Mobile Email - Blackberry vs Symbian vs MS Mobile

[beanbag]

Just thought I'd add my feedback on this since I have an E51.

You can use Blackberry (which I used to use), Exchange and standard IMAP or POP3 mail.

Both Blackberry and Exchange are both push and they work perfectly. The only downside I would say is when it comes to meeting appointments.

Although it's possible to accept or reject them, it's impossible to invite persons to a meeting. The same I've noticed with the iPhone which my other half has. I don't know what this is like on an Windows Mobile device.

If you use the phone for business, this can be a huge problem at times and a pain in the arse.

For standard POP3 or IMAP, I use Nokia Mail which is a superb client, albeit a little slow on my device. It's faster on the new E series devices I've heard though. It also supports Hotmail which can be handy too.

Ultimately, I've been waiting for the new iPhone to be released however I'm also waiting for the new Nokia E55. I'll make my mind up once I've seen them both.

Edited by beanbag on Friday 22 May 09:33

[buggalugs]

Ordinary_Chap said:

buggalugs said:

I hear what you're saying about the Windows devices containing network access credentials, however I'm not aware of a way of extracting those at present. Also, the devices security options can be managed centraly - pin codes, remote wipe etc. Comms is via SSL. Maybe blackberry does have an advantage but to br honest I'm not convinced that the Windows devices have as big a disadvantage as you say.

Edited by buggalugs on Friday 22 May 00:10

That’s fine, no need to take my word for it. As for recovering credentials that’s often not required since most of them cache the credentials for various applications. A simple way at looking at Smartphones is to consider them as computers on your network.

Just take one look at any company, government, Military body that requires security and take a look at what they run. In fact the UK's government bodies and police forces generally run BES environments however there are some Windows mobiles knocking around but under the management of a 3rd party security application but that’s entirely different to running the standard stuff. The American bodies also run Blackberries.

I am a Windows fan and a MCSE and all of the rest of it but there is clearly no comparison between Blackberry and Windows Mobile when it comes to mobiles.

If you have time, read up on it and you'll see how much danager unsecured devices can be.

There are many reasons why Blackberries are so prolific in the corporate environment but two of the biggest are security and being able to manage the devices.

Edited by Ordinary_Chap on Friday 22 May 09:27

That's quite a wooly statement though, what I'm getting at is what exactly are the differences - because the features mentioned so far seem to apply to both devices. At least from Exchange 2007 they do anyway - not sure about before that (2003).

[Ordinary_Chap]

buggalugs said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

buggalugs said:

I hear what you're saying about the Windows devices containing network access credentials, however I'm not aware of a way of extracting those at present. Also, the devices security options can be managed centraly - pin codes, remote wipe etc. Comms is via SSL. Maybe blackberry does have an advantage but to br honest I'm not convinced that the Windows devices have as big a disadvantage as you say.

Edited by buggalugs on Friday 22 May 00:10

That’s fine, no need to take my word for it. As for recovering credentials that’s often not required since most of them cache the credentials for various applications. A simple way at looking at Smartphones is to consider them as computers on your network.

Just take one look at any company, government, Military body that requires security and take a look at what they run. In fact the UK's government bodies and police forces generally run BES environments however there are some Windows mobiles knocking around but under the management of a 3rd party security application but that’s entirely different to running the standard stuff. The American bodies also run Blackberries.

I am a Windows fan and a MCSE and all of the rest of it but there is clearly no comparison between Blackberry and Windows Mobile when it comes to mobiles.

If you have time, read up on it and you'll see how much danager unsecured devices can be.

There are many reasons why Blackberries are so prolific in the corporate environment but two of the biggest are security and being able to manage the devices.

Edited by Ordinary_Chap on Friday 22 May 09:27

That's quite a wooly statement though, what I'm getting at is what exactly are the differences - because the features mentioned so far seem to apply to both devices. At least from Exchange 2007 they do anyway - not sure about before that (2003).

Sure, no problem.

Take a look at some of these articles for a start.
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/fe...
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/fe...

The key differences are, Blackberry's encrypt all data on the device and storage card by default. The device then secures the connections end to end for ALL data not just mail. Windows Mobile doesn't do this without 3rd party applications.

The BES applies security policies which can control every aspect of the device in the same way as group policy does on Windows. This give administrators superb control over the devices and allows a granular approach to security.

Blackberry's are pretty much immune to virus unlike the Windows mobile platform. The Windows mobile platform is recommended to have things like anti-virus on it which again is another cost and overhead on the device. Granted Virus/Trojan's aren't a massive problem right now, it's hardly a leap of faith to expect this to worsen.

With everything taken into account RIM provide a complete and secure option for companies hence their dominance in the corporate market place.

Edited by Ordinary_Chap on Friday 22 May 20:12

[HRG]

Good debate chaps, keep it up I've always been anti-Blackebrry for SME use due to the much higher ownership costs but I can see a reason why they might be applicable in an environment where security matters now.

[RedLeicester]

jonnie5 said:

Thanks

.... needs to include a good music player (ideally with stereo bluetooth support)....

That's the biPhone out then...

Personally, I use HTC Winmob devices - quite happy with exchange in my business. My wife uses a Nokia E91 or whatever it's called - the flip-open Communicator brick. She adores it, I despise it despite loving my old N95. Exchange on it is horrendously slow and convoluted and seems (out of the box at least) to be lacking much other than basic commands for maintenance and download.

I couldn't recommend the biFone, and agree with much of what has already been said, even though the MMS and Cut and Paste issues will finally be resolved with V3 software. As for Crackberries, well there are SO many corporate users that they have to be doing something right. If you're hunting for a one-size-fits-all device, then I think it's down to a Crackberry or WinMob box. They're going to do much the same sort of things (at least in an SME type operation), so the remainder is down to personal preference.

Edited by RedLeicester on Friday 22 May 20:35

[mouseymousey]

Ordinary_Chap said:

Sure, no problem.

Take a look at some of these articles for a start.
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/fe...
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/fe...

Edited by Ordinary_Chap on Friday 22 May 20:12

Blackberry articles say Blackberries are better than Windows Mobile shocker!

[buggalugs]

Ordinary_Chap said:

buggalugs said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

buggalugs said:

I hear what you're saying about the Windows devices containing network access credentials, however I'm not aware of a way of extracting those at present. Also, the devices security options can be managed centraly - pin codes, remote wipe etc. Comms is via SSL. Maybe blackberry does have an advantage but to br honest I'm not convinced that the Windows devices have as big a disadvantage as you say.

Edited by buggalugs on Friday 22 May 00:10

That’s fine, no need to take my word for it. As for recovering credentials that’s often not required since most of them cache the credentials for various applications. A simple way at looking at Smartphones is to consider them as computers on your network.

Just take one look at any company, government, Military body that requires security and take a look at what they run. In fact the UK's government bodies and police forces generally run BES environments however there are some Windows mobiles knocking around but under the management of a 3rd party security application but that’s entirely different to running the standard stuff. The American bodies also run Blackberries.

I am a Windows fan and a MCSE and all of the rest of it but there is clearly no comparison between Blackberry and Windows Mobile when it comes to mobiles.

If you have time, read up on it and you'll see how much danager unsecured devices can be.

There are many reasons why Blackberries are so prolific in the corporate environment but two of the biggest are security and being able to manage the devices.

Edited by Ordinary_Chap on Friday 22 May 09:27

That's quite a wooly statement though, what I'm getting at is what exactly are the differences - because the features mentioned so far seem to apply to both devices. At least from Exchange 2007 they do anyway - not sure about before that (2003).

Sure, no problem.

Take a look at some of these articles for a start.
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/fe...
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/fe...

The key differences are, Blackberry's encrypt all data on the device and storage card by default. The device then secures the connections end to end for ALL data not just mail. Windows Mobile doesn't do this without 3rd party applications.

The BES applies security policies which can control every aspect of the device in the same way as group policy does on Windows. This give administrators superb control over the devices and allows a granular approach to security.

Blackberry's are pretty much immune to virus unlike the Windows mobile platform. The Windows mobile platform is recommended to have things like anti-virus on it which again is another cost and overhead on the device. Granted Virus/Trojan's aren't a massive problem right now, it's hardly a leap of faith to expect this to worsen.

Edited by Ordinary_Chap on Friday 22 May 20:12

Exchange Activesync *can* enforce device policies though - there's a summary of what settings can be configured here -

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb12348...

So thats not a key difference at all. I don't understand how you can say that the windows devices only encrypt anything except mail comms as well, since there's only one method of connecting back to the server and it's SSL.

Fair play about the viruses though!

said:

RIM jumped into bed with the mobile data providers and pushed it hard as an extra revenue stream for companies hence their dominance in the corporate market place.

EFA

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=blackbe...

Although to be fair, googling exchange activesync exploit throws up a few as well.

Also to be fair it looks like these device management features are new to Exchange 2007, and nobody seems to have marketed the OMA stuff very hard. I guess one you've bought an Exchange CAL there's nothing left to sell you except for the time and expertise to set OMA up - as opposed to Blackberry where it's a nicely packaged add-on/revenue stream that you can push to people.


Anyway it's a friday night and I'm having a nerdy discussion on the internet, so I loose by default

[Ordinary_Chap]

buggalugs said:

Exchange Activesync *can* enforce device policies though - there's a summary of what settings can be configured here -

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb12348...

So thats not a key difference at all. I don't understand how you can say that the windows devices only encrypt anything except mail comms as well, since there's only one method of connecting back to the server and it's SSL.

There is a massive difference.

You're missing the point, connecting to mail over SSL is encrypted, all other transmitted data isn't.

Also the policies available for Win Mobile are minimal to say the least, comparing the 400+ Blackberry policy options vs about 30 for the MS solution and half of them aren't enforceable on devices anyway and even if they can be enforced on the device, they can be removed without too much hassle.

This is the reason why very few use the functionality. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of Windows mobile companies out there but they use software like SOTI to control their devices and the cost then becomes very similar to Blackberry but without the quality and security of BES.

buggalugs said:

Fair play about the viruses though!

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=blackbe...

That google search is completely pointless, got any exploits for the past few years rather than that old stuff? Can you find me a successful exploit in the last two years that is dangerous to the device and in the scheme of things the only successful exploits in the past have been DDOS'ing the BES using flaws in 3rd party file formats and applications and now they don't happen.

Honesty, Blackberry would be dead in the water if Windows mobile could come close to what it offers which would be free for most organizations.

[Ordinary_Chap]

mouseymousey said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

Sure, no problem.

Take a look at some of these articles for a start.
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/fe...
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/fe...

Edited by Ordinary_Chap on Friday 22 May 20:12

Blackberry articles say Blackberries are better than Windows Mobile shocker!

Heh, It doesn't mention Windows Mobile. You should look at it sometime.

[mouseymousey]

Ordinary_Chap said:

mouseymousey said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

Sure, no problem.

Take a look at some of these articles for a start.
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/fe...
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/fe...

Edited by Ordinary_Chap on Friday 22 May 20:12

Blackberry articles say Blackberries are better than Windows Mobile shocker!

Heh, It doesn't mention Windows Mobile. You should look at it sometime.

Bugger!

[buggalugs]

Ordinary_Chap said:

buggalugs said:

Exchange Activesync *can* enforce device policies though - there's a summary of what settings can be configured here -

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb12348...

So thats not a key difference at all. I don't understand how you can say that the windows devices only encrypt anything except mail comms as well, since there's only one method of connecting back to the server and it's SSL.

There is a massive difference.

You're missing the point, connecting to mail over SSL is encrypted, all other transmitted data isn't.

Also the policies available for Win Mobile are minimal to say the least, comparing the 400+ Blackberry policy options vs about 30 for the MS solution and half of them aren't enforceable on devices anyway and even if they can be enforced on the device, they can be removed without too much hassle.

This is the reason why very few use the functionality. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of Windows mobile companies out there but they use software like SOTI to control their devices and the cost then becomes very similar to Blackberry but without the quality and security of BES.

buggalugs said:

Fair play about the viruses though!

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=blackbe...

That google search is completely pointless, got any exploits for the past few years rather than that old stuff? Can you find me a successful exploit in the last two years that is dangerous to the device and in the scheme of things the only successful exploits in the past have been DDOS'ing the BES using flaws in 3rd party file formats and applications and now they don't happen.

Honesty, Blackberry would be dead in the water if Windows mobile could come close to what it offers which would be free for most organizations.

Hmm, I don't agree with everything you've said but I think you're probably right in general. I feel like I've learned something now

[Ordinary_Chap]

I have started another thread about mobile security but thought I'd add the link to this thread so people can see it in their mystuff section.

http://web.mac.com/mardelibre/Lopez_Research/Resea...