I do not ****ing want Amazon ****ing Prime !
Discussion
ReallyReallyGood said:
Looks like the FTC in the US agrees with those of us complaining it was deceptive and not just lack of attention...
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/21/ftc-sues-amazon-ov...
It's deceptive if you don't pay attention...https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/21/ftc-sues-amazon-ov...
Scrimpton said:
e-honda said:
F1GTRUeno said:
If you're paying attention then you look at what you're doing and you don't get caught out surely?
The FTC now officially disagrees with youWe can explain it to you, but we can't understand it for you.
As documented several times upthread, Amazon was using UI tricks to get people to accept Amazon Prime membership and boost their take-up numbers.
Those of us lesser mortals who are not 'Masters of the Universe', fell foul of their tricks then had to search through the sub menus to find out how to cancel. I expect such shenanigans from s
tty-obscure-website.com, but not from the #1 online store.
Congratulations on those people who read every single bit of superfluous text on each and every one of the circa 8 click-through pages when ordering through Amazon. Of course their fluid UI design means that different people got different nudges/user journeys, so individual mileage may vary.
The kicker is that the FTC seems to think it was dishonest too which kind of underlines and confirms the thinking that it was a stty thing for Amazon to do.
Feel free to blame the customers for not reading the content of every page correctly, but it's been explained previously upthread why what Amazon was doing was bad form...
edited to add :
On further reading, they changed how this worked in 2019 in the UK after being kicked in the balls by the UK ASA. Oddly enough they also changed it in the US just before the FTC decided it wanted to kick them in the balls too.
As documented several times upthread, Amazon was using UI tricks to get people to accept Amazon Prime membership and boost their take-up numbers.
Those of us lesser mortals who are not 'Masters of the Universe', fell foul of their tricks then had to search through the sub menus to find out how to cancel. I expect such shenanigans from s
tty-obscure-website.com, but not from the #1 online store.Congratulations on those people who read every single bit of superfluous text on each and every one of the circa 8 click-through pages when ordering through Amazon. Of course their fluid UI design means that different people got different nudges/user journeys, so individual mileage may vary.
The kicker is that the FTC seems to think it was dishonest too which kind of underlines and confirms the thinking that it was a s
tty thing for Amazon to do.Feel free to blame the customers for not reading the content of every page correctly, but it's been explained previously upthread why what Amazon was doing was bad form...
edited to add :
On further reading, they changed how this worked in 2019 in the UK after being kicked in the balls by the UK ASA. Oddly enough they also changed it in the US just before the FTC decided it wanted to kick them in the balls too.
Edited by tangerine_sedge on Thursday 22 June 11:16
tangerine_sedge said:
I expect such shenanigans from stty-obscure-website.com, but not from the #1 online store.
Congratulations on those people who read every single bit of superfluous text on each and every one of the circa 8 click-through pages when ordering through Amazon. Of course their fluid UI design means that different people got different nudges/user journeys, so individual mileage may vary.
Why wouldn't you expect it from the #1 online store? There's zero honour in being the most successful online store in the world, there's zero honour in Jeff Bezos or the way he treats his workers so why would you expect he treats his customers any different?tty-obscure-website.com, but not from the #1 online store.Congratulations on those people who read every single bit of superfluous text on each and every one of the circa 8 click-through pages when ordering through Amazon. Of course their fluid UI design means that different people got different nudges/user journeys, so individual mileage may vary.
The fundamental flaw in all of this is people expecting better from someone trying to get your money. That's all they care about and they're so big that one complaint is a smaller drop in the ocean than a pixel on the screen of a laptop you've accidentally ordered and now are desperately flapping around trying to send it back.
I've said repeatedly in this thread that it's a question of when you were born and what your expectations are. If you're born anywhere around the time the internet and computers became prevalent then you're wary of just about everything but usually you're well versed enough to get through all of the bulls
t without even thinking.It's not a massive achievement to not get caught out by them because it's everyday drivel on a website if you're used to visiting websites. Anyone that isn't that used to it may not quite be an idiot in general as I suppose my original points came across as, but in terms of using the internet as a concept, is at least incredibly naive.
Using Amazon is simply put, easy as f
k. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be the #1 online store. It's purposely, ridiculously easy to navigate and shop as you please on there. If you find it hard then I suggest you book in with your local night school for some internet 101 because it's pretty much necessary in 2023 to find it easy to navigate the internet. Or just ask a teenager or something, they'll know vastly more than you on this specific subject most probably.I also challenge the notion that the UI/UX changes for individuals. They have specific outcomes for clicking specific buttons but they're not individual, they're set for everyone. I don't know of any reason why it would be different? If you're a member with prime, it goes a certain way. If you're a member without, it's a certain way and if you're not a member then it also goes a certain way but surely they're completely common sense outcomes? Pretty much every other online retailer operates the same idea and having worked on tills for many years in face to face retail when I was younger, it's just the online version of having a membership/rewards card in a shop.
F1GTRUeno said:
tangerine_sedge said:
I expect such shenanigans from stty-obscure-website.com, but not from the #1 online store.
Congratulations on those people who read every single bit of superfluous text on each and every one of the circa 8 click-through pages when ordering through Amazon. Of course their fluid UI design means that different people got different nudges/user journeys, so individual mileage may vary.
Why wouldn't you expect it from the #1 online store? There's zero honour in being the most successful online store in the world, there's zero honour in Jeff Bezos or the way he treats his workers so why would you expect he treats his customers any different?tty-obscure-website.com, but not from the #1 online store.Congratulations on those people who read every single bit of superfluous text on each and every one of the circa 8 click-through pages when ordering through Amazon. Of course their fluid UI design means that different people got different nudges/user journeys, so individual mileage may vary.
The fundamental flaw in all of this is people expecting better from someone trying to get your money. That's all they care about and they're so big that one complaint is a smaller drop in the ocean than a pixel on the screen of a laptop you've accidentally ordered and now are desperately flapping around trying to send it back.
I've said repeatedly in this thread that it's a question of when you were born and what your expectations are. If you're born anywhere around the time the internet and computers became prevalent then you're wary of just about everything but usually you're well versed enough to get through all of the bulls
t without even thinking.It's not a massive achievement to not get caught out by them because it's everyday drivel on a website if you're used to visiting websites. Anyone that isn't that used to it may not quite be an idiot in general as I suppose my original points came across as, but in terms of using the internet as a concept, is at least incredibly naive.
Using Amazon is simply put, easy as f
k. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be the #1 online store. It's purposely, ridiculously easy to navigate and shop as you please on there. If you find it hard then I suggest you book in with your local night school for some internet 101 because it's pretty much necessary in 2023 to find it easy to navigate the internet. Or just ask a teenager or something, they'll know vastly more than you on this specific subject most probably.I also challenge the notion that the UI/UX changes for individuals. They have specific outcomes for clicking specific buttons but they're not individual, they're set for everyone. I don't know of any reason why it would be different? If you're a member with prime, it goes a certain way. If you're a member without, it's a certain way and if you're not a member then it also goes a certain way but surely they're completely common sense outcomes? Pretty much every other online retailer operates the same idea and having worked on tills for many years in face to face retail when I was younger, it's just the online version of having a membership/rewards card in a shop.
The UK ASA gave them a kicking over their deceptive practices.
The US FTC are giving them a kicking over their deceptive practices.
What Amazon was doing, was not 'everyday drivel', it was nothing more than attempting to trick it's customers into clicking the wrong option, then making it difficult to reverse that decision. There are multiple examples online of the tricks they were up to.
Your continued defence of their tactics makes me think that you don't actually understand what they were doing (shown by your lack of knowledge about varying user journeys or A/B testing), probably because you were already inside their walled garden.
F1GTRUeno said:
I've said repeatedly in this thread that it's a question of when you were born and what your expectations are. If you're born anywhere around the time the internet and computers became prevalent then you're wary of just about everything but usually you're well versed enough to get through all of the bullst without even thinking.
Finally, just to specifically respond to the above. What absolute nonsense - age has nothing to do with it, I was building and using websites since before Amazon even existed (and still am) so I have more than a little experience of web design. The whole point of my outrage at Amazon, is that they took standard web design language and used it to trick those people who, to use your own ft without even thinking.king words were "well versed enough to get through all of the bullst without even thinking".snuffy said:
ReallyReallyGood said:
Looks like the FTC in the US agrees with those of us complaining it was deceptive and not just lack of attention...
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/21/ftc-sues-amazon-ov...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65978053https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/21/ftc-sues-amazon-ov...
It also said Amazon put customers seeking to cancel through a cumbersome "four-page, six-click, fifteen option" process, which the FTC said was known internally as "Iliad" in a nod to the Greek epic about the "long, arduous Trojan War
Give people fish v teach them how to fish.
The FTC/ASA seem to be in the former camp.
People not being careful when they are spending money on line. Whatever next.
Teach people how to stay aware and maybe the trillions (other estimates are available) that get lost in genuine online fraud might ease.
The FTC/ASA seem to be in the former camp.
People not being careful when they are spending money on line. Whatever next.
Teach people how to stay aware and maybe the trillions (other estimates are available) that get lost in genuine online fraud might ease.
Murph7355 said:
Give people fish v teach them how to fish.
The FTC/ASA seem to be in the former camp.
People not being careful when they are spending money on line. Whatever next.
Teach people how to stay aware and maybe the trillions (other estimates are available) that get lost in genuine online fraud might ease.
Twaddle.The FTC/ASA seem to be in the former camp.
People not being careful when they are spending money on line. Whatever next.
Teach people how to stay aware and maybe the trillions (other estimates are available) that get lost in genuine online fraud might ease.
This is a billion dollar company using all the design tricks in the book to con people, and you think it should just be "buyer beware"?
They have conned many very experienced people, including some I know.
funinhounslow said:
snuffy said:
ReallyReallyGood said:
Looks like the FTC in the US agrees with those of us complaining it was deceptive and not just lack of attention...
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/21/ftc-sues-amazon-ov...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65978053https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/21/ftc-sues-amazon-ov...
It also said Amazon put customers seeking to cancel through a cumbersome "four-page, six-click, fifteen option" process, which the FTC said was known internally as "Iliad" in a nod to the Greek epic about the "long, arduous Trojan War
rodericb said:
You see, people say that type of thing is wild fantasy then the evidence is shown but those same people still want to find ways to blame "stupid people". It's puzzling as to why some folk want so desperately to, well, suck big tech cock and do such with amazing levels of commitment.
I don't think it's wild fantasy. I'm fully aware of the tactics they use, I'm simply saying people should be more careful and treat anything on the internet like they would anything in the real world.It's pretty bloody obvious the average human will just click whatever because it happens all the time. The thread was started as a complaint that they'd been caught out, when it was obvious that they hadn't scanned anything for more than an instant and simply fell foul of the tactics that we all know companies like Amazon use.
I don't much fancy 'sucking big tech cock', hence I make sure I don't. Others should follow suit. We're not defending the tactics, we're just aware they use them so we don't get caught out.
Those defending Amazon are the people who've been sucked in to paying £9 a month for some crap tv and very little else, I only use Amazon as a last resort when I can't get what I want elsewhere but I usually get free delivery by having the item delivered to the local post office.
When dealing with a company, I expect them to act honestly, not to be deceitful.
When dealing with a company, I expect them to act honestly, not to be deceitful.
cobra kid said:
Scrimpton said:
e-honda said:
F1GTRUeno said:
If you're paying attention then you look at what you're doing and you don't get caught out surely?
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