AMG 5.5 V8 versus new 4.0 V8
Discussion
Hi--
I'm looking at an AMG S63 with the current 5.5 litre twin turbo V8 which is good for 580bhp.
I see the facelift car coming next year has the 4 litre twin turbo V8 and produces around 600bhp.
My question is - which engine is better? I always prefer a higher displacement size, so should I favour the 5.5 litre or is the newer car with the smaller engine a much better choice?
I'd have the old 6.2 litre NA V8 if available.
If anyone has insights into the 5.5 litre engine I'd be grateful! Noise, reliability etc,
Thanks,
I'm looking at an AMG S63 with the current 5.5 litre twin turbo V8 which is good for 580bhp.
I see the facelift car coming next year has the 4 litre twin turbo V8 and produces around 600bhp.
My question is - which engine is better? I always prefer a higher displacement size, so should I favour the 5.5 litre or is the newer car with the smaller engine a much better choice?
I'd have the old 6.2 litre NA V8 if available.
If anyone has insights into the 5.5 litre engine I'd be grateful! Noise, reliability etc,
Thanks,
The new 4 litre engines everyone is using from Porsche to Bentley to BMW to Mercedes, etc. are way more efficient than the older big V8 motors. They are kicking out quite phenomenal bhp and torque from their small engines. I know someone with a Mercedes producing a reliable 750 bhp and torque limited to 690 lbs. The new engines are amazing.
The new M177 (4.0) engine is an impressive bit of kit, which was good enough for the flagship AMG GTS & GTR so can't be that bad. Whilst not having it in an S Class I do have it in the E and, having come from the M157 (5.5), it just seems sharper and more lively. This is possibly something to do with the new 9 speed box (don't know if the S will come with this but I would assume so) which is a lot quicker than the 7 speed I had in my old E Class. 4Matic+ also helps considerably though we do get the crabbing issue on the right hand drive models unfortunately.
The engine just seems a lot more responsive than the M157 did, with a lot of torque available from very low down the range all the way through to maximum, and you can get into licence losing territory very quickly without realising the fact unless you're paying attention.
I don't know of any reliability issues on the M177 engine yet, and the M157 was pretty impressive apart from the cam chain rattle at start up, which is a well known and documented fix. (A couple of non return valves required, Google "m157 rattle on start" and it's the first hit). Mine was done out of warranty though with a "goodwill" contribution from Mercedes. Apart from this, they seem pretty bullet proof.
The 5.5 is very tunable and will make up to 700bhp with just a map, a lot more once you start to play with exhausts and turbos, whereas the 4.0 is a little limited at the moment, with mainly just a couple of companies experimenting with mapping. Weistec are getting pretty good figures so far though, as are Renntech, both running the W213 E Classes in 10 second quarter mile times.
You mention you'd like the 6.2 (M156) engine. I love this motor in a C Class though, to me at least, it goes against what the S Class is about for comfort and refinement. It needs a torquey motor with lots of low down grunt, not one that you have to be taking to 4,000+ revs to get the benefit from.
The engine just seems a lot more responsive than the M157 did, with a lot of torque available from very low down the range all the way through to maximum, and you can get into licence losing territory very quickly without realising the fact unless you're paying attention.
I don't know of any reliability issues on the M177 engine yet, and the M157 was pretty impressive apart from the cam chain rattle at start up, which is a well known and documented fix. (A couple of non return valves required, Google "m157 rattle on start" and it's the first hit). Mine was done out of warranty though with a "goodwill" contribution from Mercedes. Apart from this, they seem pretty bullet proof.
The 5.5 is very tunable and will make up to 700bhp with just a map, a lot more once you start to play with exhausts and turbos, whereas the 4.0 is a little limited at the moment, with mainly just a couple of companies experimenting with mapping. Weistec are getting pretty good figures so far though, as are Renntech, both running the W213 E Classes in 10 second quarter mile times.
You mention you'd like the 6.2 (M156) engine. I love this motor in a C Class though, to me at least, it goes against what the S Class is about for comfort and refinement. It needs a torquey motor with lots of low down grunt, not one that you have to be taking to 4,000+ revs to get the benefit from.
daveenty said:
The new M177 (4.0) engine is an impressive bit of kit, which was good enough for the flagship AMG GTS & GTR so can't be that bad. Whilst not having it in an S Class I do have it in the E and, having come from the M157 (5.5), it just seems sharper and more lively. This is possibly something to do with the new 9 speed box (don't know if the S will come with this but I would assume so) which is a lot quicker than the 7 speed I had in my old E Class. 4Matic+ also helps considerably though we do get the crabbing issue on the right hand drive models unfortunately.
The engine just seems a lot more responsive than the M157 did, with a lot of torque available from very low down the range all the way through to maximum, and you can get into licence losing territory very quickly without realising the fact unless you're paying attention.
I don't know of any reliability issues on the M177 engine yet, and the M157 was pretty impressive apart from the cam chain rattle at start up, which is a well known and documented fix. (A couple of non return valves required, Google "m157 rattle on start" and it's the first hit). Mine was done out of warranty though with a "goodwill" contribution from Mercedes. Apart from this, they seem pretty bullet proof.
The 5.5 is very tunable and will make up to 700bhp with just a map, a lot more once you start to play with exhausts and turbos, whereas the 4.0 is a little limited at the moment, with mainly just a couple of companies experimenting with mapping. Weistec are getting pretty good figures so far though, as are Renntech, both running the W213 E Classes in 10 second quarter mile times.
You mention you'd like the 6.2 (M156) engine. I love this motor in a C Class though, to me at least, it goes against what the S Class is about for comfort and refinement. It needs a torquey motor with lots of low down grunt, not one that you have to be taking to 4,000+ revs to get the benefit from.
If £ was no object surely the best power unit for the S class is the S65 v12 bi turbo - and some folk even modify those .... bonkers. The engine just seems a lot more responsive than the M157 did, with a lot of torque available from very low down the range all the way through to maximum, and you can get into licence losing territory very quickly without realising the fact unless you're paying attention.
I don't know of any reliability issues on the M177 engine yet, and the M157 was pretty impressive apart from the cam chain rattle at start up, which is a well known and documented fix. (A couple of non return valves required, Google "m157 rattle on start" and it's the first hit). Mine was done out of warranty though with a "goodwill" contribution from Mercedes. Apart from this, they seem pretty bullet proof.
The 5.5 is very tunable and will make up to 700bhp with just a map, a lot more once you start to play with exhausts and turbos, whereas the 4.0 is a little limited at the moment, with mainly just a couple of companies experimenting with mapping. Weistec are getting pretty good figures so far though, as are Renntech, both running the W213 E Classes in 10 second quarter mile times.
You mention you'd like the 6.2 (M156) engine. I love this motor in a C Class though, to me at least, it goes against what the S Class is about for comfort and refinement. It needs a torquey motor with lots of low down grunt, not one that you have to be taking to 4,000+ revs to get the benefit from.
petjam said:
I am not as eloquent as the posters above but I have the 5.5 in my 2014 E63s.
It goes like stink and sounds pretty good at the same time!
Like the above poster I had the 5.5 in an E63 a few years back but now have the 4.00 ttE63 so has the 9 speed gearbox.It goes like stink and sounds pretty good at the same time!
Both lovely cars, the 5.5 brutal. the 4tt is violent. I do like current E63 with the 4x4 and 9 speed ( but then came also from a RS6)
Like the 4x4 for the E63 now very much. Does have some low speed crabbing when on full lock but minor and otherwise fantastic car.[urlE[/url]
Does the newer S63 have the 4matic+ ?
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 10th January 15:38
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 10th January 15:39
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 10th January 15:40
superlightr said:
Like the above poster I had the 5.5 in an E63 a few years back but now have the 4.00 ttE63 so has the 9 speed gearbox.
Both lovely cars, the 5.5 brutal. the 4tt is violent. I do like current E63 with the 4x4 and 9 speed ( but then came also from a RS6)
Like the 4x4 for the E63 now very much. Does have some low speed crabbing when on full lock but minor and otherwise fantastic car.[urlE[/url]
Does the newer S63 have the 4matic+ ?
That's lovely. What colour is it? Both lovely cars, the 5.5 brutal. the 4tt is violent. I do like current E63 with the 4x4 and 9 speed ( but then came also from a RS6)
Like the 4x4 for the E63 now very much. Does have some low speed crabbing when on full lock but minor and otherwise fantastic car.[urlE[/url]
Does the newer S63 have the 4matic+ ?
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 10th January 15:38
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 10th January 15:39
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 10th January 15:40
thank you - Selinite Grey metallic. 
Another previous car the RS6 also had 4litre twin turbo and again super responsive.
does appear the way forward with the engine sizes and turbos.
Also had a 5.9 V12 Db9 which was ok but the engine was no where near as responsive as either 4lt turbos although wasn't designed for that and different car but again. Certainly for me I enjoy the smaller engines with turbos but your not going feel short changed by a 5.5 in any way !
gratuitous pic of db9 and RS6
Another previous car the RS6 also had 4litre twin turbo and again super responsive.
does appear the way forward with the engine sizes and turbos.
Also had a 5.9 V12 Db9 which was ok but the engine was no where near as responsive as either 4lt turbos although wasn't designed for that and different car but again. Certainly for me I enjoy the smaller engines with turbos but your not going feel short changed by a 5.5 in any way !
gratuitous pic of db9 and RS6
Edited by superlightr on Friday 11th January 15:06
Edited by superlightr on Friday 11th January 15:14
Edited by superlightr on Friday 11th January 15:15
Edited by superlightr on Friday 11th January 15:19
Edited by superlightr on Friday 11th January 15:37
Technically why is the 4.0TT better than the 5.5Bi Turbo?
1. Is it lower tolerances?
2. If the 5.5 was a hot V (turbos between the two banks now outside would it be just as good on a per ltr output?
3. Is the 4.0 simply tuned much more than the 5.5? Could you tube the 5.5 to more than the 4.0?
4. Which sounds better? Is one more farty?
1. Is it lower tolerances?
2. If the 5.5 was a hot V (turbos between the two banks now outside would it be just as good on a per ltr output?
3. Is the 4.0 simply tuned much more than the 5.5? Could you tube the 5.5 to more than the 4.0?
4. Which sounds better? Is one more farty?
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