I want a Busso-engined Alfa - but which one?
Discussion
Went to see a 156. I had a nagging worry it would be a bit underwhelming in the flesh, but it really wasn't. Loved the engine, although it wasn't as quick as I expected - and even came back a total convert to the black leather and faux carbon interior.
A couple of things did strike me. Firstly, the rust looks pretty serious. Secondly, the brakes were rubbish. I'd only stepped out of my wife's Corolla, yet it wasn't anything like as good. Just passed its MOT with flying colours and I've heard people say the standard 156 brakes aren't great, but surely they're not that bad normally?
Loved the concept, though. If it had been mint I'd have bought it on the spot.
A couple of things did strike me. Firstly, the rust looks pretty serious. Secondly, the brakes were rubbish. I'd only stepped out of my wife's Corolla, yet it wasn't anything like as good. Just passed its MOT with flying colours and I've heard people say the standard 156 brakes aren't great, but surely they're not that bad normally?
Loved the concept, though. If it had been mint I'd have bought it on the spot.
Most modern cars are over servo'd and we very easily get used to it. With the 156 brakes theres not much assistance, you just have to press them harder, however when pressing hard they should be 'ok'. If its that bad probably needs a brake bleed and check discs/pads. A common upgrade is GTA brembos (youll also need the hubs and bigger wheels). Or aparantly the Brembos from the Punto/Mito bolt straight on a 156.
I still think that the 155 or 156 are better "value" ie cheaper at the moment that something earlier like the 75 - I love the transaxle cars - have 4 or 5 of them - but they do cost more to maintain in terms of transaxle tax (propshaft issues, gearbox mounts, etc etc, dodgy lights and electric window issues).
Also in terms of regular use, I suspect the 156/155 will be more bearable in terms of mod cons and resistance to rust if looked after.
Also in terms of regular use, I suspect the 156/155 will be more bearable in terms of mod cons and resistance to rust if looked after.
davebem said:
Most modern cars are over servo'd and we very easily get used to it. With the 156 brakes theres not much assistance, you just have to press them harder, however when pressing hard they should be 'ok'. If its that bad probably needs a brake bleed and check discs/pads. A common upgrade is GTA brembos (youll also need the hubs and bigger wheels). Or aparantly the Brembos from the Punto/Mito bolt straight on a 156.
I'm used to driving cars with no assistance (sometimes with drums on the front!) so I don't think it's that. This one struggled to trigger the ABS with budget tyres on a wet road.davebem said:
Most modern cars are over servo'd and we very easily get used to it. With the 156 brakes theres not much assistance, you just have to press them harder, however when pressing hard they should be 'ok'. If its that bad probably needs a brake bleed and check discs/pads. A common upgrade is GTA brembos (youll also need the hubs and bigger wheels). Or aparantly the Brembos from the Punto/Mito bolt straight on a 156.
The 156 has five stud wheels. It's not relevant to this post but the Punto/Mito are 4 x 100PCD compared to all the other Fiat/Alfa 4 x 98PCD which is weird but it shares the same hubs (so I've been told) as the Corsa & Fiesta which shares the same chassis/platform. Chris71 said:
Secondly, the brakes were rubbish. I'd only stepped out of my wife's Corolla, yet it wasn't anything like as good. Just passed its MOT with flying colours and I've heard people say the standard 156 brakes aren't great, but surely they're not that bad normally?
156s - particularly the V6 and 2.4 JTD - are massively under braked. The standard pads are too small, and as so many skimp on maintenance chances are an old one - and they're all old now - will have some crappy el cheapo pads fitted. As a result they'll be actively scary. Fit some decent pads like Autolusso's Performance Friction ones or Ferrodo DS2500s and you're well on the way to adequate braking. After a service/cambelt if needed, decent pads is the first thing I put on any 156 I buy. I quite value being able to stop 
Mr E said:
I don't recall the 156 having partially poor brakes. I never suffered significant fade.
Spoke to a guy who races a 156 who said they're fine for track use with some decent pads on OE discs. I think a lot of them are just into 'cheap old car' territory with maintenance budgets to suit.In other news, the search continues... Been looking seriously for a couple of months now and even the slightly dubious ones seem to have dried up.
Thought I'd had a breakthrough the other day when someone replied to a post on the AROC selling page on Facebook. How many miles did I want, he asked? What sort of budget did I have, he asked? He then posted a pic of a smart red-with-tan 156 V6. 'Great,' I thought, 'that looks promising'. Turned out it wasn't for sale and he just wanted to boast about how much money he'd turned down for his incredibly valuable pride and joy.
Mr E said:
I don't recall the 156 having partially poor brakes. I never suffered significant fade.
I do recall catching the undertray on everything, and swearing at the steering lock on regular occasion.
I do recall catching the undertray on everything, and swearing at the steering lock on regular occasion.
I agree - the brakes on my GTA have never given me a brown trouser moment and I'm a fairly brisk and enthusiastic driver.
But you do need a billiard table smooth surface to avoid the dreaded crunch and the turning circle is completely ridiculous!
Peter
Chris71 said:
I'm aware of how incredibly superficial this sounds, but I've always wanted an Alfa with the Busso V6 and I'm pretty open minded on the exact model.
I started seriously contemplating GTVs at the beginning of the year. That was abruptly curtailed when buying a house took priority. My finances are still a bit complicated as a result - I don't actually know what my budget will be until we've completed the move later this month, but my guess is I could afford a half decent 156/166 V6 now or a hang on for a GTV V6 or GT at the end of the year. There's also the wildcard option of abandoning the V6 obsession and considering a GTV Twin Spark.
So, what would you recommend?
I work primarily from home, so mpg isn't massively critical. However, the car will be my primary means of transport, so it's got to start in the morning, operate in all weathers and leave me reasonably fresh at the end of a long motorway journey. The latter is a relative term, admittedly. My last daily driver was a Mk1 MX-5.
In terms of practicality, I could get by with a GTV. My wife's car currently serves for family duties and the added practicality of the saloons would be redundant unless they come with ISOFIX (which I don't believe they do?) That said, while I prefer the looks of the coupes, it did occur to me that the saloons might be better for my long motorway trips.
I might have fabulous black 156 2.5V6 soon for sale if you’re still interested in buying one...I started seriously contemplating GTVs at the beginning of the year. That was abruptly curtailed when buying a house took priority. My finances are still a bit complicated as a result - I don't actually know what my budget will be until we've completed the move later this month, but my guess is I could afford a half decent 156/166 V6 now or a hang on for a GTV V6 or GT at the end of the year. There's also the wildcard option of abandoning the V6 obsession and considering a GTV Twin Spark.
So, what would you recommend?
I work primarily from home, so mpg isn't massively critical. However, the car will be my primary means of transport, so it's got to start in the morning, operate in all weathers and leave me reasonably fresh at the end of a long motorway journey. The latter is a relative term, admittedly. My last daily driver was a Mk1 MX-5.
In terms of practicality, I could get by with a GTV. My wife's car currently serves for family duties and the added practicality of the saloons would be redundant unless they come with ISOFIX (which I don't believe they do?) That said, while I prefer the looks of the coupes, it did occur to me that the saloons might be better for my long motorway trips.
2002 facelift interior with LOADS of money and new parts thrown at it since I own it...
Edited by maly85 on Tuesday 17th October 05:23
maly85 said:
I might have fabulous black 156 2.5V6 soon for sale if you’re still interested in buying one...
2002 facelift interior with LOADS of money and new parts thrown at it since I own it...
2002 facelift interior with LOADS of money and new parts thrown at it since I own it...
Edited by maly85 on Tuesday 17th October 05:23
Alas, I gave up the hunt this week and bought an E46 coupe instead. I searched for a good 156 V6 pretty much every day from the end of July and the one that seemed promising enough to visit turned out to have inner wheel arches made of cheese.
The irony, of course, is that my nice reliable German car has developed a fault even before I've collected it...
psi310398 said:
FWIW, I do not regret for a minute buying a 156 GTA. Mine has the Selespeed gearbox. It was not cheap but it is in very good nick.
Fuel economy is non-existent (at least the way I drive it) but I find I go miles out of my way to find tunnels, to fling it through twisting country lanes and to blat up and down hills.
Peter
"..............."............."...............".......Fuel economy is non-existent (at least the way I drive it) but I find I go miles out of my way to find tunnels, to fling it through twisting country lanes and to blat up and down hills.
Peter
Hello,
You may have seen my post re 156 GTA prices. I, too, have a Selespeed, although mine is a Sportwagon and in exceptional condition ( I bought it new, and it now has less than 38k miles on the clock ).
Can I ask how much you paid for yours ? Alternatively, what do you think it's value is now ?
Cheers,
Rosanne.
Rosanne said:
"..............."............."...............".......
Hello,
You may have seen my post re 156 GTA prices. I, too, have a Selespeed, although mine is a Sportwagon and in exceptional condition ( I bought it new, and it now has less than 38k miles on the clock ).
Can I ask how much you paid for yours ? Alternatively, what do you think it's value is now ?
Cheers,
Rosanne.
Rosanne,Hello,
You may have seen my post re 156 GTA prices. I, too, have a Selespeed, although mine is a Sportwagon and in exceptional condition ( I bought it new, and it now has less than 38k miles on the clock ).
Can I ask how much you paid for yours ? Alternatively, what do you think it's value is now ?
Cheers,
Rosanne.
I don't think mine is concours standard but it is very clean and everything (bar airbag light) works as it should:
I've recently been offered £14k for it, but I'm not selling.
Peter
maly85 said:
I might have fabulous black 156 2.5V6 soon for sale if you’re still interested in buying one...
2002 facelift interior with LOADS of money and new parts thrown at it since I own it...
Could you provide a few more details please - mileage, service history, your location?2002 facelift interior with LOADS of money and new parts thrown at it since I own it...
Edited by maly85 on Tuesday 17th October 05:23
ian996 said:
Have you tried jiggling the yellow connector under the passenger seat? my airbag light was on and off like a , well a thing that kept going on and off, but once I'd reseated the connector its been 100% fine.
IanYes, I have but thanks for the thought. The PO had narrowed it down to the connector in the boot cavity for the side curtain airbag. He and I have both attempted to reseat it.
When I put the car in to the garage for its service, we ended up agreeing that soldering the connection or similar was probably a bit risky and that I should wait until the headliner had to come out for some other reason and then replace the curtain airbag and wiring at that time.
As I spend a lot of time in Italy, I might also take the car into an Italian auto-electrician nearby who probably deals with 156 every day and ask him.
Peter
Chris71 said:
Alas, I gave up the hunt this week and bought an E46 coupe instead. I searched for a good 156 V6 pretty much every day from the end of July and the one that seemed promising enough to visit turned out to have inner wheel arches made of cheese.
The irony, of course, is that my nice reliable German car has developed a fault even before I've collected it...
Thats what I did!
maly85 said:
2003, 2.5 V6 Lusso, Sport pack, 6-speed manual, facelift interior, metallic black. (Only 6 left in UK !! )
The car has done about 20K miles in the 2.5 years I owned it. It’s driven every day with the occasional trip on the weekends; never revved when cold. The car is kept in a private parking during the day and night, away from the elements.
The car is rust free and it starts, idles and runs perfectly (on 10W60 Selenia sport fully synthetic). The ECU is regularly scanned for errors and is free of any. Body paint in very good condition with usual stone chips on the front and other minor marks. The full Recaro leather interiors are in pristine conditions apart from usual driver’s bolster wear.
Few touches like the slammed look, black painted front grille and mesh, Autodelta dualpipe backbox, red calipers, 17” multi-spoke alloys, clear side indicators, GTA headlights and xenon lights help the car feel more modern and a lot sportier.
Having spent a small fortune and a lot of time (same goes for previous owner) on proactively maintaining the car,
there are no suspension knocks, no electrical gremlins, no MAF/idling issues and no leaks of sort. All typical problems on these Alfas – but to be fair most of the niggly problems that affected the first model had been well and truly ironed out in the 2003 model. I owned two first model 156s… I would know!
Words cannot describe the true awesomeness of the Busso V6 engine. It sounds incredible and its ‘naked’ look with those chrome manifold intakes looks a million bucks. Miles away from the usual plastic covered engines found in most other cars. A looker really, which erogates 192HP with the BMC airbox and Autodelta’s backbox adding few more.
A 15 years old car is an ongoing project, but I honestly think it’d hard to find another 156 as well cared for as this one. Great for any petrolhead who finally decided to give a good old Alfa a try or a younger driver who wants to try a bigger-engined car.
6 months MOT, about 120,000 miles. Full service history (10 stamps) and loads of receipts all the way back to 2006.
Both keys are present and working, as well as the radio code and all original manuals.
ORIGINAL SPECS:
- Recaro sport leather seats (rare) – charcoal grey with red stitching
- Leather steering wheel with built-in stereo controls
- Bose awesomeness - multi-speaker stereo system with CD
- Dual zone climate control (& fancy digital readouts)
- Infocentre (digital trip computer)
- Electric seats, windows & mirrors
- 6 x bouncy castle airbags
- Isofix child seat mountings
- Factory-mounted bootlid spoiler – improves aerodynamics according to Alfa. I was not a fan myself initially, but its design does complement the curves on the car
- Traction control switch
- Cruise control
- EBD (Electronic Brakeforce Distribution)
- VCD (Vehicle Dynamic Control) stability control
- ASR (Anti Slip Regulation) + MSR (Motor Slip Regulation)
- ABS
AFTERMARKET UPGRADES:
- 3.5cm lowered on Koni springs
- 17” multispoke alloy. wheels
- Autodelta’s GTA stainless steel twin-pipe exhaust (£500)
- BMC performance Carbon Dynamic Airbox (£230) - original box with new filter incl.
- Larger 3.0 V6 Chrome intake pipes
- Goodridge metal braided brake lines
- Sport pads
- Metal impellor water pump
- Xenon headlights with ballasts – original lamps incl., easy to fit back
- GTA see-through headlights glass
- Clear side indicators
- Red painted calipers
- Black painted front grille and mesh
REPLACEMENTS (2017):
-New gearbox oil (tutella 75W85)
-New engine oil (Selenia 10W60 fully synthetic)
-New brake fluid
-All 6 NGK platinum spark plugs
-New GTA clutch
-New crankshaft main oil seal
-New gearbox input shaft seal
-Middle silencer delete
-Whole front suspension replaced: top wishbones (both side)
Bottom wishbones (both side)
Drop links (both side)
-Wheel alignment & centring
-New upper engine mount
REPLACEMENTS (2016):
-New front lambda sensors
-New master clutch cylinder
-new clutch slave cylinder
-New water pump ( metal impeller )
-New timing belt with idlers and tensioner
-Autolusso air intake elbow silicone hose
-New Rose motorsport coolant silicone hose kit
-New all aluminium radiator
-Oil waxed underside of the car
-New exhaust downpipes
REPLACEMENTS (2015):
- New oil (5W40 fully synthetic) and filter
- New thermostat, gasket & sender
- New 225/45 R17 Toyo Proxes T1-R x 4 (£440)
- Wheel alignment & centring
- New drilled + grooved powder-coated discs (incl. hubs) x 4
- New metal braided brake lines
- New rear calipers
- New sport brake pads x 4
REPLACEMENTS (2014):
- New front anti roll bar with polyurethane bushings
- New crankshaft pulley and bolt
- New water pump pulley
- New metal impellor water pump
- New auxiliary belt
REPLACEMENTS (2013):
- Full service (NGK Platinum spark plugs, oil, filters, coils checked)
- New front upper and lower control arms
- New front upper strut mounts
- New front anti roll bar drop links (heavy duty, 4yrs warranty)
REPLACEMENTS (2012):
- New gearbox oil (Tutela 75W85)
- New rear upper and lower control arms
- Fixed loose Airbag connectors
REPLACEMENTS (2011):
- New steering wheel
- New MAF
- New genuine Alfa mid cats
- New front pipes and flexi sections
- New Cam belt, idlers and tensioner
- New lambdas x 4
Location: Northern Ireland
If this is still for sale, how do I get in touch with you?The car has done about 20K miles in the 2.5 years I owned it. It’s driven every day with the occasional trip on the weekends; never revved when cold. The car is kept in a private parking during the day and night, away from the elements.
The car is rust free and it starts, idles and runs perfectly (on 10W60 Selenia sport fully synthetic). The ECU is regularly scanned for errors and is free of any. Body paint in very good condition with usual stone chips on the front and other minor marks. The full Recaro leather interiors are in pristine conditions apart from usual driver’s bolster wear.
Few touches like the slammed look, black painted front grille and mesh, Autodelta dualpipe backbox, red calipers, 17” multi-spoke alloys, clear side indicators, GTA headlights and xenon lights help the car feel more modern and a lot sportier.
Having spent a small fortune and a lot of time (same goes for previous owner) on proactively maintaining the car,
there are no suspension knocks, no electrical gremlins, no MAF/idling issues and no leaks of sort. All typical problems on these Alfas – but to be fair most of the niggly problems that affected the first model had been well and truly ironed out in the 2003 model. I owned two first model 156s… I would know!
Words cannot describe the true awesomeness of the Busso V6 engine. It sounds incredible and its ‘naked’ look with those chrome manifold intakes looks a million bucks. Miles away from the usual plastic covered engines found in most other cars. A looker really, which erogates 192HP with the BMC airbox and Autodelta’s backbox adding few more.
A 15 years old car is an ongoing project, but I honestly think it’d hard to find another 156 as well cared for as this one. Great for any petrolhead who finally decided to give a good old Alfa a try or a younger driver who wants to try a bigger-engined car.
6 months MOT, about 120,000 miles. Full service history (10 stamps) and loads of receipts all the way back to 2006.
Both keys are present and working, as well as the radio code and all original manuals.
ORIGINAL SPECS:
- Recaro sport leather seats (rare) – charcoal grey with red stitching
- Leather steering wheel with built-in stereo controls
- Bose awesomeness - multi-speaker stereo system with CD
- Dual zone climate control (& fancy digital readouts)
- Infocentre (digital trip computer)
- Electric seats, windows & mirrors
- 6 x bouncy castle airbags
- Isofix child seat mountings
- Factory-mounted bootlid spoiler – improves aerodynamics according to Alfa. I was not a fan myself initially, but its design does complement the curves on the car
- Traction control switch
- Cruise control
- EBD (Electronic Brakeforce Distribution)
- VCD (Vehicle Dynamic Control) stability control
- ASR (Anti Slip Regulation) + MSR (Motor Slip Regulation)
- ABS
AFTERMARKET UPGRADES:
- 3.5cm lowered on Koni springs
- 17” multispoke alloy. wheels
- Autodelta’s GTA stainless steel twin-pipe exhaust (£500)
- BMC performance Carbon Dynamic Airbox (£230) - original box with new filter incl.
- Larger 3.0 V6 Chrome intake pipes
- Goodridge metal braided brake lines
- Sport pads
- Metal impellor water pump
- Xenon headlights with ballasts – original lamps incl., easy to fit back
- GTA see-through headlights glass
- Clear side indicators
- Red painted calipers
- Black painted front grille and mesh
REPLACEMENTS (2017):
-New gearbox oil (tutella 75W85)
-New engine oil (Selenia 10W60 fully synthetic)
-New brake fluid
-All 6 NGK platinum spark plugs
-New GTA clutch
-New crankshaft main oil seal
-New gearbox input shaft seal
-Middle silencer delete
-Whole front suspension replaced: top wishbones (both side)
Bottom wishbones (both side)
Drop links (both side)
-Wheel alignment & centring
-New upper engine mount
REPLACEMENTS (2016):
-New front lambda sensors
-New master clutch cylinder
-new clutch slave cylinder
-New water pump ( metal impeller )
-New timing belt with idlers and tensioner
-Autolusso air intake elbow silicone hose
-New Rose motorsport coolant silicone hose kit
-New all aluminium radiator
-Oil waxed underside of the car
-New exhaust downpipes
REPLACEMENTS (2015):
- New oil (5W40 fully synthetic) and filter
- New thermostat, gasket & sender
- New 225/45 R17 Toyo Proxes T1-R x 4 (£440)
- Wheel alignment & centring
- New drilled + grooved powder-coated discs (incl. hubs) x 4
- New metal braided brake lines
- New rear calipers
- New sport brake pads x 4
REPLACEMENTS (2014):
- New front anti roll bar with polyurethane bushings
- New crankshaft pulley and bolt
- New water pump pulley
- New metal impellor water pump
- New auxiliary belt
REPLACEMENTS (2013):
- Full service (NGK Platinum spark plugs, oil, filters, coils checked)
- New front upper and lower control arms
- New front upper strut mounts
- New front anti roll bar drop links (heavy duty, 4yrs warranty)
REPLACEMENTS (2012):
- New gearbox oil (Tutela 75W85)
- New rear upper and lower control arms
- Fixed loose Airbag connectors
REPLACEMENTS (2011):
- New steering wheel
- New MAF
- New genuine Alfa mid cats
- New front pipes and flexi sections
- New Cam belt, idlers and tensioner
- New lambdas x 4
Location: Northern Ireland
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