Being a mini ISP

[aldi]

A few of my neighbours are thinking about getting broadband, three or maybe four. I got to thinking, I could plop an access point on my windowsill charge them £5/month each and effectively have free broadband myself. Maybe even up the speed a bit. They're all relative newbies so I don't think they'd be heavy users. Pure 11g access points can be had for £20 ish all-in on ebay so I'd turn a 'profit' in 4 months or so. I'd probably buy all the kit and retain ownership myself. Has anyone done this kind of thing themselves? Any pitfalls to be aware of? Is it worth it overall?

Cheers
Neil

[Kinky]

If they download hardcore porn or other (worse) stuff then you'd be liable as it's your BB connection and your responsibility.

So you might run out of download bandwidth after a month or 2 (if they police that), having the contract cancelled due to 'inappropriate use' or even worse .... the BiB knocking on the door .....

K

[neilly500]

I wouldn't recommend doing this - firstly you can't control what other users are looking at.... and secondly broadband speeds are increasing rapidly and costs decreasing rapidly so you 'customers' will soon be aware they can get 8mbps plus for about a tenner a month!!!

[aldi]

Bandwidth is unlimited, and hardcore porn isn't a problem, but the Pete Townsend factor is worthy of consideration... I could get the users to sign a get out of jail free card for me but now you mention it if I ever used it, it seems my ISP would take it and shove it up my arse sideways... OK maybe not worth it for fifteen notes a month then

[ultimasimon]

I have done this for my mate who rents all his rooms for students on one of his houses.

Heres how it works:

* He charges them £10pm each and has 2mb d/l bandwidth. There are six students in his place.

* They have agreed to only use it for surfing and mail and not for d/l or porn.

* Then we set up loads of blocked sites using keyword filtering on the Router.

* The router was set to email any violations to him at his other address.

* Router also has most ports blocked like FTP etc.

* All conections are over wireless and have WKA and mac address filtering so no one else can just hookup.

Its been in for nearly 5 mnths now, and only one cause for complaint where a student was d/ling porn - gay porn actually As soon as this was taken up with him (reported via email from the router), it stopped straight away.

Because they live in a bedsit they are grateful of the service. If they take the preverbial, they lose their internet and its as easy as that

My mate is charged £17.99 Pm for the broadband and he gets £60 pm back from it. Also his CCTV pics are emailed to him via the same network so he knows who is going in and out as well, and at what time. All based on trust.

How cool is that

[dirkgently]

ultimasimon said:

All based on trust.

I’m glad your mate doesn’t "trust" me.

[aldi]

Ultimason, I bet your keyword list makes interesting reading

Hmm coming back round to the idea now, my router is a linux box with a modem hanging off it so I *could* keep logs of site access, throttle back people hogging bandwidth etc. I could run squid on port 80 and use standard log analysis stuff? The only issue I guess is that I've probably aggreed with my ISP not to do this! I think the chances of it going pete tong are slim though knowing the people I'd be reselling to. They're all *just about* capable of sending an email, but that's about it at the moment..

I'm gonna do it

Cheers peeps!!

[GreenV8S]

I doubt there's an ISP in the country that would consider this reselling to be acceptable use.

[ultimasimon]

aldi said:

Ultimason, I bet your keyword list makes interesting reading Hmm coming back round to the idea now, my router is a linux box with a modem hanging off it so I *could* keep logs of site access, throttle back people hogging bandwidth etc. I could run squid on port 80 and use standard log analysis stuff? The only issue I guess is that I've probably agreed with my ISP not to do this! I think the chances of it going pete tong are slim though knowing the people I'd be reselling to. They're all *just about* capable of sending an email, but that's about it at the moment.. I'm gonna do it Cheers peeps!!

Let us know how you get on. Your half way their for your 'risk assessment' anyway with a linux box - that is the proper way to go. We just used a boggo Netgear Router. Worst case scenario the ISP bans you (which I have never heard of in 10 years of IT management - very unlikely). Next step, sign up with another, its not like there is only Compuserve or AOL (how its used to be when the internet begun).

GreenV8S said:

I doubt there's an ISP in the country that would consider this reselling to be acceptable use.

And yes, it's quite probably not, I am sure the ISP wouldn't be too happy but:

BT and the like has been ripping us off for bloody years. When I first got my ADSL account (ten years ago) they charged me £40 plus VAT PM for a half meg line for one user. If I wanted multi-user I had to have the router as well, and they were going to charged £70 plus vat per month Robbing bar stuards Same bandwidth Before that they robbed me yet again with ISDN lines x 2 and two lots of connection charges etc..I have had four telephone lines and a pabx in this house for ten years so they get their monies worth from me. Rip off Britain indeed. In the US I believe their local calls are all free and broadband is half the price.

The worm has turned; and the worm has an informed choice.

You can liken the impact of downloading music and films as to why DVD and music prices have dropped - because the music industry had been ripping the pants out of everyone for decades..now there is an alternative - people steal their music. Why? If the music industry had asked reasonable money for their music in the first place, and not had greedy band managers in place taking such a large slice, music would be cheaper, and no one would bother to download it, they would just go and buy it.

Same with imported vehicles. In the 90's a lot of motorcyclists discovered that importing their dream machine could save them up to 35% on a new model - that is a lot of money. What happened next? Cars followed suit.

End result = Cars and bikes were a lot cheaper than they were before. Now vehicle prices are at an all time low.


So what future does the ISP hold? Well there is no money in being an ISP as its price wars at the moment across the board. What more can they offer? Bigger download capacity? More storage space?? Don't think so, who can honestly say they can use 10meg d/l (which is what we currently get from Telewest for £35pm)? On what exactly, porn, films, mp3 etc, all of which are illegal - but still the ISP's allow it. Yes the music Fed is cracking skulls, but slowly as they cannot possibly bring to court every rule breaker.

Times are changing mark my words, and the future of ISP's will be governed to some extent by what the user (who pays the bills) want, and not by jur-is-my-diction. Most half meg customers are now paying the same now for their 2meg lines.

In five years time, having a high end PC will be fading out as Cable type boxes replace them when the ISP's get where the want to be, and Google will be 'the internet'. In ten years time the only thing that seperates the Jones from the Smiths will be the Plasma/LCD display devices around the house.. all 'data' will be either held by Google, or during the transition period, on NAS systems within the home.. and you can quote me on that

Edited for awful on the fly spelling etc

>> Edited by ultimasimon on Saturday 31st December 15:10

[aldi]

GreenV8S said:

I doubt there's an ISP in the country that would consider this reselling to be acceptable use.

I thought about the moral issue for a while, I think it basically boils down to the ISP selling me 1 meg and me paying them the full asking price. If I can then use my local situation to my advantage, then that's just lucky for me. It's not like I'm going to be taking more from them than I've allready paid for. Does Ford prosecute people for car-sharing?

[dilbert]

aldi said:

GreenV8S said: I doubt there's an ISP in the country that would consider this reselling to be acceptable use. I thought about the moral issue for a while, I think it basically boils down to the ISP selling me 1 meg and me paying them the full asking price. If I can then use my local situation to my advantage, then that's just lucky for me. It's not like I'm going to be taking more from them than I've allready paid for. Does Ford prosecute people for car-sharing?

Ahhh yes... But I'd bet they would if they could!

Ultimasimon..... I think you could be right about your basic idea. On the other hand, I think your idea stems from the idea that the internet is connected by wires. Think about wireless and the difficulty of global conglomerates penetrating the local marketplace.

[aldi]

ultimasimon said:

Lots of interesting stuff

Thats probably quite true, if you could easily do basic web browsing from a sky or NTL box, maybe basic homework-y stuff how many people would shell out the extra for a full PC?

Maybe it'l come the other way around, with next-gen consoles having USB and internet hookups how long before someone brings out a web browser or basic word processor for them. (MS Office Live access even?) Add printing support and what more do most people need.

[docevi1]

Google and Sun have already launched an online office suite where you data is stored by Google online...

[m12_nathan]

ultimasimon said:

When I first got my ADSL account (ten years ago)

When was ADSL introduced into the UK?

Those students are mental for paying £60 a month for that restricted access.

[aldi]

docevi1 said:

Google and Sun have already launched an online office suite where you data is stored by Google online...

Cool, any trials available yet? linky linky?

[CommanderJameson]

ultimasimon said:

Don't think so, who can honestly say they can use 10meg d/l (which is what we currently get from Telewest for £35pm)? On what exactly, porn, films, mp3 etc, all of which are illegal - but still the ISP's allow it. Yes the music Fed is cracking skulls, but slowly as they cannot possibly bring to court every rule breaker.

Agree with pretty much everything else you said, but must take issue here.

Firstly, hardcore pornography is quite legal in the UK, and has been for some time.

Some films are released on the internet; I agree that downloading DVD rips isn't on the up-and-up, but there are a number of independent film makers who release their stuff on the internet.

MP3s are not intrinsically illegal to download, either; a substantial proportion of my music collection is completely legal downloaded music, either bought through the iTunes store or from somewhere like www.legaltorrents.com.

I agree with your unspoken subtext which is that most people with 10Mbps bandwidth will not use it for such noble purposes as I have outlined.

The ISPs allow it because they have "common carrier" status. If they get involved with policing illegal music downloads, say, then by extension they are suddenly responsible for everything that everyone does on their networks; this ranges from sending snotty emails to the ex to organising terrorist activities.

We don't hold the telecoms companies responsible for, say, obscene or nuisance phone calls, and this is for the same reason.