Do you rate the 7-g tronic auto box?
Discussion
J4CKO said:
I only use manual to pre select a gear for overtaking, sat behind a dawdler and want to maximise that overtaking opportunity and avoid the short delay whilst it kicks down, drop it into third and then hoof it past.
Me too - the manual mode seems to act as a "range limiter" like the old 1 and 2 on an old style 3-sp autos. I don't know if the later ones or AMG ones are any more "manual" though. Worth knowing that Comfort mode takes off in second gear (and also uses a higher ratio 2nd gear for winter use).
I went from a BMW with ZF 6sp to a W204 C350 CDI with 7sp and currently have a BMW again with the ZF 8sp.
While at first the Merc felt like a step backwards from the BMW 6sp, I still have fond memories of it. It felt a bit like a 5sp with an extra 1st and an extra 5th gear for all the use 1st and 7th really were; but it was always possible to tell which gear you were in and (when using the paddles) whether you wanted to drop one or two gears fairly intuitively. Now with the ZF 8sp I struggle to work out whether I need to drop one, two, three, four or possibly five gears. 7 ratios, for me, seems to be the most I can sensibly distinguish without thinking about it.
The Merc also feels more like a traditional auto box in comparison to the ZF 8sp; the 8sp seems to lock up the torque converter at incredibly low rpm in an attempt to be more DSG-like. That's fine but I quite like the ability of a torque converter to increase the revs a bit almost instantly without changing gear.
I wouldn't have any problem swapping back to a Merc with the 7-sp now, even after living with the 8sp ZF for a while. Although that's me; if you are more of a PDK/DSG fan then perhaps you'd not feel the same.
While at first the Merc felt like a step backwards from the BMW 6sp, I still have fond memories of it. It felt a bit like a 5sp with an extra 1st and an extra 5th gear for all the use 1st and 7th really were; but it was always possible to tell which gear you were in and (when using the paddles) whether you wanted to drop one or two gears fairly intuitively. Now with the ZF 8sp I struggle to work out whether I need to drop one, two, three, four or possibly five gears. 7 ratios, for me, seems to be the most I can sensibly distinguish without thinking about it.
The Merc also feels more like a traditional auto box in comparison to the ZF 8sp; the 8sp seems to lock up the torque converter at incredibly low rpm in an attempt to be more DSG-like. That's fine but I quite like the ability of a torque converter to increase the revs a bit almost instantly without changing gear.
I wouldn't have any problem swapping back to a Merc with the 7-sp now, even after living with the 8sp ZF for a while. Although that's me; if you are more of a PDK/DSG fan then perhaps you'd not feel the same.
italian job said:
Thanks for all the informative replys....autoboxes are never cheap are they? Fluid change always sounds like a good idea,i did it on the 530D even though that's supposed to be sealed for life.
Overall, I'm told, automatic cars tend to be cheaper to run than manual box cars over the life of the car.There is less chance of them being overreved, the engine doesn't labour and they are driven by those who are not boy racers.
Autoboxes can give problems but these are generally through poor use. Towing excessive weight can be a killer, especially if additional cooling of the box is not fitted.
I changed the oil in the gearbox of my 7-g when a plate went and was told that they recommended it at 70k anyway. They also recommended changing the oil in the compressor at the same time, although I had the N/A V6 so not applicable.
donkmeister said:
J4CKO said:
I only use manual to pre select a gear for overtaking, sat behind a dawdler and want to maximise that overtaking opportunity and avoid the short delay whilst it kicks down, drop it into third and then hoof it past.
Me too - the manual mode seems to act as a "range limiter" like the old 1 and 2 on an old style 3-sp autos. I don't know if the later ones or AMG ones are any more "manual" though. Worth knowing that Comfort mode takes off in second gear (and also uses a higher ratio 2nd gear for winter use).
Jobbo said:
I went from a BMW with ZF 6sp to a W204 C350 CDI with 7sp and currently have a BMW again with the ZF 8sp.
While at first the Merc felt like a step backwards from the BMW 6sp, I still have fond memories of it. It felt a bit like a 5sp with an extra 1st and an extra 5th gear for all the use 1st and 7th really were; but it was always possible to tell which gear you were in and (when using the paddles) whether you wanted to drop one or two gears fairly intuitively. Now with the ZF 8sp I struggle to work out whether I need to drop one, two, three, four or possibly five gears. 7 ratios, for me, seems to be the most I can sensibly distinguish without thinking about it.
The Merc also feels more like a traditional auto box in comparison to the ZF 8sp; the 8sp seems to lock up the torque converter at incredibly low rpm in an attempt to be more DSG-like. That's fine but I quite like the ability of a torque converter to increase the revs a bit almost instantly without changing gear.
I wouldn't have any problem swapping back to a Merc with the 7-sp now, even after living with the 8sp ZF for a while. Although that's me; if you are more of a PDK/DSG fan then perhaps you'd not feel the same.
Some really intresting observations thank you,if I can get another year out of my V70 I might be able to stretch to a 350cdi as apposed to a 320 or 280cdi....decisions,decisions.While at first the Merc felt like a step backwards from the BMW 6sp, I still have fond memories of it. It felt a bit like a 5sp with an extra 1st and an extra 5th gear for all the use 1st and 7th really were; but it was always possible to tell which gear you were in and (when using the paddles) whether you wanted to drop one or two gears fairly intuitively. Now with the ZF 8sp I struggle to work out whether I need to drop one, two, three, four or possibly five gears. 7 ratios, for me, seems to be the most I can sensibly distinguish without thinking about it.
The Merc also feels more like a traditional auto box in comparison to the ZF 8sp; the 8sp seems to lock up the torque converter at incredibly low rpm in an attempt to be more DSG-like. That's fine but I quite like the ability of a torque converter to increase the revs a bit almost instantly without changing gear.
I wouldn't have any problem swapping back to a Merc with the 7-sp now, even after living with the 8sp ZF for a while. Although that's me; if you are more of a PDK/DSG fan then perhaps you'd not feel the same.
Its great to ask a question and get so many replys.Cheers everyone.
jamie w said:
My E320cdi always starts in first in C or S mode. I think I've read somewhere that it's only 6 & 8 cylinder petrols that set off in 2nd in comfort mode.
Ah, I've got a v8 petrol so that explains that - I would think diesels would need this feature more than a petrol engine though.Also I spotted a typo in my post - in C/ W the REVERSE gear is a longer ratio (yes, the 7g box has TWO reverse gears!)
donkmeister said:
Ah, I've got a v8 petrol so that explains that - I would think diesels would need this feature more than a petrol engine though.
Also I spotted a typo in my post - in C/ W the REVERSE gear is a longer ratio (yes, the 7g box has TWO reverse gears!)
Even the old 5 speed has 2 reverse gears, and starts in the higher gear (2nd going forwards) in C mode. I don't think either box shifts gear in reverse though, although I've seen discussions on US forums where owners swear blind they've got up to like 40MPH in reverse and felt it shift!Also I spotted a typo in my post - in C/ W the REVERSE gear is a longer ratio (yes, the 7g box has TWO reverse gears!)
Don't know if I was missing something, but I had a 7G+ equipped E Class courtesy car the other day which counted through the gears on the dash and I couldn't get that to start in anything other than 1st, even selecting gears manually. I only spent a few moments trying though.
Sheepshanks said:
For slippy conditions - if I get one rear wheel of my 5 speed C270CDi on wet grass it'll spin it up from rest in S even if I'm ultra-careful. In C it doesn't do that.
Some form of "brake the spinning wheel" traction control would seem to be cheaper than an entire extra gear?donkmeister said:
jamie w said:
My E320cdi always starts in first in C or S mode. I think I've read somewhere that it's only 6 & 8 cylinder petrols that set off in 2nd in comfort mode.
Ah, I've got a v8 petrol so that explains that - I would think diesels would need this feature more than a petrol engine though.)
Slightly surprised little mention here of problems experienced with the 7g. The internet is not short of complaints about this box not being smooth changing.
Mine's pretty good but I do get the odd rogue jerky change and I've had the adaptation process run on it a couple of times by a good indie. It's also had 3 fluid changes (now on 115k).
Fair point made re rougher changes. I have just swapped a c55 (5 speed) for an e350cdi (7 speed). Both of them when cold had jerky changes particularly across the first 3 ratios, the c55 being the worse of the two in this respect.
Conversely when warm, you hardly know what the boxes are doing - presumably this is just a Merc thing?? It was not a feature of my dad's '94 5-series as I recall or for that matter his old Citroen Xantia
Conversely when warm, you hardly know what the boxes are doing - presumably this is just a Merc thing?? It was not a feature of my dad's '94 5-series as I recall or for that matter his old Citroen Xantia
AMGSee55 said:
Fair point made re rougher changes. I have just swapped a c55 (5 speed) for an e350cdi (7 speed). Both of them when cold had jerky changes particularly across the first 3 ratios, the c55 being the worse of the two in this respect.
Conversely when warm, you hardly know what the boxes are doing - presumably this is just a Merc thing?? It was not a feature of my dad's '94 5-series as I recall or for that matter his old Citroen Xantia
I have a 2012 E350 cdi, as said when cold it's not too smooth, it's got a service early March and I'm told a software update may sort this?Conversely when warm, you hardly know what the boxes are doing - presumably this is just a Merc thing?? It was not a feature of my dad's '94 5-series as I recall or for that matter his old Citroen Xantia
Other than that love the box.
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