Extending Wi-Fi to an outbuilding

[dr_gn]

So it worked perfectly all day, and sure enough, gets to 7:45 / 8:00 and it goes offline again.

The powerline circuit LED is off in the house. Restarting made no difference in the house, but restarting in the outbuilding got all three lights green again. However the camera remained offline even when that was reset. All the other cameras automatically restart after being powered down.

A shame, but I'll pack it back off to Argos tomorrow. I have pretty much no interest or ability in IT matters, and can't face troubleshoting something I know nothing about, so I'll call the powerline option a fail.

Thanks anyway!

[ridds]

TP_Link Deco Mesh system should do it.

I bought a few of the Deco 3s off FB Marketplace (6 for £100) and they are absolutely spot on.

Really easy to setup and I think I've reset mine 4 times in 2 years.

Might be worth a look.

[Captain_Morgan]

ridds said:

TP_Link Deco Mesh system should do it.

I bought a few of the Deco 3s off FB Marketplace (6 for £100) and they are absolutely spot on.

Really easy to setup and I think I've reset mine 4 times in 2 years.

Might be worth a look.

TP-link have a number of mesh options, if that is the next step then it’s worth understanding who’s the op’s isp & how fast his line is as not all mesh systems provide the same performance.

[Griffith4ever]

dr_gn said:

So it worked perfectly all day, and sure enough, gets to 7:45 / 8:00 and it goes offline again.

The powerline circuit LED is off in the house. Restarting made no difference in the house, but restarting in the outbuilding got all three lights green again. However the camera remained offline even when that was reset. All the other cameras automatically restart after being powered down.

A shame, but I'll pack it back off to Argos tomorrow. I have pretty much no interest or ability in IT matters, and can't face troubleshoting something I know nothing about, so I'll call the powerline option a fail.


Thanks anyway!

just about every single thread regarding extending networks using the mains gets the same (good) advice. Power line is not reliable. You'll then get a few who have a nice short link and claim it's perfect. It's not. I've used it in many scenarios and whist I got it to work, it always needed occasional rebooting, and sometimes it hid the devices (IPs) on its far end.

[dr_gn]

Griffith4ever said:

dr_gn said:

So it worked perfectly all day, and sure enough, gets to 7:45 / 8:00 and it goes offline again.

The powerline circuit LED is off in the house. Restarting made no difference in the house, but restarting in the outbuilding got all three lights green again. However the camera remained offline even when that was reset. All the other cameras automatically restart after being powered down.

A shame, but I'll pack it back off to Argos tomorrow. I have pretty much no interest or ability in IT matters, and can't face troubleshoting something I know nothing about, so I'll call the powerline option a fail.


Thanks anyway!

just about every single thread regarding extending networks using the mains gets the same (good) advice. Power line is not reliable. You'll then get a few who have a nice short link and claim it's perfect. It's not. I've used it in many scenarios and whist I got it to work, it always needed occasional rebooting, and sometimes it hid the devices (IPs) on its far end.

As by far the simplest and cheapest method, it was worth a try.

[Griffith4ever]

dr_gn said:

As by far the simplest and cheapest method, it was worth a try.

It sure is - just bear in mind they are rarely a completely reliable solution. I think I have 4 of them in a box somewhere, or they may have found the bin.....

I even ended up ripping a pair out of my mums place - one upstairs , one downstairs, simply linking wifi access points. They just did odd stuff sometimes. I put an Orbi net in and have never had to look at it since.

[Road2Ruin]

Griffith4ever said:

just about every single thread regarding extending networks using the mains gets the same (good) advice. Power line is not reliable. You'll then get a few who have a nice short link and claim it's perfect. It's not. I've used it in many scenarios and whist I got it to work, it always needed occasional rebooting, and sometimes it hid the devices (IPs) on its far end.

At my old house, across two rings and being the far end of the house....it worked fine for years. I think you will find they work more often than they don't, people moan when things go wrong, but rarely commend when they don't.

[dr_gn]

Next easiest option is the line-of-sight Wi-Fi bridge:

I understand you need an ethernet cable from the router to the transmitter?

I have clear line-of-sight from the corner of my home office to the outbuilding, but the router in located in a cupboard in the middle of my house.

When I built the house however, I installed an ethernet cable from that cupboard to my PC which is...also in the corner of my office. The PC is current;y hard-wired to the router.

Question is, can I use that existing cable - with a splitter, so that wire would split and also go to the transmitter? Or does it need a separate output from the router? I guess if it's the latter, I could get a wireless adapter for my PC, and re-purpose the cable just for the transmitter.

If I can use the existing cable, but mount the transmitter on a spur, it would be very easy to install on the external office wall, pointing to the outbuilding, and from there a trivial matter to set it up (assuming it's going to be inherently more reliable than a powerline adapter!).

Thanks.

[Griffith4ever]

Road2Ruin said:

At my old house, across two rings and being the far end of the house....it worked fine for years. I think you will find they work more often than they don't, people moan when things go wrong, but rarely commend when they don't.

I'm ex-IT and have installed or experienced an aweful lot of them. Yes, they can work, absolutely. Are they a nice simple solution for someone to get internet to behind their TV from the other side of the lounge? Yep. Perfect. Would I recommend for anything more demanding (inc. high bandwidth) - Never.

This is the 1st thread where no one dived in and said "don't". - and you know what - he's sending them back. You can ignore this advice of course. They are st. :-)

[Griffith4ever]

dr_gn said:

Next easiest option is the line-of-sight Wi-Fi bridge:

I understand you need an ethernet cable from the router to the transmitter?

I have clear line-of-sight from the corner of my home office to the outbuilding, but the router in located in a cupboard in the middle of my house.

When I built the house however, I installed an ethernet cable from that cupboard to my PC which is...also in the corner of my office. The PC is current;y hard-wired to the router.

Question is, can I use that existing cable - with a splitter, so that wire would split and also go to the transmitter? Or does it need a separate output from the router? I guess if it's the latter, I could get a wireless adapter for my PC, and re-purpose the cable just for the transmitter.

If I can use the existing cable, but mount the transmitter on a spur, it would be very easy to install on the external office wall, pointing to the outbuilding, and from there a trivial matter to set it up (assuming it's going to be inherently more reliable than a powerline adapter!).

Thanks.

Yes you can - but you can't use an ethernet "splitter" - you need a small inexpensive ethernet switch. Under a tenner:

Example : https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-LS1005G-Wallmount...

You plug the wire that is currently going into your PC into this switch, then run a short ethernet wire from the switch into your PC. Now everything is back to normal, your PC is reconnected (via the switch) but, you now have 4 spare "live" ethernet ports that are talking back to your router through the long wire your PC was previously connected directly to. This is basically a high tech "splitter".

Then put the wifi boxes at each end, with the house one plugged into the new switch. Don't be afraid if small obsticals between the two, particulalrly over modest runs. I have one up a drain pip and it beams through 3 or so BIG trees. When I mounted the receiving one on a pole at the far end (in a field) , the pole, with the wifi unti on top, was laying on the floor, by the side of a shipping container, behind a Haras meshed steel fence, facing down, and to myt amazement, I was getting a full speed link.

Those Kuwifi ones I and someone else linked come with a "POE injector" its simply a small box that lets you power the wifi units over their network cable - so all you have to run to the wifi unit is one network cable - no extra poer cables. I'll knock upa rough diagram for you.

If you want any help setting them up do ask (the ones I linked). TP Link also make a more expensive version, but the cheapo ones work fine.

Here you go, not half as confusing at it first appears. People might well mention POE switches, which eliminates the need for the (free) POE injectors, but for your simple setup I'd not bother.

I have this setup running to send internet to a field container, and my garden and I've never ever had to reboot it.

Edited by Griffith4ever on Wednesday 29th March 16:16

Edited by Griffith4ever on Wednesday 29th March 16:17

[nice1two]

Griffith4ever said:

I use the same ones to go around 300m, through dense trees.

This could work for connecting my outbuildings. do they kick out a wifi signal at the other end or would i have to connect to a router?

[dr_gn]

nice1two said:

Griffith4ever said:

I use the same ones to go around 300m, through dense trees.

This could work for connecting my outbuildings. do they kick out a wifi signal at the other end or would i have to connect to a router?

I was going to ask this too.

Also, if the transmitter can get a WiFi signal, can it boost that...does it actually need an ethernet cable at all?

[dr_gn]

Griffith4ever said:

dr_gn said:

Next easiest option is the line-of-sight Wi-Fi bridge:

I understand you need an ethernet cable from the router to the transmitter?

I have clear line-of-sight from the corner of my home office to the outbuilding, but the router in located in a cupboard in the middle of my house.

When I built the house however, I installed an ethernet cable from that cupboard to my PC which is...also in the corner of my office. The PC is current;y hard-wired to the router.

Question is, can I use that existing cable - with a splitter, so that wire would split and also go to the transmitter? Or does it need a separate output from the router? I guess if it's the latter, I could get a wireless adapter for my PC, and re-purpose the cable just for the transmitter.

If I can use the existing cable, but mount the transmitter on a spur, it would be very easy to install on the external office wall, pointing to the outbuilding, and from there a trivial matter to set it up (assuming it's going to be inherently more reliable than a powerline adapter!).

Thanks.

Yes you can - but you can't use an ethernet "splitter" - you need a small inexpensive ethernet switch. Under a tenner:

Example : https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-LS1005G-Wallmount...

You plug the wire that is currently going into your PC into this switch, then run a short ethernet wire from the switch into your PC. Now everything is back to normal, your PC is reconnected (via the switch) but, you now have 4 spare "live" ethernet ports that are talking back to your router through the long wire your PC was previously connected directly to. This is basically a high tech "splitter".

Then put the wifi boxes at each end, with the house one plugged into the new switch. Don't be afraid if small obsticals between the two, particulalrly over modest runs. I have one up a drain pip and it beams through 3 or so BIG trees. When I mounted the receiving one on a pole at the far end (in a field) , the pole, with the wifi unti on top, was laying on the floor, by the side of a shipping container, behind a Haras meshed steel fence, facing down, and to myt amazement, I was getting a full speed link.

Those Kuwifi ones I and someone else linked come with a "POE injector" its simply a small box that lets you power the wifi units over their network cable - so all you have to run to the wifi unit is one network cable - no extra poer cables. I'll knock upa rough diagram for you.

If you want any help setting them up do ask (the ones I linked). TP Link also make a more expensive version, but the cheapo ones work fine.

Here you go, not half as confusing at it first appears. People might well mention POE switches, which eliminates the need for the (free) POE injectors, but for your simple setup I'd not bother.

I have this setup running to send internet to a field container, and my garden and I've never ever had to reboot it.

Edited by Griffith4ever on Wednesday 29th March 16:16

Edited by Griffith4ever on Wednesday 29th March 16:17

Thanks very much!

[Griffith4ever]

nice1two said:

Griffith4ever said:

I use the same ones to go around 300m, through dense trees.

This could work for connecting my outbuildings. do they kick out a wifi signal at the other end or would i have to connect to a router?

They do both! My Kuwifi creates a seperate wifi network at the far end - so I have two networks - one that is the link between the two, lets call it "link wifi" , then it also has another called, "garden wifi".

On top of this, you get ethernet cabled output too - which I use in my instance, to connect a camera too directly - you could run this to a switch instead and give yourself a full cabled network on top of your wifi net

[Griffith4ever]

dr_gn said:

I was going to ask this too.

Also, if the transmitter can get a WiFi signal, can it boost that...does it actually need an ethernet cable at all?

They come in pairs, and the main one really wants a cabled connection - you are asking for reliability issues, and for the sake of a cheap switch and a cable you are better off doing this and then seeing if you actually need to install the remote one. I'm not sure if one of them will simply run as a wifi repeater - I would not be surprised if it did, but cabling it is easy and cheap - and you've got to get power to it anyhow, so you have to run a cable to it regardless - might as well make that cable carry both data and power.

I found without the remote one the range was barely enough, weak, and of course, you have no cabled output at the far end, which can be very useful.

[buggalugs]

Powerlines can be unreliable - if you've got something like an old fridge or something that kicks in or out and pumps interference down the mains.

Is the mains run through a duct? Could waz a cable down there.

Also, 30M is not that far for WiFi outdoor unobstructed.

[Griffith4ever]

Here is my remote end (I use a Netgear CPE at the "local end"). The remote end (Kuwifi) is powered by it's 12v input, via a car battery, which is charged by solar - hence it has "only " been up for 2 days - this time of the year the battery drops below operatring voltage occasionally.

It does indeed support wireless repeating, because that's what mine is doing - at the far end. You'd still be better off cabling the near end (as I have).

My near end is creating the wifi network "xx-longrange".
The far end (Kuwifi) is running in repeater mode, connecting to the "xx-longrange" wifi network. (far right icon - the thumbsnap logo is obscuring the name)
It then rebroadcasts it as "xxxxage" 2.4Ghz wifi network.
It also passes it on via its ethernet port (my 192.168.1.60) Lan port.



The chap above is right - 30m is not very far - mine is 300m. I'd try the near end first, repeating your LAN over wifi. If that's not enough at the far end, or, you want a cabled connection at the far end, install the far end unit. Just putting the near end outside on a POE / LAN connection (single cable) will shower your garden for some distance with good strong wifi.

[Captain_Morgan]

Griffith4ever said:

They come in pairs, and the main one really wants a cabled connection - you are asking for reliability issues, and for the sake of a cheap switch and a cable you are better off doing this and then seeing if you actually need to install the remote one. I'm not sure if one of them will simply run as a wifi repeater - I would not be surprised if it did, but cabling it is easy and cheap - and you've got to get power to it anyhow, so you have to run a cable to it regardless - might as well make that cable carry both data and power.

I found without the remote one the range was barely enough, weak, and of course, you have no cabled output at the far end, which can be very useful.

Spot on on your suggestions.

I’d simply add general the reason you need both is that wifi comms is a 2 way conversation, meaning while the single node of the bridge pair can reach the target the client device in the remote location can’t reach the bridge node.

I always suggest folk think about dropping stones in still water you want the ripples to bisect before ebbing away, if one of those stones are smaller it won’t reach the other side.

[buggalugs]

Captain_Morgan said:

Spot on on your suggestions.

I’d simply add general the reason you need both is that wifi comms is a 2 way conversation, meaning while the single node of the bridge pair can reach the target the client device in the remote location can’t reach the bridge node.

I always suggest folk think about dropping stones in still water you want the ripples to bisect before ebbing away, if one of those stones are smaller it won’t reach the other side.

Sometimes true but think about your mobile phone, you have a big antenna on a mast at one and and a tiny one in your phone.

[megaphone]

If you go for a wifi bridge then go for a 5GHz option, the Kuwifi ones linked to previously are 2.4ghz. A lot less interference on 5ghz and potentially faster speeds, stick to a 20-40mhz bandwidth. Your neighbours will thank you for not hogging the 2.4ghz spectrum.

I use Ubiquiti kit, a couple of Airmax Nanostation AC Locos will work well for you.

Edited by megaphone on Thursday 30th March 07:42