Wireless.... Aargh
Discussion
What a pain. I have a customer who has two sets of Toshiba Satellite Pro A10 laptops. One set use the Agere wireless chipset, one use Intel.
They all fell off the wireless network after SP2 rolled out automatically :irked:
I got the Agere's back on after updating the driver, but the Intel's have a lovely idiosyncracy. The driver is quasi user mode. It only activates using a logged in account post login. That's about as much use as a chocolate fireguard in a domain environment :irked:
After mucho digging, it appears you have to install the Single Sign On driver And Pre Network Service (That's almost the name, but not quite, brains frazzled!)
This combination authenticates to a RADIUS server to keep the wireless connection active when the user logs off.
What a PITA, I've got to set up RADIUS etc just to get the wireless working to enable the laptops to actually log on.
It's a generic Intel 8022B? driver, because Toshiba don't do a driver for XP with the Intel chipset.
Anyone else hit this or got a sneaky workaround?
They all fell off the wireless network after SP2 rolled out automatically :irked:
I got the Agere's back on after updating the driver, but the Intel's have a lovely idiosyncracy. The driver is quasi user mode. It only activates using a logged in account post login. That's about as much use as a chocolate fireguard in a domain environment :irked:
After mucho digging, it appears you have to install the Single Sign On driver And Pre Network Service (That's almost the name, but not quite, brains frazzled!)
This combination authenticates to a RADIUS server to keep the wireless connection active when the user logs off.
What a PITA, I've got to set up RADIUS etc just to get the wireless working to enable the laptops to actually log on.
It's a generic Intel 8022B? driver, because Toshiba don't do a driver for XP with the Intel chipset.
Anyone else hit this or got a sneaky workaround?
What a PITA, never come accross this, but then I don't manage any domains or use XP 
However, setting up RADIUS isn't too difficult, you should be able to get it running on the DC without much hassle.
I've done a lot of work with RADIUS - but unfortunately it's all low level protocol stuff, I once set up RADIUS on a Win2K Server but it was a long long time ago.
Mainly, I actually write RADIUS server code for accessing statellite systems, I also have scriptable RADIUS protocol testers that I've written.
So, I could heplp you out with the low level RADIUS packets, but as for setting it up on your DC I'm about as much use as your chocolate fireguard.
However if you need an overview of what RADIUS is about and how it works, drop me a line.
best
Ex
However, setting up RADIUS isn't too difficult, you should be able to get it running on the DC without much hassle.
I've done a lot of work with RADIUS - but unfortunately it's all low level protocol stuff, I once set up RADIUS on a Win2K Server but it was a long long time ago.
Mainly, I actually write RADIUS server code for accessing statellite systems, I also have scriptable RADIUS protocol testers that I've written.
So, I could heplp you out with the low level RADIUS packets, but as for setting it up on your DC I'm about as much use as your chocolate fireguard.
However if you need an overview of what RADIUS is about and how it works, drop me a line.
best
Ex
UpTheIron said:
What a PITA, never come accross this, but then I don't manage any domains or use XP
Or let XP SP2 "rollout out automatically"
End user networks.... It's still the lesser of two evils
Ex, that may come in handy! Have you got any good primers on setting up and using RADIUS on 2K3 kicking about? I've installed the RADIUS server (IAS) but I got fed up and left site to do my homework
Why they can't just write a system level driver I'll never know
Had this problem with some Dynamode cards on 2K, no connectivity untill the little systray applet loads (after logon... doh) So couldnt log on to the Netware box 
Hacked around it by searching thru the registry for the executable for a service they were never going to use (picked something about smart cards... pitty the poor b'stard who tries to install a smartcard reader on that machine in the distant future
). Change it to run the wireless card's applet instead of the gay smartcard reader .exe - can't remember if I had to ammend the logon account details for the service or not but in any case, job done.
the only bugger was that occasionaly you could 'beat' the service startup if you were quick at hitting ctrl-alt-del after booting up (this was a Celeron 300...) Maybe with some more tweakage this could be worked around but TBH the user never mentioned a problem so I forgot about it.
HTH
Neil
Ps: In XP, isn't there an 'allow windows to manage this connection' (or somesuch) box that will mean that the Windows wireless service configures the card rather than the card's own utillity, avoiding this problem?
>> Edited by aldi on Thursday 6th October 21:46
Hacked around it by searching thru the registry for the executable for a service they were never going to use (picked something about smart cards... pitty the poor b'stard who tries to install a smartcard reader on that machine in the distant future
). Change it to run the wireless card's applet instead of the gay smartcard reader .exe - can't remember if I had to ammend the logon account details for the service or not but in any case, job done. the only bugger was that occasionaly you could 'beat' the service startup if you were quick at hitting ctrl-alt-del after booting up (this was a Celeron 300...) Maybe with some more tweakage this could be worked around but TBH the user never mentioned a problem so I forgot about it.
HTH
Neil
Ps: In XP, isn't there an 'allow windows to manage this connection' (or somesuch) box that will mean that the Windows wireless service configures the card rather than the card's own utillity, avoiding this problem?
>> Edited by aldi on Thursday 6th October 21:46
Why do you use the supplied application to manage the WiFi connection, why not use the ZCU (Zero Configuration Utility) within SP2...? I have machines logging in over wireless to a 2k3DC with no problems.
Edited to say, one of the machines that logs on is a Centrino laptop with Intel 2200BG WiFi.
Roop
>> Edited by roop on Thursday 6th October 21:45
Edited to say, one of the machines that logs on is a Centrino laptop with Intel 2200BG WiFi.
Roop
>> Edited by roop on Thursday 6th October 21:45
I started out using the ZCU this morning with the Intel cards. They would acquire a DHCP address and then promptly fall off the network a random time later. The Agere's had the same problem, so I updated the drivers and they started behaving, but the Intel's just wouldn't. It's been a FFS, this should work day 
kinda day, so I've walked away to clear my head.
If I use the Intel ProSet, they acquire a DHCP address and stay on the network indefinitely. Unfortunately when you log off, they disconnect and you can't log onto the domain. Current train of thought, set them up to authenticate to RADIUS in the background.
However, if anyone has any insight as to why they fall off the network when using the ZCU then I'm all ears.
I'll recap where I am:
If you go into the advanced settings in ZCU and re-enter the passphrase, they go straight back on the network.... And then fall off a short while later. The IP address is back to the autoconfigure address
I'm using WEP, and I've opened up the access point nearby. It's visible and using channel 1 so it's not a US driver limitation with the access point running above channel 11.
DHCP leases are set to one day, the machines can reaquire at will. 802.1x is turned off when using ZCU and the windoze firewall is disabled.
WTF have I missed?
FFS, this should work day kinda day, so I've walked away to clear my head. If I use the Intel ProSet, they acquire a DHCP address and stay on the network indefinitely. Unfortunately when you log off, they disconnect and you can't log onto the domain. Current train of thought, set them up to authenticate to RADIUS in the background.
However, if anyone has any insight as to why they fall off the network when using the ZCU then I'm all ears.
I'll recap where I am:
If you go into the advanced settings in ZCU and re-enter the passphrase, they go straight back on the network.... And then fall off a short while later. The IP address is back to the autoconfigure address
I'm using WEP, and I've opened up the access point nearby. It's visible and using channel 1 so it's not a US driver limitation with the access point running above channel 11.
DHCP leases are set to one day, the machines can reaquire at will. 802.1x is turned off when using ZCU and the windoze firewall is disabled.
WTF have I missed?
Sounds familiar... try setting the access point to another channel?
I'm using the IntelPro Wireless software on my HP/compaq nx8220, the drivers that came with her were nasty!
I am running W2003 server on her though, different kettle I know, but after playing around with the channels I got things to work... I'm using DHCP too...
I'm using the IntelPro Wireless software on my HP/compaq nx8220, the drivers that came with her were nasty!
I am running W2003 server on her though, different kettle I know, but after playing around with the channels I got things to work... I'm using DHCP too...
Done that, there's access points all over the shop, but we made sure it's on channel 1 and there's no conflicts.
AP's are fine, been working for a couple of years and the Agere's work quite happily with them.
So, why would the ZCU drop the IP address after a few minutes when ProSet doesn't? That's the missing piece of the puzzle.
AP's are fine, been working for a couple of years and the Agere's work quite happily with them.
So, why would the ZCU drop the IP address after a few minutes when ProSet doesn't? That's the missing piece of the puzzle.
Hrm, this is sounding more familiar. I have a 3Com OfficeConnect box in my gaff. It's an ADSL modem, firewall, router, wireless whatever all in one. I run two Dell machines in the house - a desktop and a laptop. Desktop has a 3Com USB 11g adapter and the laptop had the built-in Dell 11g wireless. My other laptop is a Samsung X20 with Intel 2200BG wireless as a part of the Centrino package, if I have the other two machines on, the Samsung will log on the network and then after a few minutes will drop off, reconnect and fail to reacquire the IP address so I get the 'limited or no connectivity' message. This is regardless of whether I use ZCU or the ProSet utility.
Got a few mates round and there were 3 of us all on X20's and my Dell logged on to the AP. The Samsungs just wouldn't stay on, kept getting booted off left right and centre.
I have noticed that the connection speed on the X20's is slower as well. Anywhere in my apartment, the Dell laptop gets a solid 54MBit/s link, sometimes falling back to 48MBit/s. I am currently on the X20, six feet direct LOS from the AP and I have 36MBit/s link. Sometimes, the further away I go, the better it is on the X20. I just wonder if there's too much receive gain and the front-end of the wireless radio is getting overloaded.
I have fiddled with the driver settings on the X20 laptop to no avail. I think some AP's just don't like the Intel wireless chipset. IMHO it's not a patch on the one in my £350 Dell. Slower, less range and a lot more problematic.
Sorry, this doesn't help much - no suggestions for a fix, but you could try moving further from the AP's perhaps...
Got a few mates round and there were 3 of us all on X20's and my Dell logged on to the AP. The Samsungs just wouldn't stay on, kept getting booted off left right and centre.
I have noticed that the connection speed on the X20's is slower as well. Anywhere in my apartment, the Dell laptop gets a solid 54MBit/s link, sometimes falling back to 48MBit/s. I am currently on the X20, six feet direct LOS from the AP and I have 36MBit/s link. Sometimes, the further away I go, the better it is on the X20. I just wonder if there's too much receive gain and the front-end of the wireless radio is getting overloaded.
I have fiddled with the driver settings on the X20 laptop to no avail. I think some AP's just don't like the Intel wireless chipset. IMHO it's not a patch on the one in my £350 Dell. Slower, less range and a lot more problematic.
Sorry, this doesn't help much - no suggestions for a fix, but you could try moving further from the AP's perhaps...
Have a butchers at this fella - seems it's commonplace
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=11402&page=9
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=11402&page=9
Okay Rob, after messing about with all sorts of different drivers, the latest generic Intel drivers seem to have done the trick for me. Download them from the following site and give them a go.
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/9250/eng/wireless_9.0.2.1_-_generic_TIC_100507.exe
What I would say is full uninstall existing drivers and ProSet application first, don't just pile them on top.
Lemme know how you get on.
Cheers,
Roop
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/9250/eng/wireless_9.0.2.1_-_generic_TIC_100507.exe
What I would say is full uninstall existing drivers and ProSet application first, don't just pile them on top.
Lemme know how you get on.
Cheers,
Roop
I *think* they are the ones I was using, I downloaded the ones from Intel yesterday, but maybe not that exact version. I did install directoy over the top, so that may have something to do with it.
Are you using the ZCU to connect now? When I used Proset, it works just fine, but the problem is it needs to be logged in first, hence won't get on a domain.
Are you using the ZCU to connect now? When I used Proset, it works just fine, but the problem is it needs to be logged in first, hence won't get on a domain.
Well, I thought I had it cracked but no, it all went arse over apex again shortly after. I too am logging into a domain so have to use ProSet - what a PITA.
As a workaround I have dual configured the TCP/IP of the adapter so the primary config is details via DHCP but an alternate config of a fixed IP in the fixed IP address range of my router. I'll let you know how this works, but so far so good.
Jees, I'm amazed Intel got away with releasing this crap...!
Edited to say, even if you log in with ProSet enabled then switch to ZCU, it still slings the IP addres away after 5 minutes, so it's a driver/firmware issue rather than an issue with ProSet per se.
>> Edited by roop on Friday 7th October 17:53
As a workaround I have dual configured the TCP/IP of the adapter so the primary config is details via DHCP but an alternate config of a fixed IP in the fixed IP address range of my router. I'll let you know how this works, but so far so good.
Jees, I'm amazed Intel got away with releasing this crap...!
Edited to say, even if you log in with ProSet enabled then switch to ZCU, it still slings the IP addres away after 5 minutes, so it's a driver/firmware issue rather than an issue with ProSet per se.
>> Edited by roop on Friday 7th October 17:53
Good thinking about the secondary IP 
If that works, I'll use it as a workaround.
We need some protocol boys here to figure the problem out. Unfortunately the driver/ZCU doesn't provide any feedback or obvious method of debugging that I can see.
I don't fancy doing any packet traces, as all that will tell me is something is broke and needs a patch.
The obvious question that needs answering is why would ZCU drop a valid DHCP lease? Know the answer to that and we will find the solution. I'm not back on site until Wednesday, so I haven't got any feedback.
Edited to add
Can you try this out?
The reason you get the 169.254.XXX.XXX address is because Windows will apply that address as a default if it does not receive a DHCP assignment. It has been my experience that this happens before a DHCP connection is made sometimes putting you on the wrong subnet. The fix is easy ... defeat the automatic IP assignemnt feature in XP.
Do the following: (from the Microsoft website)
With REGEDIT open
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESYSTEMCurrentControlSetServicesTcpipParameters.
Click on the parameters folder
Click Edit
Click New and then click DWORD Value
Enter the following: IPAutoconfigurationEnabled
Righ click the new entry and then click Modify
Verify that the value is zero or make it 0.
Exit Registry editor and reboot.
The zero value disables the auto IP assign feature. To re-enable either delete the DWORD entry or change the value to 1.
Now when you boot up your network address will have be whatever the DHCP assigns.
>> Edited by BliarOut on Friday 7th October 18:14
If that works, I'll use it as a workaround.
We need some protocol boys here to figure the problem out. Unfortunately the driver/ZCU doesn't provide any feedback or obvious method of debugging that I can see.
I don't fancy doing any packet traces, as all that will tell me is something is broke and needs a patch.
The obvious question that needs answering is why would ZCU drop a valid DHCP lease? Know the answer to that and we will find the solution. I'm not back on site until Wednesday, so I haven't got any feedback.
Edited to add
Can you try this out?
The reason you get the 169.254.XXX.XXX address is because Windows will apply that address as a default if it does not receive a DHCP assignment. It has been my experience that this happens before a DHCP connection is made sometimes putting you on the wrong subnet. The fix is easy ... defeat the automatic IP assignemnt feature in XP.
Do the following: (from the Microsoft website)
With REGEDIT open
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESYSTEMCurrentControlSetServicesTcpipParameters.
Click on the parameters folder
Click Edit
Click New and then click DWORD Value
Enter the following: IPAutoconfigurationEnabled
Righ click the new entry and then click Modify
Verify that the value is zero or make it 0.
Exit Registry editor and reboot.
The zero value disables the auto IP assign feature. To re-enable either delete the DWORD entry or change the value to 1.
Now when you boot up your network address will have be whatever the DHCP assigns.
>> Edited by BliarOut on Friday 7th October 18:14
It's the adapter drivers that handle the IP addressing as it ditches the IP regardless of whether you use ZCU or ProSet. ZCU and ProSet are not at fault here, it's either driver or firmware IMO. I guess at a long shot, it could be an issue with the hardware itself, but that's less likely. Having said that, Intel made a gaffe with the original P60 and P66 so who's to say they can't balls up a wireless chipset...?
I'll have a go with that fix and see what happens this end.
I'll have a go with that fix and see what happens this end.
I made the change and all that happened is I never got an IP address. It was hunting for DHCP for ages. I finally gave up, changed the registry back and implemented alternate IP again. Seems to be the best option at the moment. I have my router set up with DHCP assigning from a pool from 192.168.0.2 through 192.168.0.99 leaving the rest free for manual assignment (VoIP box, server and now laptop) etc...
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