Apple Vision Pro
Discussion
soupdragon1 said:
Moving from 5.1 to an 11 channel atmos set up is another level up again too, which I would recommend @gangzoom if you're setting up a cinema room.
The electricans have only just finished 1st fix so running x2 rear speakers cables. Seems like there is an endless setup options for Atmos. How many upwards firing or celling speakers is needed?gangzoom said:
The electricans have only just finished 1st fix so running x2 rear speakers cables. Seems like there is an endless setup options for Atmos. How many upwards firing or celling speakers is needed?
It's cheap to run cables that you might not need, so no harm in wiring for full Atmos. When I did mine, Atmos didn't even exist. I ran cat 6 cables in line with dual HDMI cables from the front of the room (where amp, sky box etc would be) up to the projector ceiling mount in case the HDMI standard changed. High bandwidth cat 6 was highest at the time and is capable of way beyond 4k HDR. I also ran a pair of 12v triggers so that when you power on/off the projector, the screen goes up and down on the same command.Cheap as chips to run all those cables and you're future proof for any updates you might make.
Here is a couple of pics of speaker placement
soupdragon1 said:
…..
Although I can't stand by your airpods v surround sound comment without chipping in. A proper subwoofer hits in a way that airpods could never, despite what the spec might say. 15hz is inaudible for most of us but boy, can you feel it. I had a deaf family friend in my cinema room on one occasion and had the subtitles going. She was absolutely thrilled with the subwoofer, tanks were rolling past and she could see everything on screen, she could read the subtitles but for maybe the 1st time, she could hear it (through feel). But it needs to be a good subwoofer, one that does proper sub bass.
Moving from 5.1 to an 11 channel atmos set up is another level up again too, which I would recommend @gangzoom if you're setting up a cinema room.
I dunno, I’ve never had a solo cinema or room experience that comes close to the overall audio experience of simple apple AirPods Pro 2 and Apple TV. Although I can't stand by your airpods v surround sound comment without chipping in. A proper subwoofer hits in a way that airpods could never, despite what the spec might say. 15hz is inaudible for most of us but boy, can you feel it. I had a deaf family friend in my cinema room on one occasion and had the subtitles going. She was absolutely thrilled with the subwoofer, tanks were rolling past and she could see everything on screen, she could read the subtitles but for maybe the 1st time, she could hear it (through feel). But it needs to be a good subwoofer, one that does proper sub bass.
Moving from 5.1 to an 11 channel atmos set up is another level up again too, which I would recommend @gangzoom if you're setting up a cinema room.
The cons esp bass I can agree on, but there are a lot of there are a ton of compromises involved in group viewing that headphones never have to fight . Add in the latest spatial 2 channel tech and the quality of life features and it’s not close imo.
Part of the problem is whatever crappy ambient mic they are using to record dialogue these days!
But the relevance to AVP is I think there are some potentially interesting advances looming for vr cinema and I think apple is the one to do it
Mont Blanc said:
I wouldn’t worry.
When the Sony Walkman arrived, people were claiming it was the end of social interaction between humans. They said everyone would be walking around in their own world, not listening to others, not speaking, not interacting.
It was the end of civilisation apparently.
Ironically based on some recent use of public transport. I’d love it if these Gen Z prat’s would use earbuds so I don’t have to be subject to their sWhen the Sony Walkman arrived, people were claiming it was the end of social interaction between humans. They said everyone would be walking around in their own world, not listening to others, not speaking, not interacting.
It was the end of civilisation apparently.
t TikTok feedCooperS said:
Mont Blanc said:
I wouldn’t worry.
When the Sony Walkman arrived, people were claiming it was the end of social interaction between humans. They said everyone would be walking around in their own world, not listening to others, not speaking, not interacting.
It was the end of civilisation apparently.
Ironically based on some recent use of public transport. I’d love it if these Gen Z prat’s would use earbuds so I don’t have to be subject to their sWhen the Sony Walkman arrived, people were claiming it was the end of social interaction between humans. They said everyone would be walking around in their own world, not listening to others, not speaking, not interacting.
It was the end of civilisation apparently.
t TikTok feedI find it extremely irritating when people have their phone calls, video calls, and watch videos on speaker.
Zuckerberg issues a video to say that "Quest 3 is the better product, period"
https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/24072413/mark-z...
I guess he felt he had to come out and say something seen as how Meta's VR Labs lost another $4.65 Billion this last quarter. They have lost over $42 Billion since 2020.
https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/24072413/mark-z...
I guess he felt he had to come out and say something seen as how Meta's VR Labs lost another $4.65 Billion this last quarter. They have lost over $42 Billion since 2020.
Edited by Mont Blanc on Thursday 15th February 15:57
lizardbrain said:
I dunno, I’ve never had a solo cinema or room experience that comes close to the overall audio experience of simple apple AirPods Pro 2 and Apple TV.
The cons esp bass I can agree on, but there are a lot of there are a ton of compromises involved in group viewing that headphones never have to fight . Add in the latest spatial 2 channel tech and the quality of life features and it’s not close imo.
Part of the problem is whatever crappy ambient mic they are using to record dialogue these days!
But the relevance to AVP is I think there are some potentially interesting advances looming for vr cinema and I think apple is the one to do it
I'm a big fan of earphones too and invested in a set with a balanced armature and dynamic driver set up, which gives you all the benefits of dynamic drivers (decent bass and midrange) with the balanced armature drivers pulling out the midrange to high frequencies with incredible accuracy and instrument separation. Its as high fidelity as you'll get without getting into crazy money. It's a real joy listening to well mastered tracks through earphones.The cons esp bass I can agree on, but there are a lot of there are a ton of compromises involved in group viewing that headphones never have to fight . Add in the latest spatial 2 channel tech and the quality of life features and it’s not close imo.
Part of the problem is whatever crappy ambient mic they are using to record dialogue these days!
But the relevance to AVP is I think there are some potentially interesting advances looming for vr cinema and I think apple is the one to do it
When I compare those to my floorstanding Focal speakers, which have focals well renowned W (sandwich) drivers, I have to admit the earphones can pull out even better detail than those speakers. No room reflections or boundary gain to contend with will always help.
So if I had to pick one for music, it would be the earphones. For dance or bass heavy music it would be the speaker/sub set up but for pretty much most other music, earphones I find best quality.
That flips around for me when it comes to movies. I'm 100% not using them for movies. Channel separation is just better on a well set up home cinema. The clarity and movements/blends between speakers as the sound moves around is never properly replicated in earphones but spatial audio still makes it an enjoyable experience, it's just not up there with proper independent channels from well positioned speakers IMO.
I've spent quite a lot of time (in fact, far too much time) on image science and audio science with light meters, spl meters, colour calibration and worked with quite a few knowledgeable people across the Atlantic in DIY home theatre set up so I'm fairly up to speed in optimisation for audio and video. I do agree that a poorly set up home cinema can be beaten by a set of earphones, simply because of the plug and play nature of earphones. But when home cinema is done properly, it's a fantastic experience.
I've seen myself sitting at 4am in my movie room with an ND filter on the projector lens and I'm measuring light at that screen, then behind the screen (acoustically transparent) and calculating light loss at different light outputs to calculate my screen gain
Or maybe I'm moving my subwoofer around and measuring spl at the different seating positions and 20hz/30/40 etc and then plugging the results into an Excel sheet to chart it
yeah, I'm a nerd
Now I think about it, probably best to just use earphones tbh
I don't know what the point of this is, but it's a good thing I have better things to waste ££££ on right now, otherwise I suspect I would find it nearly impossible not to buy a Vision Pro 
https://youtu.be/I5puKFpjv4U?si=TAz84Ddx0qy1MIGX
https://youtu.be/I5puKFpjv4U?si=TAz84Ddx0qy1MIGX
Mont Blanc said:
Zuckerberg issues a video to say that "Quest 3 is the better product, period"
https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/24072413/mark-z...
I guess he felt he had to come out and say something seen as how Meta's VR Labs lost another $4.65 Billion this last quarter. They have lost over $42 Billion since 2020.
How on earth have they lost that much. If you had team of well paid dollar bill burners working in shifts 24/7 for 3 years you'd struggle to burn 42bn.https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/24072413/mark-z...
I guess he felt he had to come out and say something seen as how Meta's VR Labs lost another $4.65 Billion this last quarter. They have lost over $42 Billion since 2020.
Edited by Mont Blanc on Thursday 15th February 15:57
TGCOTF-dewey said:
How on earth have they lost that much. If you had team of well paid dollar bill burners working in shifts 24/7 for 3 years you'd struggle to burn 42bn.
I am about as far away from a tech expert as you could get, but from what I read, they have spent most of it 'developing the metaverse'. This includes:
Building the company structure to support the metaverse.
Advancement of A.I and using A.I tools to develop software faster.
Developing Horizon Worlds and other VR environments and games.
Developing the a global hardware backbone to support VR environments, localised servers and hardware to deliver a low latency VR experience.
TGCOTF-dewey said:
How on earth have they lost that much. If you had team of well paid dollar bill burners working in shifts 24/7 for 3 years you'd struggle to burn 42bn.
I'm amazed apparently 18 million people have spent actual ££££ on something made by FaceBook. The last time I logged into FaceBook it appeared to have turned into a massive spamming portal with the occasional person trying to get hold of your paypal/payment details through various scams. I'm not sure I would want try any kind of VR experience from FaceBook even if it was free? gangzoom said:
TGCOTF-dewey said:
How on earth have they lost that much. If you had team of well paid dollar bill burners working in shifts 24/7 for 3 years you'd struggle to burn 42bn.
I'm amazed apparently 18 million people have spent actual ££££ on something made by FaceBook. The last time I logged into FaceBook it appeared to have turned into a massive spamming portal with the occasional person trying to get hold of your paypal/payment details through various scams. I'm not sure I would want try any kind of VR experience from FaceBook even if it was free? gangzoom said:
TGCOTF-dewey said:
How on earth have they lost that much. If you had team of well paid dollar bill burners working in shifts 24/7 for 3 years you'd struggle to burn 42bn.
I'm amazed apparently 18 million people have spent actual ££££ on something made by FaceBook. The last time I logged into FaceBook it appeared to have turned into a massive spamming portal with the occasional person trying to get hold of your paypal/payment details through various scams. I'm not sure I would want try any kind of VR experience from FaceBook even if it was free? I got it mainly to play virtual table tennis (man maths justification was it's cheaper than a TT table and good robot ball launcher as well as using much less space), and have to say that I'm actually very impressed with it not just for the table tennis, but lots of other games and apps on it.
I think that there is a bit of an incorrect assumption that the Quest headsets are "Facebook". Yes, they are both owned by Meta, but, although I have a Facebook account, which I mainly use for keeping in contact with various (private) interest groups, my Facebook account has absolutely no connection to the Quest 3 headset.
On getting the Quest 3, I simply set up a separate user account, to enable me to link the headset with my phone, buy, and download apps/games. It's simply a separate VR gaming/apps device, and not at all linked to Facebook if you don't want it to be.
Regarding the Apple Vision Pro, despite using and liking Apple kit (iPhone 12, old Macbook, old Mac Pro), the AVP is far too expensive for me, and I couldn't begin to justify it with any current use cases. I have no doubt that it's technically a superior product to the Quest 3 (e.g. OLED screens as opposed to LCD), and looking into the future, it wouldn't surprise me if the AVP "may" possibly be the early indicator of the way things will develop going forward (possibly like when the original iPhone was released). I've never really been an early adopter of stuff, but will watch developments with interest, and certainly don't discount the possibility that at some point I may indeed end up with an AVP, although it'll be a v5, v6 etc..
gangzoom said:
TGCOTF-dewey said:
How on earth have they lost that much. If you had team of well paid dollar bill burners working in shifts 24/7 for 3 years you'd struggle to burn 42bn.
I'm amazed apparently 18 million people have spent actual ££££ on something made by FaceBook. The last time I logged into FaceBook it appeared to have turned into a massive spamming portal with the occasional person trying to get hold of your paypal/payment details through various scams. I'm not sure I would want try any kind of VR experience from FaceBook even if it was free? I’m sure you the Apple one is more polished, but price wise the Meta Quest seems like a bargain and I’ve had no issues with it so far,
I was potentially interested in the Vision Pro... so, on a whim, I bought a Quest 3 to see what the experience was like.
I am not a gamer, but I am a film watcher. Some random thoughts:
No Netflix on the Quest - except in low resolution. Amazon can be viewed by mirroring the browser - it's sort of OK.
There is some YouTube content which is staggeringly good, I watched a 360 nature documentary yesterday, looked behind me and there was a lioness right by me - it was utterly shocking and felt very real.
There are a few virtual backgrounds - a cinema, for example and a modernist lounge that are almost completely real.
Music is good if it's well filmed.
Will I invest in the Apple? No, not now - I think it's simply a higher quality viewer with the same limitations. And it does feel limited by content. Myt Quest came with a free game, some immersive Nordic adventure. It was interesting to look down at my very realistic arms and legs, but I was bored within 5 minutes.
Good (non game) content seems thin on the ground - when it's good (immersive) it's very impressive.
End of random thoughts!
I am not a gamer, but I am a film watcher. Some random thoughts:
No Netflix on the Quest - except in low resolution. Amazon can be viewed by mirroring the browser - it's sort of OK.
There is some YouTube content which is staggeringly good, I watched a 360 nature documentary yesterday, looked behind me and there was a lioness right by me - it was utterly shocking and felt very real.
There are a few virtual backgrounds - a cinema, for example and a modernist lounge that are almost completely real.
Music is good if it's well filmed.
Will I invest in the Apple? No, not now - I think it's simply a higher quality viewer with the same limitations. And it does feel limited by content. Myt Quest came with a free game, some immersive Nordic adventure. It was interesting to look down at my very realistic arms and legs, but I was bored within 5 minutes.
Good (non game) content seems thin on the ground - when it's good (immersive) it's very impressive.
End of random thoughts!
NDA said:
I was potentially interested in the Vision Pro... so, on a whim, I bought a Quest 3 to see what the experience was like.
I am not a gamer, but I am a film watcher. Some random thoughts:
No Netflix on the Quest - except in low resolution. Amazon can be viewed by mirroring the browser - it's sort of OK.
There is some YouTube content which is staggeringly good, I watched a 360 nature documentary yesterday, looked behind me and there was a lioness right by me - it was utterly shocking and felt very real.
There are a few virtual backgrounds - a cinema, for example and a modernist lounge that are almost completely real.
Music is good if it's well filmed.
Will I invest in the Apple? No, not now - I think it's simply a higher quality viewer with the same limitations. And it does feel limited by content. Myt Quest came with a free game, some immersive Nordic adventure. It was interesting to look down at my very realistic arms and legs, but I was bored within 5 minutes.
Good (non game) content seems thin on the ground - when it's good (immersive) it's very impressive.
End of random thoughts!
I watched a video on the Vison Pro yesterday which said it would be good for Quest 3 sales, for this exact reason. People taking an interest only because Apple have entered the arena, but not ready to part with over £3k.I am not a gamer, but I am a film watcher. Some random thoughts:
No Netflix on the Quest - except in low resolution. Amazon can be viewed by mirroring the browser - it's sort of OK.
There is some YouTube content which is staggeringly good, I watched a 360 nature documentary yesterday, looked behind me and there was a lioness right by me - it was utterly shocking and felt very real.
There are a few virtual backgrounds - a cinema, for example and a modernist lounge that are almost completely real.
Music is good if it's well filmed.
Will I invest in the Apple? No, not now - I think it's simply a higher quality viewer with the same limitations. And it does feel limited by content. Myt Quest came with a free game, some immersive Nordic adventure. It was interesting to look down at my very realistic arms and legs, but I was bored within 5 minutes.
Good (non game) content seems thin on the ground - when it's good (immersive) it's very impressive.
End of random thoughts!
NDA said:
I was potentially interested in the Vision Pro... so, on a whim, I bought a Quest 3 to see what the experience was like.
I am not a gamer, but I am a film watcher. Some random thoughts:
No Netflix on the Quest - except in low resolution. Amazon can be viewed by mirroring the browser - it's sort of OK.
There is some YouTube content which is staggeringly good, I watched a 360 nature documentary yesterday, looked behind me and there was a lioness right by me - it was utterly shocking and felt very real.
There are a few virtual backgrounds - a cinema, for example and a modernist lounge that are almost completely real.
Music is good if it's well filmed.
Will I invest in the Apple? No, not now - I think it's simply a higher quality viewer with the same limitations. And it does feel limited by content. Myt Quest came with a free game, some immersive Nordic adventure. It was interesting to look down at my very realistic arms and legs, but I was bored within 5 minutes.
Good (non game) content seems thin on the ground - when it's good (immersive) it's very impressive.
End of random thoughts!
It's really difficult to find content that stretches the potential of quest 3. Streamers offer highly degraded experiences to what is possible. With honourable exception of poorly lit home movies in passthrough 8k, your choices are very limited. Meta doesn't seem at all interested in leaning on streamers to push the limits of the device.I am not a gamer, but I am a film watcher. Some random thoughts:
No Netflix on the Quest - except in low resolution. Amazon can be viewed by mirroring the browser - it's sort of OK.
There is some YouTube content which is staggeringly good, I watched a 360 nature documentary yesterday, looked behind me and there was a lioness right by me - it was utterly shocking and felt very real.
There are a few virtual backgrounds - a cinema, for example and a modernist lounge that are almost completely real.
Music is good if it's well filmed.
Will I invest in the Apple? No, not now - I think it's simply a higher quality viewer with the same limitations. And it does feel limited by content. Myt Quest came with a free game, some immersive Nordic adventure. It was interesting to look down at my very realistic arms and legs, but I was bored within 5 minutes.
Good (non game) content seems thin on the ground - when it's good (immersive) it's very impressive.
End of random thoughts!
SpudLink said:
I watched a video on the Vison Pro yesterday which said it would be good for Quest 3 sales, for this exact reason. People taking an interest only because Apple have entered the arena, but not ready to part with over £3k.
I subscribe to Marques Brownlee's channel on YouTube - he's a clever guy, a tech reviewer and has an easy style, I guess most people have heard of him.He mentioned on his podcast recently (maybe that was the review you saw?) that Vision Pro would be good for Quest 3 sales. Bingo! I bought the Quest as a direct result of reading so much about the Apple product... He was spot on.
Now I have the Quest, I think it's the same difference as choosing between the top Zeiss binoculars or a very good cheaper brand - but you have nothing to look at!
Currently (and I'm only a couple of days in) there seems very little about them other than having a large screen right in front of you and some (by that I mean very little) content that shows it off.
I accept that if I were a gamer, it might be different.
NDA said:
SpudLink said:
I watched a video on the Vison Pro yesterday which said it would be good for Quest 3 sales, for this exact reason. People taking an interest only because Apple have entered the arena, but not ready to part with over £3k.
I subscribe to Marques Brownlee's channel on YouTube - he's a clever guy, a tech reviewer and has an easy style, I guess most people have heard of him.He mentioned on his podcast recently (maybe that was the review you saw?) that Vision Pro would be good for Quest 3 sales. Bingo! I bought the Quest as a direct result of reading so much about the Apple product... He was spot on.
Now I have the Quest, I think it's the same difference as choosing between the top Zeiss binoculars or a very good cheaper brand - but you have nothing to look at!
Currently (and I'm only a couple of days in) there seems very little about them other than having a large screen right in front of you and some (by that I mean very little) content that shows it off.
I accept that if I were a gamer, it might be different.
I've had an Apple device of some sort in the house since the mid 90s, so I could be called a fan. But I also don't feel the need to buy the latest thing just because it's the latest thing. More so as I get older.
At some point there will be enough content for me to justify buying a VR headset. At that point I'll decide whether the best option for me is Vision Pro 4, Quest 6. or whatever is on the market.
TGCOTF-dewey said:
Mont Blanc said:
Zuckerberg issues a video to say that "Quest 3 is the better product, period"
https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/24072413/mark-z...
I guess he felt he had to come out and say something seen as how Meta's VR Labs lost another $4.65 Billion this last quarter. They have lost over $42 Billion since 2020.
How on earth have they lost that much. If you had team of well paid dollar bill burners working in shifts 24/7 for 3 years you'd struggle to burn 42bn.https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/24072413/mark-z...
I guess he felt he had to come out and say something seen as how Meta's VR Labs lost another $4.65 Billion this last quarter. They have lost over $42 Billion since 2020.
Edited by Mont Blanc on Thursday 15th February 15:57
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