Whats app new privacy terms Feb 8th agree or leave.

[ElectricSoup]

PurpleTurtle said:

toon10 said:

What are the ramifications of these new terms? I use WhatsApp a lot but what information do they have on me beyond my contact information? I'm sure they don't care about my random meme sharing groups and my Call of Duty gaming arrangements with the squad.

All about the Meta Data that WhatsApp wants to share.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2021/01/03...

Facebook Messenger is the scarier one, if you are inclined to be scared about these things.

As you know I'm a FB refusenik. Also an Apple refusenik. However, my old Mum is an iPad enthusiast, and uses it now for all comms. She's been on FB for years. She can't work out how to use Zoom, Skype keeps logging her out and she can't understand how to use it, and WhatsApp is also beyond her understanding. So she uses FaceTime with all my other rellies, who are all Apple drones. This means I have no means of video calling with her as I'm Android - well there's the option of Google Duo, but that means getting it on her iPad and working, so given the above limitations to her understanding, I'm not going there. So. I actually created a FB account recently, so that I could install Messenger on my phone and use it as a video calling method just for my Mum. Once set up and tested, I went on to the FB app to deactivate my account. In that 10 minutes or so, the biggest pain in the arse, nosey-arsed cow in my wider family, who literally lives her life performatively on FB, had already spotted my account, even though I'd set it up with a fake photo, and sent me a Friend request. So I summarily ignored it and deactivated the account. I'm hoping this hasn't opened me up to the world of FB pain which I had always feared should I start using it.

Now I'm alarmed at WhatsApp sucking me in to FB pain - I can't imagine using Signal is going to be much use as that is dependant on my contacts using it too - which is unlikely given they are all deep in the FB canyon already so probably not worried about it.

I want somebody to invent the tech we were promised in the 60s, 70, and 80s - video phones which you just plug in to the landline!

Edited by ElectricSoup on Wednesday 13th January 13:11

[KingofKong]

camel_landy said:

Horse... Water... Drink...

M

At that point you’ve lost me, you’re just another weirdo metal hat wearer worried that your devious pastimes are going to get your collar felt.

[camel_landy]

KingofKong said:

camel_landy said:

Horse... Water... Drink...

M

At that point you’ve lost me, you’re just another weirdo metal hat wearer worried that your devious pastimes are going to get your collar felt.

...or maybe I'm not. We'll never know.

M

[RizzoTheRat]

camel_landy said:

KingofKong said:

camel_landy said:

Horse... Water... Drink...

M

At that point you’ve lost me, you’re just another weirdo metal hat wearer worried that your devious pastimes are going to get your collar felt.

...or maybe I'm not. We'll never know.

M

No doubt Facebook or Google knows

[camel_landy]

RizzoTheRat said:

No doubt Facebook or Google knows

M

[anonymous-user]

ElectricSoup said:

PurpleTurtle said:

toon10 said:

What are the ramifications of these new terms? I use WhatsApp a lot but what information do they have on me beyond my contact information? I'm sure they don't care about my random meme sharing groups and my Call of Duty gaming arrangements with the squad.

All about the Meta Data that WhatsApp wants to share.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2021/01/03...

Facebook Messenger is the scarier one, if you are inclined to be scared about these things.

As you know I'm a FB refusenik. Also an Apple refusenik.

Edited by ElectricSoup on Wednesday 13th January 13:11

Out of interest do you refuse Facebook and apple for security reasons? My understanding is that apple are one of the more moral guardians of their users' data and store it far more securely than any Samsung device. I'm genuinely interested as people's perceptions of security are just as important as the security itself. After all, much of the security additions made by Facebook have the added benefit of making our data more valuable to them. They made huge security changes after the data controversies in 2018 but in real terms it didn't do anything other than require users to give consent to more data being used by Facebook for their services.

They also bought Whatsapp around the same time and after that the widespread praise given for its encryption gave a perception of Facebook changing how they care for our data. 2FA mean it's quite hard to have a Facebook account without a mobile phone. It's not impossible but it's not easy either. It's very difficult to have a facebook profile with no friends and no picture of yourself. Facebook will generally find it and shut it down within about 3 weeks. If you use a photo, even one created by thispersondoesnotexist.com then their algorithms currently don't seem to detect it but you will receive targeted advertising. For example, in my studies, the only time I've ever received advertising for afro hair products is when I had a profile on a new account with no friends but with a profile picture of a black lady in her 30s. If I stick an older gentleman's picture I'll get the associated adverts for that demographic. With nothing else to go on, including using VPNs or access points with no other associations then the adverts seem to match the profile picture.

On the subject of Facebook profiles. You'll have already had a profile when your friends and acquaintances joined Facebook and ticked the box which allowed Facebook to upload their contacts list so they can 'make finding your friends easier'. You just wont have accepted the terms and conditions until you logged in.

My company is sitting right in the middle of this area of business and we assist investigation and intel agencies use digital media for their investigations. Facebook shadow profiles is something I'm currently doing a study on. The amount of data stored by Facebook on people in shadow profiles is huge and very impressive considering there were question marks around monetising Facebook when it first launched IPO.

[ElectricSoup]

No I refuse Facebook because there are too many annoying relatives on there who I don't want finding me, and I avoid Apple because their products are overpriced and too restrictive to their own ecosystem for my tastes.

Edited by ElectricSoup on Wednesday 13th January 14:09

[anonymous-user]

ElectricSoup said:

No I refuse Facebook because there are too many annoying relatives on there who I don't want finding me, and and I avoid Apple because their products are overpriced and too restrictive to their own ecosystem for my tastes.

Cant disagree with that, especially the facebook bit!

[i4got]

Unless I'm missing something there is a feature missing from Signal which stops a couple of my WhatsApp group migrating.

There does not seem to be the equivalent of WhatsApps "Reply Privately" option when in a group chat.

It's used in a couple of quiz groups - so the questions go out on the group chat, you select the question and reply privately to the host. Bit niche but I'm sure it must be a fairly common feature.

[CanAm]

sebdangerfield said:

Out of interest do you refuse Facebook and apple for security reasons? My understanding is that apple are one of the more moral guardians of their users' data and store it far more securely than any Samsung device.

Really?
I was given my son’s old iPhone and when I tried to open an Apple ID it was refused as my email address was already allocated to an account (there is a daft Australian lady with an email address similar to mine, but with numbers on the end, who makes a habit of forgetting to include the numbers)

So they allocated an email address without even validating it! It took me a week of arguing to get them to unattach my email address from someone else’s Apple account.

[Far Cough]

camel_landy said:

I think you're approaching this wrong. You won't see anything from day 1 and if they're doing things right, you probably won't see any impact other than advertising & sponsored links becoming more targeted.

Unfortunately, it's sounding like you're a perfect example of why these organisations can do what they do. The answer isn't binary... As they're hoovering up as much data as they can get away with, we won't know there's a problem until after the event. At that point, it will be too late, the horse has bolted.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.


Although not specifically WhatsApp, here's an example of how data being used for 'good' has the potential to go 'bad': Fingerprints / Biometrics.

We have started to use biometrics to secure our devices, it's convenient, our fingerprints are pretty unique and it's a great way of personalising our security rather than having to remember a password or PIN. Have you considered how that fingerprint is stored, secured and the implications if it is 'cracked'? PINs & passwords can be changed... Your biometrics can't.

M

I've not seen a single advert or sponsored link on Wattsapp .... That though would be one thing to make me move away from using it.

[camel_landy]

Far Cough said:

I've not seen a single advert or sponsored link on Wattsapp ....

No-one said it would be delivered via WhatsApp.

M

[camel_landy]

camel_landy said:

Far Cough said:

I've not seen a single advert or sponsored link on Wattsapp ....

No-one said it would be delivered via WhatsApp.

To give that a bit of context:

With WhatsApp gathering device & location information and Facebook gathering cookies from browsing history, an advertising company has the potential to target you via the 'smart' advertising displays in stores and on the street.

Now throw in a bit of browsing for some Tiffany jewellery for a surprise birthday present.

...so walking down your local high-street with your partner, your 'surprise' could be scuppered with some targeted advertising. "Hey - Far Cough, come and see that Tiffany jewellery, here... In-store... Now!"



That's a very simple example but with a rich dataset, the possibilities are potentially limitless.

M

[camel_landy]

Far Cough said:

I've not seen a single advert or sponsored link on Wattsapp .... That though would be one thing to make me move away from using it.

Noticed this earlier:

The Independent said:

It did clarify that some information is passed to Facebook, but said that specifically related to shopping services. That comes in three forms: the Facebook hosting services that are offered to shops that operate on WhatsApp; new commerce features that allow goods to be displayed in WhatsApp but which may be used to tailor ads on Facebook and Instagram; and Facebook ads that allow people to click through to speak to a business on WhatsApp.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/whatsapp-privacy-update-new-rules-facebook-b1785873.html



M

[anonymous-user]

CanAm said:

sebdangerfield said:

Out of interest do you refuse Facebook and apple for security reasons? My understanding is that apple are one of the more moral guardians of their users' data and store it far more securely than any Samsung device.

Really?
I was given my son’s old iPhone and when I tried to open an Apple ID it was refused as my email address was already allocated to an account (there is a daft Australian lady with an email address similar to mine, but with numbers on the end, who makes a habit of forgetting to include the numbers)

So they allocated an email address without even validating it! It took me a week of arguing to get them to unattach my email address from someone else’s Apple account.

Really. Apple have recently celebrated selling their 2.2 billionth iPhone so addressing issues on a case by case basis isn’t really proving anything. I’m talking more the way Apple store information within iOS and OS and the security of the devices themselves. It’s commonly known that the way iPhones store data is more secure and as I’m in that business, it’s far harder to get into an iPhone than an android phone. Celebrite, an Israeli company who specialise in getting data from phones state it themselves.

[the tribester]

Well, would saw this coming... WhatsApp forced to delay implementation of the new terms.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jan/24...

[Murph7355]

I was under the impression WhatsApps data handling policies were always suspect.

Ubiquity is not always a great thing.

[Far Cough]

camel_landy said:

To give that a bit of context:

With WhatsApp gathering device & location information and Facebook gathering cookies from browsing history, an advertising company has the potential to target you via the 'smart' advertising displays in stores and on the street.

Now throw in a bit of browsing for some Tiffany jewellery for a surprise birthday present.

...so walking down your local high-street with your partner, your 'surprise' could be scuppered with some targeted advertising. "Hey - Far Cough, come and see that Tiffany jewellery, here... In-store... Now!"



That's a very simple example but with a rich dataset, the possibilities are potentially limitless.

M

It will never happen ..........





















The Tiffany bit I mean

[the tribester]

Well here's the answer. Write a nice letter and ask them not to.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jan/26...