Windows 11 - lightweight? fast? and Android?

[Mr Whippy]

saaby93 said:

Mr Whippy said:

For most users, they save data into cloud etc. 2FA and all that jazz. So data should be safe there

Didnt realise saving to the cloud (it's not really a cloud it's some service provider) was that prevalent.
Is it really safe? and secure?

iCloud and Onedrive, Dropbox as 3rd party.

Stablebit drivecloud is probably the way I’d go so your data is wrapped in your own encryption at your end before the cloud “sees” it.

Safe? Secure? All that data could be saved by 3rd parties with access and decrypted in future if possible.
Or keys leak. Or laws change and Apple give unfettered access to iCloud etc.

It all comes down to how paranoid you might be.
But it also comes down to understanding what is really happening to your data these days.

MS must be mining it deep and hard to justify the efforts they’re going to and ‘free’ upgrades.

Free means you’re the product. And each time they upgrade for free you become more and more the product.

[NMNeil]

Mr Whippy said:

It’s nice that every step they take towards ultimate bloaty spyware, Linux takes a step forward to being the ultimate windows replacement.

Sadly Linux still has a horrible textual input UI that needs you to google to find out how to do anything, while control panel did in windows a quarter of a century ago just had a graphical UI to do most common tasks.

And Linux has no way to stop an app having firewall traffic, only ip blocking. That’s if you like to set all that up manually in a command line interface.

Hmmmm

The Windows GUI is the most intuitive, but the trade off is all the spy and bloatware, also Microsoft deciding what you can and cannot do with the software, such as disabling the never ending updates and fixes. And with windows 11 you have to have a Microsoft account to even use it.
Linux is far less intuitive, but you can fully configure your system and have total control over it. All the source code is freely available.
I've been watching the ReactOS development for a while, and it now looks like it a valid open source alternative to windows.
https://reactos.org/

[smithyithy]

It feels like Micrsoft are becomming more like Apple in how they control the use of their OS (and the fact that Win 11 looks a bit like OS X )

[NGRhodes]

Mr Whippy said:

LordFlathead said:

When actually it is a unique identifier which confirms that this specific PC was used on a network, and with a known user (Microsoft account). Although it is currently possible to install windows as a local install, going forwards it is going to be a verified account only. Akin to MAC addressing on your ISP where it is tied to your account. In Windows 11 very few things will be private anymore.

It’s nice that every step they take towards ultimate bloaty spyware, Linux takes a step forward to being the ultimate windows replacement.

Sadly Linux still has a horrible textual input UI that needs you to google to find out how to do anything, while control panel did in windows a quarter of a century ago just had a graphical UI to do most common tasks.

And Linux has no way to stop an app having firewall traffic, only ip blocking. That’s if you like to set all that up manually in a command line interface.

Hmmmm

Mainstream desktop distros have plenty of GUI tools for configuring, my parents used to run Ubuntu and never once had to use the commandline.
Linux has had SELinux and Apparmour which both have GUI tools for blocking/allowing access on an application basis, not sure if they are installed by default, but the SELinux GUI tools are installed by default on our Linux Desktops at Leeds Uni.

For me the biggest issue still is software, IMHO the base OS and desktops have been good enough for a longtime.
I still need good MS Office compatibility, Linux has no good exchange client, Evolution is slow and missing many features compared to Outlook (Outlook on the web is better than Evolution, but still not as slick as a running desktop outlook), Kids at school are still tied to MS office documents and even the latest versions of Ubuntu tested this week had formatting issues (mostly minor but a couple of major issues with image placements) in LibreOffice (printing from MS office online in Ubuntu has issues including setting margins incorrectly with my printer). I have over 80 games on steam (I am mostly into older/retro/indie games) and only 20-30 of them work in Linux.

I love Linux and use it daily from the command line as part of my job, but for a desktop Windows, especially with the new Windows Terminal, WSL2, docker via hyper-V gives me best of both worlds.

Of course YMMV.

[NGRhodes]

NMNeil said:

The Windows GUI is the most intuitive, but the trade off is all the spy and bloatware, also Microsoft deciding what you can and cannot do with the software, such as disabling the never ending updates and fixes. And with windows 11 you have to have a Microsoft account to even use it.
Linux is far less intuitive, but you can fully configure your system and have total control over it. All the source code is freely available.
I've been watching the ReactOS development for a while, and it now looks like it a valid open source alternative to windows.
https://reactos.org/

I wonder how many people who complain about spy and bloatware, not being able to disable updates in Windows still use Android which is equally as bad.
BTW Win11 having an MS account only applies to the Home edition, but I do wonder why home NEEDS an MS Account when other editions don't, seems very artificial choice.
Last time I looked at Reactos, progress with very very slow, have things picked up ?

[markiii]

not so much why Home needs it and other don't, they'd like it on all versions but most corporates won't wear it

[Mr Whippy]

NMNeil said:

The Windows GUI is the most intuitive, but the trade off is all the spy and bloatware, also Microsoft deciding what you can and cannot do with the software, such as disabling the never ending updates and fixes. And with windows 11 you have to have a Microsoft account to even use it.
Linux is far less intuitive, but you can fully configure your system and have total control over it. All the source code is freely available.
I've been watching the ReactOS development for a while, and it now looks like it a valid open source alternative to windows.
https://reactos.org/

I’ve used WFC in Win10 to just trim the firewall right down.

Win10 updates are one group of accesses.

Then there are base level stuff like cryptographic certs, time, etc.

The rest is then blocked by IPs, but really a piHole would be best to capture all the utter junk.


Win10 can behave pretty well by managing its connection.


Having to have an MS account would be a deal breaker for me.
Not least as it’s just a huge security risk because you must not be able to then have non-internet ‘connected’ accounts, ie, for admin vs users etc.

I’ve got this feeling that that requirement will just be like Win10. Encouraged so they can spy better, and tie you into their system better... but not absolutely required.

[paulrockliffe]

Mr Whippy said:

I’ve got this feeling that that requirement will just be like Win10. Encouraged so they can spy better, and tie you into their system better... but not absolutely required.

I suspect it's just licensing. They've been pushing you to link your licenses to a Windows Account for a while, and to be honest, it's pretty handy if you have a few machines and a collection of OS and Office licenses as you no longer forget you've got them. Perhaps having them on my Microsoft account will allow me to still use them on W11 in the future, which would remove my main complaint on compatibility.

They seem to be able to activate later versions of Office. Eg I can activate two Office 2019 setups, with an O2016 and an O2019 license. These will be really handy in future as they're HUP licenses, with HUP being O365 only now. But they also mean you can collect old keys from all over and use them yourself whenever.

I suspect you'll need a Microsoft Account to link the license to, from there you'll still be able to add other Users and do your Admin stuff.

[Mr Whippy]

The only official thing I bought in Win 10 was Forza Horizon which was a ball ache.

I had to create an “online” account just for buying stuff, and Windows often tries merging it with my offline account.

Then a XBL account.

And they needed burner phones as it wouldn’t accept my mobile number saying already in use.


I just use Libre Office now. Seems pretty solid.

If I want cloud. As noted I’d just use stablebit into some other service... or a home hosted service on a Rasp Pi... which given modern internet connections is a no brainer for lots of stuff.


Ok seems like a lot of faff but it’s not really that bad and you’re in full control.

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

Gary C said:

Thought MS had declared windows 10 was the last operating system with only updates needed ever after ?

and the product managers name is ironically ' Panos '

ah well, one of my machines still runs MSDOS 3.1

Edited by Gary C on Thursday 24th June 18:37

Is that Heysham's reactor protection system

That product manager... I do hope his surname is chocolat.

[xeny]

Order66 said:

I think you have the concept of what the windows registry is and is used for confused. I develop daily on windows (and linux) and haven't had to use regedit in many many years. Windows has a command line (and powershell) which is a conceptual equivalent of the linux terminal.

If I'm trying to configure something atypical in an OS, on a Mac or Linux host I'll reach for the CLI, although Macs also used to have the joy of Netinfo. My experience with Windows is that you're more often presented with instructions to edit the registry than a powershell script.

For example, I want Windows to autologin as a user. I google for: windows auto user login

The top hit that isn't a snippet is this from MS:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/wind...

The instructions start "Use Registry Editor to turn on automatic logon", and don't offer a CLI alternative.

I'm aware it is a configuration database that can be manipulated programmatically, but the reality is that for a lot of cases the default approach is to perform a direct edit.

[Order66]

xeny said:

For example, I want Windows to autologin as a user. I google for: windows auto user login

An extremely uncommon requirement. Most organisations simply wouldn't allow it.
If you HAVE to edit the registry it can be done from the command line. I don't really see the point you're trying to make here as opposed to any number of opaque text config files you have to edit in linux. Again, editing the registry is an extremely uncommon requirement.

[anonymous-user]

MS Windows is the computer equivalent of the obesity epidemic.

As it can be an update it will just sit over the top of the existing bloat in Win 10.

Lightweight on your processor is a deluded fantasy!

[xeny]

Order66 said:

An extremely uncommon requirement. Most organisations simply wouldn't allow it.
If you HAVE to edit the registry it can be done from the command line. I don't really see the point you're trying to make here as opposed to any number of opaque text config files you have to edit in linux. Again, editing the registry is an extremely uncommon requirement.

It's a common requirement on quite a few windows PCs Think about ATMs, digital signage, MRI scanners for example.

I agree the registry can now be edited from the command line.I would observe that pretty much all the documentation I see for editing the registry starts with "click start, run, tyre regedit" rather than "start, run, powershell".

The point I was originally trying to make is that when you go off the beaten path in Linux, Window or MacOS, then rather than a nice GUII with visible options you're typing stuff, either into registry keys or the Mac/Linux CLI, or as you point out the Windows CLI. Yes, you can often directly edit text files in Linux - but that again is all text config,

[Order66]

xeny said:

It's a common requirement on quite a few windows PCs Think about ATMs, digital signage, MRI scanners for example.

Which should all be done using assigned access/kiosk mode and not some "hack" found from google. The use you are describing for windows is not something anyone calling them a professional should engage in and should raise a big security flag. People hacking the registry for auto-login is common when the organisation wouldn't pay for the pro/enterprise versions with the correct facilties.

xeny said:

I agree the registry can now be edited from the command line.I would observe that pretty much all the documentation I see for editing the registry starts with "click start, run, tyre regedit" rather than "start, run, powershell".

By "now" you mean in every version of windows since the turn of this century. Any the reason you don't see much comment on it on the web is because its very simple to do, so application specific, and again - professional developers/administrators don't hack the registry as a matter of course. Also, there's a reasonable GUI, so why is doing it from the command line a better thing? This seems to be your original point, that windows was inferior because these things can be done at the command line and that regedit is used instead, which is simply not true.

xeny said:

The point I was originally trying to make is that when you go off the beaten path in Linux, Window or MacOS, then rather than a nice GUII with visible options you're typing stuff, either into registry keys or the Mac/Linux CLI, or as you point out the Windows CLI. Yes, you can often directly edit text files in Linux - but that again is all text config,

I think you're confused on your own point, you seem to be now arguing for the nice GUI - this would seem like a benefit to me. You tried to claim windows was inferior because you couldn't reconfigure it at the command line like linux. I pointed out that if you have the appropriate knowledge you can.

[xeny]

You've entirely missed my original point - go read the post I was replying to.

[paulrockliffe]

xeny said:

You've entirely missed my original point - go read the post I was replying to.

I think you've missed his point too, all those auto-login scenarios are catered for using Kiosk mode, which is entirely GUI.

Kiosk is available in Enterprise/Professional versions of Windows.

[xeny]

paulrockliffe said:

I think you've missed his point too, all those auto-login scenarios are catered for using Kiosk mode, which is entirely GUI.

Kiosk is available in Enterprise/Professional versions of Windows.

Agreed, as long as you've not got Windows 7, and there's still a significant amount of that deployed on systems, often hopefully air gapped (guess what I have to sometimes deal with).It was an unfortunate choice of example, but I'd needed it recently.

There are other Windows settings which can't be configured from the GUI but via regedit or PS manipulation of the registry, in the same way that there are settings in Linux and MacOS that aren't accessible via the GUI, which is the point I was originally making - it's fallacious arguing that Windows is better because you never needed to go outside the GUI settings tool.

[extraT]

My 6 year old, Surface Pro 3, which works perfectly, has 4gb ram and 125gb SSD says it’s incompatible 😡

[smithyithy]

To be fair, I don't feel any need to upgrade to Windows 11 myself..

It might have some useful new features but as my PC is 90% for gaming and 10% for general browsing / using Office for assignments, I doubt I'll have any real reason to change from Win 10, which has been absolutely fine for me..

I'll end up upgrading / replacing this PC long before they kill Win 10 anyway..