover set up?

Today's issue. This prevents me from establishing remote VPN connection and I can't make calls. Sick of this at present.

[Murph7355]

Gad-Westy said:

I seem to recall reading about someone on here using two 4g modems paired via a unifi gizmo. Have a few questions regarding the set up if it is someone here.

Basically we have EE 4g via a B818 and fired around the house using Unifi AP's.

Three main issues:

1) It works well maybe 80% of the time but that is not enough for WFH. Having far too many embarrassing calls.
2) Uploads speeds are often unusable. Sub 1mbps
3) I don't know whether we have been throttled at any point but EE's FUP concerns me.

I'm thinking that I could run a second 'backup' 3/smartie Sim just to try to smooth things out a bit and provide some redundancy.

I'm not particularly techie so I really don't want something that is going to require too much in the way of set up if I can avoid it.

You have a couple of options...

• Unifi Security Gateway. I have one of these using my EE 4G connection and my ADSL2 broadband. With EE's 4G broadband you will need to do some tweakery on the B818 (due to EE's IPv6 implementation/Unifi security gateway not playing nicely). I've documented elsewhere on here what to do - it's pretty straightforward. Finding it was the hard part

Unifi's GUI setup for load balancing/failover is pretty basic. You can do a *lot* more via the command line interface, but that starts to get complicated, and you need to think very carefully about how you want it to work. e.g. you mention upload links are poor on your 4G connection....would you want to set up the "other" link if your standard one dropped below a certain speed? If you did, what if the "other" link was also poor at the same time?

Thinking this through very carefully and keeping it all as simple as you can is key IMO.

• The B818 can also take in a second WAN connection. You could use this and have the B818 handle *all* routing on your network. So EE sim in the B818, 3/Smarty Sim in ANOther modem/router (you will need an additional one of these in any scenario) and plug that modem/router into the B818.

Whilst trying to sort out my Unifi Security Gateway I used the B818 in this mode a few times and it works nicely, but tbh I didn't tinker with any of the failover/load balancing settings. The user interface is more basic than the Unifi one so I suspect the options are going to be less flexible. There are (frustratingly) hidden settings on it, but no reference guide that I have been able to find that show what they all are (the only one found was to cover the IPv6 issue...).

• A third option would be to get ANOther router that could also take two inputs and use that for failover/load balancing.

The first thing I would recommend doing is trying to get at least one connection that is reliable/as performant as you need it. What sort of downloads are you getting from the B818/EE combo? Have you tried putting the router elsewhere in the house? Is anything else in the house chewing bandwidth?

Failover/load balancing will get complicated if you're trying to account for more complicated/variable scenarios, and may not give desirable results.

I'm not sure I'd use another mobile connection as failover/load balancing either. The sort of things that impact one (mast locality, weather, congestion etc) may well impact the other just as badly too. And two poor connections do not add up to one good one

[Gad-Westy]

Murph7355 said:

Gad-Westy said:

I seem to recall reading about someone on here using two 4g modems paired via a unifi gizmo. Have a few questions regarding the set up if it is someone here.

Basically we have EE 4g via a B818 and fired around the house using Unifi AP's.

Three main issues:

1) It works well maybe 80% of the time but that is not enough for WFH. Having far too many embarrassing calls.
2) Uploads speeds are often unusable. Sub 1mbps
3) I don't know whether we have been throttled at any point but EE's FUP concerns me.

I'm thinking that I could run a second 'backup' 3/smartie Sim just to try to smooth things out a bit and provide some redundancy.

I'm not particularly techie so I really don't want something that is going to require too much in the way of set up if I can avoid it.

You have a couple of options...

• Unifi Security Gateway. I have one of these using my EE 4G connection and my ADSL2 broadband. With EE's 4G broadband you will need to do some tweakery on the B818 (due to EE's IPv6 implementation/Unifi security gateway not playing nicely). I've documented elsewhere on here what to do - it's pretty straightforward. Finding it was the hard part

Unifi's GUI setup for load balancing/failover is pretty basic. You can do a *lot* more via the command line interface, but that starts to get complicated, and you need to think very carefully about how you want it to work. e.g. you mention upload links are poor on your 4G connection....would you want to set up the "other" link if your standard one dropped below a certain speed? If you did, what if the "other" link was also poor at the same time?

Thinking this through very carefully and keeping it all as simple as you can is key IMO.

• The B818 can also take in a second WAN connection. You could use this and have the B818 handle *all* routing on your network. So EE sim in the B818, 3/Smarty Sim in ANOther modem/router (you will need an additional one of these in any scenario) and plug that modem/router into the B818.

Whilst trying to sort out my Unifi Security Gateway I used the B818 in this mode a few times and it works nicely, but tbh I didn't tinker with any of the failover/load balancing settings. The user interface is more basic than the Unifi one so I suspect the options are going to be less flexible. There are (frustratingly) hidden settings on it, but no reference guide that I have been able to find that show what they all are (the only one found was to cover the IPv6 issue...).

• A third option would be to get ANOther router that could also take two inputs and use that for failover/load balancing.

The first thing I would recommend doing is trying to get at least one connection that is reliable/as performant as you need it. What sort of downloads are you getting from the B818/EE combo? Have you tried putting the router elsewhere in the house? Is anything else in the house chewing bandwidth?

Failover/load balancing will get complicated if you're trying to account for more complicated/variable scenarios, and may not give desirable results.

I'm not sure I'd use another mobile connection as failover/load balancing either. The sort of things that impact one (mast locality, weather, congestion etc) may well impact the other just as badly too. And two poor connections do not add up to one good one

Many thanks for this. Lots to chew through, very grateful.

Just to answer some questions. Download speeds normally pretty good, in the 40-70 range. Upload anything from 0-25.

Since I posted I've been doing a couple of experiments and have found some improvement but it's always hard to pin point whether it's something I've done or we just had an EE issue.

I've found that there are locations in the house where upload speed is much improved with compromised download speed. I find this strange but maybe connecting to a different tower?

I've also been experimenting with taking the Unifi AP's out of the equation. Currently they're set up to mesh with a long term view of hard wiring them. There are 3 at present with 1 plugged directly into router and the others meshed from there. With the two meshed ones disconnected, I'm getting much better upload speeds regardless of which device I'm connected to. Issue there is that I need at least one for coverage but that seems like an avenue to investigate.

I need to repeat the above experiments to see if they are repeatable but while I have a connection I better get on with some work while I can!

Biggest headache really is that every time I think I have it cracked, a few days later, it all goes pete tong again and I'm back on here asking about other options! Rally need something more bulletproof. Been looking at starlink as well but I have reservations about spending that much on something a little unknown.

[DuckSauce]

I've just switched to Virginmedia, so my B818 will be available if anyone is interested

It's less than a year old and worked perfectly in my old house, but as I can now get high speed fibre, it's no longer needed

[sly fox]

Given how awful Virgin Media is - i'd hang onto your router as a backup if i were you.

[FunkyGibbon]

Gad-Westy said:

Cheers. On the omada, how user friendly is the load balancing and failover set up?

Dead easy. For load balancing you input the "max" download and upload for each WAN connection and it will pro-rate the traffic based on the ratios. I said "max" in quotes because you could if you want make one WAN primarily download and the other primarily upload by tweaking the figures, should you wish.

For failover you put in a ping response time and if the response exceeds that of a specified number of times, it will failover to the other WAN. I'm not sure (and can't test at the moment as I only have one WAN connected), if it will auto fall back to the primary WAN.

If I get time next week I'll dig out my B818 and give it a test.

[DuckSauce]

sly fox said:

Given how awful Virgin Media is - i'd hang onto your router as a backup if i were you.

I was with VM for years previously and had no issues. Sadly the house move meant that my Three sim wasn't up to it, was barely getting 2mb down and 0.2mb up, so the current 220mb down is absolutely amazing!

[Murph7355]

Gad-Westy said:

Many thanks for this. Lots to chew through, very grateful.

Just to answer some questions. Download speeds normally pretty good, in the 40-70 range. Upload anything from 0-25.

Since I posted I've been doing a couple of experiments and have found some improvement but it's always hard to pin point whether it's something I've done or we just had an EE issue.

I've found that there are locations in the house where upload speed is much improved with compromised download speed. I find this strange but maybe connecting to a different tower?

I've also been experimenting with taking the Unifi AP's out of the equation. Currently they're set up to mesh with a long term view of hard wiring them. There are 3 at present with 1 plugged directly into router and the others meshed from there. With the two meshed ones disconnected, I'm getting much better upload speeds regardless of which device I'm connected to. Issue there is that I need at least one for coverage but that seems like an avenue to investigate.

I need to repeat the above experiments to see if they are repeatable but while I have a connection I better get on with some work while I can! ...

Definitely repeat the tests.

First thing you need to do is work out whether it's your LAN causing the issue. It sounds like that's possible. Best way to do this initially would be to plug a laptop directly into the LAN port of the B818. See how quick everything is that way.

If you can isolate any issue there, then reposition the device to give you the best compromise up/down...then if you still have an issue, give EE a call.

Both Ubiquiti and EE technical support have been very good IME (though are you based in Eire? May be different there).

[Gad-Westy]

FunkyGibbon said:

Dead easy. For load balancing you input the "max" download and upload for each WAN connection and it will pro-rate the traffic based on the ratios. I said "max" in quotes because you could if you want make one WAN primarily download and the other primarily upload by tweaking the figures, should you wish.

For failover you put in a ping response time and if the response exceeds that of a specified number of times, it will failover to the other WAN. I'm not sure (and can't test at the moment as I only have one WAN connected), if it will auto fall back to the primary WAN.

If I get time next week I'll dig out my B818 and give it a test.

Fantastic thanks. Would be great if you could.

[Gad-Westy]

Murph7355 said:

Gad-Westy said:

Many thanks for this. Lots to chew through, very grateful.

Just to answer some questions. Download speeds normally pretty good, in the 40-70 range. Upload anything from 0-25.

Since I posted I've been doing a couple of experiments and have found some improvement but it's always hard to pin point whether it's something I've done or we just had an EE issue.

I've found that there are locations in the house where upload speed is much improved with compromised download speed. I find this strange but maybe connecting to a different tower?

I've also been experimenting with taking the Unifi AP's out of the equation. Currently they're set up to mesh with a long term view of hard wiring them. There are 3 at present with 1 plugged directly into router and the others meshed from there. With the two meshed ones disconnected, I'm getting much better upload speeds regardless of which device I'm connected to. Issue there is that I need at least one for coverage but that seems like an avenue to investigate.

I need to repeat the above experiments to see if they are repeatable but while I have a connection I better get on with some work while I can! ...

Definitely repeat the tests.

First thing you need to do is work out whether it's your LAN causing the issue. It sounds like that's possible. Best way to do this initially would be to plug a laptop directly into the LAN port of the B818. See how quick everything is that way.

If you can isolate any issue there, then reposition the device to give you the best compromise up/down...then if you still have an issue, give EE a call.

Both Ubiquiti and EE technical support have been very good IME (though are you based in Eire? May be different there).

Cheers, I've been repeating tests and actually I cannot find much pattern to it all. I think the positive results the other day from disconnecting the Unifi stuff might be explained by just resetting the router at the same sort of time. I am trying to get to situation where the AP's are hard wired though. I'm much more comfortable with that than relying on them working over wireless mesh.

Generally things have been okay since I last posted but I do seem to get these periods where I have fantastic download speed and next to no upload. Yesterday was 75 vs 0.3 at times. Right now I'm at 80 vs 15. I'm not really seeing much pattern to it.

Not sure why speed tests report Dublin as location. Great place but I don't live there! I'm in NE england.

Edited by Gad-Westy on Saturday 15th May 08:56

[Kinky]

What's the WiFi coverage like on the Three 5G router?

I ask as my BT Fibre BB contract has just finished and am debating switching to Threes 5G option.

The problem I have is that BT gives me excellent WiFi coverage in the extremes in the house, unlike previous suppliers I've been with. I've also had consistent excellent speed (c. 70mb) and connectivity. I can't complain, but a faster connection would be great. No chance of cable anytime soon nor FTTP.

Of course, the other question is 5G coverage. I believe I've got line of sight of a Three 5G mast; but I don't know if it's Three and also if it's 5G. Their coverage checker shows I've got coverage; but lots of googling does not throw anything up relating to the mast that I can access. It was only installed a few months ago and I've been over to recce it, to see if there's any clues or hints as to who/what it is.

I've even googled 5G mast images to find one similar, but draw a blank on identical masts. I can't believe there's such variance!

I can tell you it's mast # 51282 on London Road / Broomhall Lane.

Any suggestions, ideas, thoughts, etc?

[Murph7355]

Gad-Westy said:

...

Not sure why speed tests report Dublin as location. Great place but I don't live there! I'm in NE england. ...

Have you tried plugging into the 4G router directly? Does that give more consistency?

[Gad-Westy]

Murph7355 said:

Gad-Westy said:

...

Not sure why speed tests report Dublin as location. Great place but I don't live there! I'm in NE england. ...

Have you tried plugging into the 4G router directly? Does that give more consistency?

I haven’t but only because I don’t have a usb-c to Ethernet adaptor. I’ll give it a try soon though.

[FunkyGibbon]

Gad-Westy said:

FunkyGibbon said:

Dead easy. For load balancing you input the "max" download and upload for each WAN connection and it will pro-rate the traffic based on the ratios. I said "max" in quotes because you could if you want make one WAN primarily download and the other primarily upload by tweaking the figures, should you wish.

For failover you put in a ping response time and if the response exceeds that of a specified number of times, it will failover to the other WAN. I'm not sure (and can't test at the moment as I only have one WAN connected), if it will auto fall back to the primary WAN.

If I get time next week I'll dig out my B818 and give it a test.

Fantastic thanks. Would be great if you could.

OK - here goes. On testing you cannot quite set load balancing based on download and upload speeds. Load balancing works at the WAN interface level. But it will work out the ratio of the data connection speeds of each WAN connection. So in mine the ratio is 900 main WAN (FTTP) and 16 WAN/LAN1 (4G through the B818). In the Omada controller software has a widget to measure that, but you could override.

If you want to have certain applications to upload by a specific WAN port you can link destination IPs to WAN ports in the static routing.

Regarding failover, I have tested this. It will auto switch to the backup WAN and revert to Primary WAN when it is reconnected.

Hope this helps

FG

[InYaMooey]

Hi Guys, a little advice please...

I have a TP Link MR6400 3 years old now and has served me very well but the last few + months has started to lose connection to the provider (Three) i think some of the fault was with three fking about with the mast etc but the last few weeks have been worse..

Question is, when i re boot the Router it will reconnect but if i just Sim Out/Back in still no connection

Does this indicate that the good old TP is starting to get tired ?

If so, is the B818 worth nearly £100 more than a replacement MR6400 ?

P.S.
Haven't had landline based interweb for many many years originally, after a disagreement with Sky and then gave up the BT landline, i was originally using a Huawei (iirc) dongle

Thanks in advance

Edited by InYaMooey on Tuesday 25th May 19:45

[IanA2]

Probably. Try one, if it's not, send it back.

[InYaMooey]

IanA2 said:

Probably. Try one, if it's not, send it back.

I was thinking that but knowing my luck it will be the two/three weeks of no lose of signal/connection


Is the 818 much better ?

Edited by InYaMooey on Tuesday 25th May 19:52

[FunkyGibbon]

InYaMooey said:

I was thinking that but knowing my luck it will be the two/three weeks of no lose of signal/connection


Is the 818 much better ?

Edited by InYaMooey on Tuesday 25th May 19:52

The B818 works very well with Three

[beko1987]

I was going to buy a B818 this payday but they seem to be £200, is that correct?

In other news, I now have a full network PiHole set up on a small VM off my unraid box and WOW! I feel a speed increate already just based on it not loading so much rubbish with every page, I've been able to uninstall all browser addons, it's fab!

But £200 on a B818... I thought they were cheaper when I looked earlier in the year when they first got announced?

[IanA2]

beko1987 said:

I was going to buy a B818 this payday but they seem to be £200, is that correct?

In other news, I now have a full network PiHole set up on a small VM off my unraid box and WOW! I feel a speed increate already just based on it not loading so much rubbish with every page, I've been able to uninstall all browser addons, it's fab!

But £200 on a B818... I thought they were cheaper when I looked earlier in the year when they first got announced?

I bought my B618 in Nov '18 for £195 so the Huawei B818 4G+ Cat19 LTE Dual Band Gigabit Router with 12 Months Unlimited O2 Data SIM Card Bundle Brand: TheTechnologyDoctors Price £199.99 (cut & paste fom Amazon) seems like an amazing deal.

ETA: Just noticed that whilst the first month is free, subsequent months are £30.00 so not quite so generous. There are other offers without SIM's around £200 which still seems like good value to me.

Edited by IanA2 on Wednesday 26th May 08:14