C63s (205) Potential Buyer

[simonwhite2000]

With ICE cars end looming I really want to scratch the V8 itch before it is too late. Having toyed with the idea of everything from an M5 to a Mustang I think I am pretty set on a C205 coupe or S205 saloon.

That then leads me to pre or post facelift. I am leaning heavily towards pre facelift mainly because they sound so much better.

Does anyone have any advice or feedback on these cars? Any serious issues with them I could run into?

I am also re-searching if the bigger facelift media screen can be retrofitted. I think I have also seen some people who have retrofitted the digital cockpit however the analogue dials don't bother me.

Any feedback or advice welcome!

[off_again]

simonwhite2000 said:

With ICE cars end looming I really want to scratch the V8 itch before it is too late. Having toyed with the idea of everything from an M5 to a Mustang I think I am pretty set on a C205 coupe or S205 saloon.

C63S W205 owner here - did the same myself. I expect that my next big purchase will probably be an extended range plug-in hybrid or electric car. So yeah, why not go out in style!

simonwhite2000 said:

That then leads me to pre or post facelift. I am leaning heavily towards pre facelift mainly because they sound so much better.

I have the pre-facelift model and yes, there are some differences in the way that the exhaust will work. A lot is posted on the internet about the differences, but in reality, even the post-facelist models sound good. And there are some adjustments that can be made to make the newer models pop and bang more. However, it is absolutely mode dependent so when you go for a test drive, make sure you are in Sport or Sport+ mode to find out the differences are.

I am sure you are aware, but the C63 didnt come with the performance exhaust as standard, but some were spec'ed with it. C63S models came with it as standard and its well worth getting one with it!

simonwhite2000 said:

Does anyone have any advice or feedback on these cars? Any serious issues with them I could run into?

They are great, what is more to say? The C is definately the more raw version of the 63 though. The E is mental and higher power, but also a little softer and more controlled. Its all relative of course, because the E is still mental, but the 205 model really lifted things up from the 204 model. They really do handle well and reward when driven. The gap between the M3/4 and C63 is a lot smaller in this generation.

Serious problems? Not really. The front end is vulnerable though - those oil coolers, intercoolers and radiator can get cracked easily, so check out the current damage and be aware of this. The front is low too, so be careful on curbs etc. But the engines are solid and very reliable. Take to basic tuning well, but if you want to go down this route, make sure its with a proven company who knows what they are doing - its easy to trigger limp home mode on them with mis-fires etc. This often takes a dealer to fix. Just be careful here.

Oh, and other than normal 205 model issues, they are solid. Fit and finish should be good, but interior panels might squeak, so be aware of it. Quality of the materials should be good though. There might be some electronic issues, but its pretty rare. I had a sunroof issue though, which is a common on the 205 models - can pop the brackets and it needs to be removed to fix it - dealer fix and can cost a bunch to fix! Check the sun roof works OK.

Gearbox needs careful maintenance so make sure this is done, but its solid and doesnt suffer major issues. Its the same one that is used in multiple higher power models, so its understressed.

simonwhite2000 said:

I am also re-searching if the bigger facelift media screen can be retrofitted. I think I have also seen some people who have retrofitted the digital cockpit however the analogue dials don't bother me.

Mmmm, good question and probably worth a full description. Dont go with a replacement with the full Merc system - its just not worth it. You can get an addon box though. They were expensive but much more reasonable these days. Brings Carplay and Android Auto to the screen (not touchscreen) and works well, nicely integrated. Will send a link if you are interested. Dont go with the Android replacement screen though - too many limitations from when I looked though. Works well, but you will loose features that are native. I can dig into this more though, let me know.

[OGR]

HI all small thread hijack thread if OK.

Deciding whether to get a C63 (estate) , done a little reading on here but wondered if anyone could give me a run down ..

Models, facelift, what to watch out for and so on.

Probably going for C63 not S version but not fixed.

Currently have C7RS6 but fancy a change and smaller car.

Cheers

[Carlton Banks]

I can provide some insight.

I went for a c63 estate pre facelift non S however mine has the following extras from factory that were spec'd by the previous owner which include:

AMG performance seats
Upgraded wheels
AMG switchable exhaust
Limited Slip Diff
Night Pack
Designo White paint


Other than the extra power and dynamic engine mounts, it made sense given the price differential and is perfect for what I need.

I did briefly look at a facelift but I couldn't justify the extra £15k as I preferred to buy from a maindealer.

I considered several cars at independent dealers but was concerned that I wouldnt benefit from the manufacturers extended warranty - which is two years if bought from franchised dealers these days. Note, extending the warranty is much more than it used to be £2k+ so bear this in mind.

I would strongly suggest you go and physically view the car - I made the mistake of getting mine delivered from an MB dealer - the car was great other than a few issues that have now been rectified.

I won't be tuning mine until the warranty expires however lots of people have had some great results.

Thanks
CB

[simonwhite2000]

off_again said:

simonwhite2000 said:

With ICE cars end looming I really want to scratch the V8 itch before it is too late. Having toyed with the idea of everything from an M5 to a Mustang I think I am pretty set on a C205 coupe or S205 saloon.

C63S W205 owner here - did the same myself. I expect that my next big purchase will probably be an extended range plug-in hybrid or electric car. So yeah, why not go out in style!

simonwhite2000 said:

That then leads me to pre or post facelift. I am leaning heavily towards pre facelift mainly because they sound so much better.

I have the pre-facelift model and yes, there are some differences in the way that the exhaust will work. A lot is posted on the internet about the differences, but in reality, even the post-facelist models sound good. And there are some adjustments that can be made to make the newer models pop and bang more. However, it is absolutely mode dependent so when you go for a test drive, make sure you are in Sport or Sport+ mode to find out the differences are.

I am sure you are aware, but the C63 didnt come with the performance exhaust as standard, but some were spec'ed with it. C63S models came with it as standard and its well worth getting one with it!

simonwhite2000 said:

Does anyone have any advice or feedback on these cars? Any serious issues with them I could run into?

They are great, what is more to say? The C is definately the more raw version of the 63 though. The E is mental and higher power, but also a little softer and more controlled. Its all relative of course, because the E is still mental, but the 205 model really lifted things up from the 204 model. They really do handle well and reward when driven. The gap between the M3/4 and C63 is a lot smaller in this generation.

Serious problems? Not really. The front end is vulnerable though - those oil coolers, intercoolers and radiator can get cracked easily, so check out the current damage and be aware of this. The front is low too, so be careful on curbs etc. But the engines are solid and very reliable. Take to basic tuning well, but if you want to go down this route, make sure its with a proven company who knows what they are doing - its easy to trigger limp home mode on them with mis-fires etc. This often takes a dealer to fix. Just be careful here.

Oh, and other than normal 205 model issues, they are solid. Fit and finish should be good, but interior panels might squeak, so be aware of it. Quality of the materials should be good though. There might be some electronic issues, but its pretty rare. I had a sunroof issue though, which is a common on the 205 models - can pop the brackets and it needs to be removed to fix it - dealer fix and can cost a bunch to fix! Check the sun roof works OK.

Gearbox needs careful maintenance so make sure this is done, but its solid and doesnt suffer major issues. Its the same one that is used in multiple higher power models, so its understressed.

simonwhite2000 said:

I am also re-searching if the bigger facelift media screen can be retrofitted. I think I have also seen some people who have retrofitted the digital cockpit however the analogue dials don't bother me.

Mmmm, good question and probably worth a full description. Dont go with a replacement with the full Merc system - its just not worth it. You can get an addon box though. They were expensive but much more reasonable these days. Brings Carplay and Android Auto to the screen (not touchscreen) and works well, nicely integrated. Will send a link if you are interested. Dont go with the Android replacement screen though - too many limitations from when I looked though. Works well, but you will loose features that are native. I can dig into this more though, let me know.

Thank you for such a detailed response. Really appreciate it.

I have watched quite a few vids on YT especially Raz on Remove Before Race - this vid particularly - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgz_XHj4dsQ&ab... - to get different opinions on pre or post facelift.

I wont be buying for a little while yet as have a very cheap BMW 840i M Sport GC on lease at the moment. Just for reference past cars have been 4 X B9 Audi S5's with one being tuned full Milltek etc. Why 4? First coupe was stolen after 6 months, then I had a soft top, then a Sportback, then went back to a heavily optioned coupe. Before that Golf R.

The facelift is quieter from the videos although not massively - the main bit missing is pops, bangs, crackles and the over-run noises. I know you can get devices that keep the valves open but that only helps the volume. I wonder if an ECU tune such as Litchfields will add not only add approx 70 bhp but also free up some frutier exhaust noises?

If I went pre-facelift I would want to add the new grille and bumper trims and the updated rear valance which i imagine isnt cheap. Factor in the newer dash screen and digital cockpit i might consider the facelift more if the exhaust noises can be improved. I might seem obsessed with the noise factor but that is really what has always made me crave a V8.

[off_again]

simonwhite2000 said:

The facelift is quieter from the videos although not massively - the main bit missing is pops, bangs, crackles and the over-run noises. I know you can get devices that keep the valves open but that only helps the volume. I wonder if an ECU tune such as Litchfields will add not only add approx 70 bhp but also free up some frutier exhaust noises?

Yeah, a gentle tune like that will improve things - I understand a lot of it is around the extra fuel that is dropped into the engine on the overrun that generates the pops and bangs. A gentle tune like that will improve it - though speak to Litchfields though, they will be able to fill in a lot of background. They have a reputation and a lot of experience here, so reach out if you want to know more. There are a few other reputable places too (I am in the US and there are a bunch of shady places too) but anyone who makes massive claims on BHP gains is probably pulling your leg though. Big HP is absolutely possible, but you need to really start messing with the ECU and looking at intake, exhaust, downpipes etc - all possible but expensive. There is one in Florida, of course, that is up to 1000HP with relatively simple mods, BUT it took a lot of testing and replacement of stuff to get there. Its impressive stuff though.

Oh, and if you do ask Litchfields, check if its a piggyback or ECU tune? I have no experience with either, but it seems that the piggyback is fine for low-end tunes and the pop / bang tune. For power you need the ECU tune.

simonwhite2000 said:

If I went pre-facelift I would want to add the new grille and bumper trims and the updated rear valance which i imagine isnt cheap. Factor in the newer dash screen and digital cockpit i might consider the facelift more if the exhaust noises can be improved. I might seem obsessed with the noise factor but that is really what has always made me crave a V8.

I dug out the Carplay / Android Auto thing - this is one place that does it. I am not endorsing them at all, and havent used this system. But the package that this company is offering is the one to go for - seamless, simple and doesnt replace any existing functionality:

https://unique-ad.co.uk/product/mercedes-w205-c-cl...

Others are available and there seems to be 2-3 different kits that work. If you replace the screen though, its possible you will drop the Mercedes functionality. Shouldnt be a big issue, but just saying. Most people just go for the plugin system as it works well. I had a very similar system in my Cayenne and it worked brilliantly. Just pushed a button to switch between the two and it was all seamless - though please note that the Merc system is not touch screen so its easier and simpler to integrate.

I'll upgrade mine at some point, but at the moment I am only driving maybe once a week, so cant justify it. But once life returns to some sort of normality, I will be upgrading.

[OGR]

Thanks for reply .

When did the facelift version launch .
What were differences
What does a S have over standard

Cheers

[anonymous-user]

Post facelift has better suspension geometry and tuning.

[OGR]

Thanks .

Is there a difference between performance and switchable exhaust?

[79TurboS]

I’ve run a S pre facelift saloon for 3.5 years now from new. The engine is perfect with plenty of power and torque, doubt anyone would ever feel the need to tune it. The car has been solid, with no real issues touch wood. Only thing that does niggle me is on comfort setting for suspension I think the car rides too firm and there should be a broader range of operation for the modes.

[Welshbeef]

I’ve an S205 C63 (pre facelift).
I don’t think anyone would possibly need more power on public roads it’s an extremely rapid car.

I prefer the look & practicality of the estate over saloon&coupe plus IMHO as an estate it is a faulty Q car which appeals to me.

Had mine 18 months so far, love the engine love the exhaust & the different modes really make a notable difference.
I usually have mine in comfort but sports exhaust on. I do have individual set to mad man setting to I can get to that when I need it

I use the paddles fairly often for more control but you don’t need to and when the drivetrain is in non comfort mode changes are really fast.

The rear can get pretty lose in damp/wet situations so throttle cannot be used as an on off switch. In the dry is so tractable.

[Freakuk]

I've just stumbled across this thread, and a bit of a hijack (maybe I should start a new thread), but I'm looking to replace my Cayman 981 GTS and a new C63S looks like it could fit the bill, I know nothing about them other than a few reviews, comments on here for example.

There seems to be some good deals on currently for a brand new car, dealer contributions up to 12K on certain specs from what I have seen, but then I've spotted a few demonstrators, less than 6 months old 5-8K cheaper than the new car deals.

Does anyone have any useful information I should be aware of, running costs, common issues, servicing etc. Also, in our current climate I am guessing this could be a remote purchase (some cars are 150-200 miles away that float my boat), so I don't really want to arrange a test drive, get caught on non-essential travel etc, does anyone have any advice/experience regarding this?

Many thanks

[anonymous-user]

I wouldn't purchase an ex demo car. They will have been driven hard. When I was taking one for a demo it had about 15 miles on the clock and the salesman booted it from cold then encouraged me to do the same.

I don't know what this means for the "keep under 4k revs etc." for the first 1200 miles, that Merc say before the RIS, but I doubt a single demo car has stuck to it.

[Welshbeef]

01WE01 said:

I wouldn't purchase an ex demo car. They will have been driven hard. When I was taking one for a demo it had about 15 miles on the clock and the salesman booted it from cold then encouraged me to do the same.

I don't know what this means for the "keep under 4k revs etc." for the first 1200 miles, that Merc say before the RIS, but I doubt a single demo car has stuck to it.

You have 2 years Merc AMG warranty bumper to bumper so nothing to worry about.

[anonymous-user]

But then you are reliant on issues materialising in that time; and it won't cover consumables.

I wouldn't, some may.

[Welshbeef]

01WE01 said:

But then you are reliant on issues materialising in that time; and it won't cover consumables.

I wouldn't, some may.

These cars are generally very high in number of owners - like many high performance cars.

Clearly it doesn’t cover consumables but you can see tyres and brake depth + Merc have a policy that tread depth and brake pad and disc thickness needs to be above a certain limit.

[off_again]

Freakuk said:

I've just stumbled across this thread, and a bit of a hijack (maybe I should start a new thread), but I'm looking to replace my Cayman 981 GTS and a new C63S looks like it could fit the bill, I know nothing about them other than a few reviews, comments on here for example.

Mmm, thats a big shift in style and driving dynamics. The Cayman will feel light, nimble and dynamic in comparison with the C63S. The AMG will be brutally fast in comparison too, but very different. I really recommend driving one though. Its not a light car and while the dynamics are a major step on from the 204 model, its no sports car. Not saying dont do it, but it will absolutely feel very different.

Freakuk said:

There seems to be some good deals on currently for a brand new car, dealer contributions up to 12K on certain specs from what I have seen, but then I've spotted a few demonstrators, less than 6 months old 5-8K cheaper than the new car deals.

Yeah, deals to be had. I am in the US and some buyers are reporting cracking lease deals, deep discounts and offers available. It is still an expensive car, but remember its due to be replaced ASAP - new 206 model announced with deliveries (in Europe at least) in May! So there will be a kick-on affect on what is in reality, the previous model. The new one is a major step forward in its infotainment, but as widely reported, no AMG models announced yet and likely to be 4 cylinder turbo hybrids - so I guess people are waiting to see. Worth noting that the market for big engined smaller cars has dropped off and most Merc dealers here just have SUV's for sale. I wonder what the mix of models are they selling now.

Freakuk said:

Does anyone have any useful information I should be aware of, running costs, common issues, servicing etc. Also, in our current climate I am guessing this could be a remote purchase (some cars are 150-200 miles away that float my boat), so I don't really want to arrange a test drive, get caught on non-essential travel etc, does anyone have any advice/experience regarding this?

Many thanks

I cant really comment on running costs as its going to be different here, but what I can say the intervals are virtually the same as the lesser models and mine hasnt required anything other than routine maintenance (and a few small fixes and the sunroof mounts replaced under warranty). So do expect servicing to be higher as its a big engine with a lot of expensive oil. On running costs, depending on your driving style, it will eat tires! So be prepared for that and do note that the traction control / e-dif system will brake the rear wheels - its clever and does work, but it means they can (if driven a certain way) go through rear brake pads quickly! However, the pads and discs are not stupidly expensive, so check wear first.

Common problems really focus on the 205 platform as a whole. Batteries (for the supplemental start stop system) seem to go pretty regularly, the sunroof is a known weak point (mine popped the mounts and wouldnt close), interior squeaks and rattles are common and some people have reported electronic issues. I understand the lower non-AMG models can have issues with mis-fires and gearbox problems, but seems rare. So think common 205 issues really. Engine is solid and really doesnt suffer any problems until you start tuning. But make sure you understand EVERYTHING that might have been done to it, and what the history is - and if its a dealer, get them to show you the report and do a full system scan on the ECU - need to know if it has had a misfire at all in the past (indicative of tuning / mapping). Earlier models had a big toe-in on the front wheels that means they will wear unevenly, but there is a modification that can be done to straighten that out, face-lift models corrected much of this. Check the tracking and suspension too - the adaptive dampers are expensive to replace! Oh, and think common things that are just 'Mercedes expensive' - mine has the adaptive lights (not sure what is standard in other markets). They are great, but replacement costs are $2k EACH!!!! Madness! Oh, and mine has the carbon brakes, and they should be in fantastic condition too, as those are $4k to replace! Expect other expensive costs of some parts.

Mercedes did cheap out a little on some of the interior parts and fittings, which is a shame. However, it should be clean and most of it is hardwearing. And the biggest thing I can recommend is make sure you like the seats. Standard comfort ones are good, which I have. The optional sports seats are good too, but I suffer in them! A friend has the sports seats and loves it. Its a real hit-or-miss thing, and could be a deal breaker - just check them out before you commit. Would hate for an uncomfortable seat to ruin an otherwise good car.

Oh, and one last comment - the ride..... its not great. In comfort its what most other manufacturers would consider sport! Put it in Sport+ and its rock solid. I dont mind it, but on the wrong surface its noisy and poor. Feels great, but again, coming from a Porsche, its will most likely feel excessive, even a GTS!

But the drive is great, always feels special and that engine dominates the experience. Get past the engine and the car itself is very accomplished too. Its fun to hustle along and can get 'fun' with the electronics keeping you from anything too serious. Tunnels never get boring and in reality, its probably more than enough power for the road with a RWD chassis, cant really see needing more! And get it on a longer run, its surprisingly economical too - about 20% better than the Cayenne 4.8S that I had before it. Its a special little thing.

[GTRene]

off_again said:

Mercedes did cheap out a little on some of the interior parts and fittings, which is a shame. However, it should be clean and most of it is hardwearing. And the biggest thing I can recommend is make sure you like the seats. Standard comfort ones are good, which I have. The optional sports seats are good too, but I suffer in them! A friend has the sports seats and loves it. Its a real hit-or-miss thing, and could be a deal breaker - just check them out before you commit. Would hate for an uncomfortable seat to ruin an otherwise good car.

Those seats sport, but not the bucket seats you mean?
ifso, I love those, not owned such car, but took a seat at some with this seats, for me LHD perfect sit, a bit like the recaro's sportster in bmw, artega gt, Renault sport etc)

Don't know how the full buckets feel, never got a chance to se and try those, mostly used as option in the AMG GT R

those are the normal sportseats? I saw them also in the c63 S edition 1 versions those with edition 1 in the steering wheel and res-ish carbon, like this.

[Freakuk]

off_again said:

I cant really comment on running costs as its going to be different here, but what I can say the intervals are virtually the same as the lesser models and mine hasnt required anything other than routine maintenance (and a few small fixes and the sunroof mounts replaced under warranty). So do expect servicing to be higher as its a big engine with a lot of expensive oil. On running costs, depending on your driving style, it will eat tires! So be prepared for that and do note that the traction control / e-dif system will brake the rear wheels - its clever and does work, but it means they can (if driven a certain way) go through rear brake pads quickly! However, the pads and discs are not stupidly expensive, so check wear first.

Common problems really focus on the 205 platform as a whole. Batteries (for the supplemental start stop system) seem to go pretty regularly, the sunroof is a known weak point (mine popped the mounts and wouldnt close), interior squeaks and rattles are common and some people have reported electronic issues. I understand the lower non-AMG models can have issues with mis-fires and gearbox problems, but seems rare. So think common 205 issues really. Engine is solid and really doesnt suffer any problems until you start tuning. But make sure you understand EVERYTHING that might have been done to it, and what the history is - and if its a dealer, get them to show you the report and do a full system scan on the ECU - need to know if it has had a misfire at all in the past (indicative of tuning / mapping). Earlier models had a big toe-in on the front wheels that means they will wear unevenly, but there is a modification that can be done to straighten that out, face-lift models corrected much of this. Check the tracking and suspension too - the adaptive dampers are expensive to replace! Oh, and think common things that are just 'Mercedes expensive' - mine has the adaptive lights (not sure what is standard in other markets). They are great, but replacement costs are $2k EACH!!!! Madness! Oh, and mine has the carbon brakes, and they should be in fantastic condition too, as those are $4k to replace! Expect other expensive costs of some parts.

Mercedes did cheap out a little on some of the interior parts and fittings, which is a shame. However, it should be clean and most of it is hardwearing. And the biggest thing I can recommend is make sure you like the seats. Standard comfort ones are good, which I have. The optional sports seats are good too, but I suffer in them! A friend has the sports seats and loves it. Its a real hit-or-miss thing, and could be a deal breaker - just check them out before you commit. Would hate for an uncomfortable seat to ruin an otherwise good car.

Oh, and one last comment - the ride..... its not great. In comfort its what most other manufacturers would consider sport! Put it in Sport+ and its rock solid. I dont mind it, but on the wrong surface its noisy and poor. Feels great, but again, coming from a Porsche, its will most likely feel excessive, even a GTS!

But the drive is great, always feels special and that engine dominates the experience. Get past the engine and the car itself is very accomplished too. Its fun to hustle along and can get 'fun' with the electronics keeping you from anything too serious. Tunnels never get boring and in reality, its probably more than enough power for the road with a RWD chassis, cant really see needing more! And get it on a longer run, its surprisingly economical too - about 20% better than the Cayenne 4.8S that I had before it. Its a special little thing.

Thanks for the long informative reply, I'm still in two minds if I'm honest and I do need to get behind the wheel and take one for a drive but given we're still in a lockdown that won't be something that can easily be done. Plus I took my Cayman for a quick blast yesterday and it's all the car I need, but it is 6 years old now.

I saw the new model was announced a few days ago and although there's no AMG etc currently I don't like the new MB styling of late, but it would hit residuals down the line, it's a difficult one.

I guess I'm also looking at the bleak future of motoring and think I should get a big V8 before everything is hybrid/EV to tick that box???

[Welshbeef]

Freakuk said:

Thanks for the long informative reply, I'm still in two minds if I'm honest and I do need to get behind the wheel and take one for a drive but given we're still in a lockdown that won't be something that can easily be done. Plus I took my Cayman for a quick blast yesterday and it's all the car I need, but it is 6 years old now.

I saw the new model was announced a few days ago and although there's no AMG etc currently I don't like the new MB styling of late, but it would hit residuals down the line, it's a difficult one.

I guess I'm also looking at the bleak future of motoring and think I should get a big V8 before everything is hybrid/EV to tick that box???

It will not be a light switch situation ICE will continue for decades