Any GT 1.9JTDM owners on here?
Discussion
Hi all, I've not ventured into this part of PH before but it's really starting to feel like time to scratch the itch. GT prices are hilariously low currently it seems, and I'm really drawn to the idea of one as a daily driver to replace my entirely mundane and unattractive Golf. I'm well into bangernomics currently with the Golf costing me a princely £50, but it does the job and nothing more, and having to drive a car every day that I never really desired or had any lust for is a little grating! The GT is calling with that lovely shape and interior, however it would be the daily and my weekends are TVR-shaped and thirsty so the least sanity I can resort to is to opt for the relatively econominal 1.9 derv. I know little about the car nor engine though, so any owners on here that can share their experiences and a little guidance? It would be much appreciated!
Cheers
Cheers
I have a 3.2 GT and my father in law has a 1.9 Blackline, so I am sort of qualified.
It's an absurdly practical car - you can get a fridge in the back. Rear seat passengers are rather more cramped.
It's a 932 underneath, so all of the 156/147 suspension issues are there. As long as it doesn't knock and bang it will be tolerable, but a suspension refresh and proper set up absolutely transforms the car. Anything at high mileage will have knackered suspension, even it has just passsed an MOT.
They don't rust as badly as 156s, but people jack them up under the sills, which bends everything and corrosion starts. Check this.
If it has been standing for a while and the dash lights up like a Christmas tree, suspect the battery. Otherwise the electrics are good.
Get one of the earlier ones, no DPF. Remapping makes a huge difference, but you will burn clutches if you cane it. Definitely a car for in gear acceleration, not tear arsing off the line.
Required mods that really do improve things....
- Eibach ARBs
- Decent shocks and springs. Bilstein B6, Koni FSDs and Eibach coilovers have all been good on my cars.
- LSD, do at the same time as the ARBs.
- Poly the upper arms, and the rear hub bush
Looking at that list ... my usual approach is to buy cheap and toss all the suspension in the bin....
It's an absurdly practical car - you can get a fridge in the back. Rear seat passengers are rather more cramped.
It's a 932 underneath, so all of the 156/147 suspension issues are there. As long as it doesn't knock and bang it will be tolerable, but a suspension refresh and proper set up absolutely transforms the car. Anything at high mileage will have knackered suspension, even it has just passsed an MOT.
They don't rust as badly as 156s, but people jack them up under the sills, which bends everything and corrosion starts. Check this.
If it has been standing for a while and the dash lights up like a Christmas tree, suspect the battery. Otherwise the electrics are good.
Get one of the earlier ones, no DPF. Remapping makes a huge difference, but you will burn clutches if you cane it. Definitely a car for in gear acceleration, not tear arsing off the line.
Required mods that really do improve things....
- Eibach ARBs
- Decent shocks and springs. Bilstein B6, Koni FSDs and Eibach coilovers have all been good on my cars.
- LSD, do at the same time as the ARBs.
- Poly the upper arms, and the rear hub bush
Looking at that list ... my usual approach is to buy cheap and toss all the suspension in the bin....
I have a 2008 GT Blackline diesel. I bought it in 2013 with 150,000 miles on it and I've added more than 80,000 since then
Good points:-
Absurdly reliable - the only breakdown was a frayed engine earth cable that wouldn't let it start. Other than at services, I have never added any oil.
Comfortable - 500 mile days are easy - seats are great
Hard-wearing - once cleaned, the interior and exterior of mine look like its done less than 100k - not your typical Italian build quality.
No electrical gremlins, other than a dead boot light, due to a sticky boot lock not tripping the micro-switch
Ridiculously practical - I've had a washing machine, microwave and full-size Dyson in the back with the seats down. Seats up, its a genuine four-seater, but the roof line is a bit low in the back for anyone over about 5'10"
Decent fuel economy - not up with modern diesels, but I average 46 mpg over a fairly slow commute that often includes stop-start traffic. 50mpg on a run is easy, 55mpg if I try. I've seen mid to high 60's if I slipstream the trucks
Pretty neat handling (for a FWD oil-burner, at least)
Pulls well, especially after a remap
Subjective, I know, but it still looks pretty decent amongst all the bland euro-boxes on the M42 each morning and evening
Bad points
Not particularly refined - the same engine in the 159 / Brera feels much better, but that's just down to better sound insulation. Not too bad once rolling though. I really can't understand why Alfa never put the 2.4 5-pot diesel in the GT - would have been a bit more characterful
Suspension components are made from chocolate - I'm on my third set of front wishbones in four years. Think of them as consumables and its not so bad
Tracking is easily knocked out of line, but the rear can be tracked as well, so its easy enough to get it sorted
EGR is a menace - get it blanked off and mapped out
Swirl flaps can be ingested, with horrible consequences for the valves, or if it misses the valves, it usually clatters the turbo on its way out. Fix them or remove them.
Quite a few squeaks & rattles, but I suppose its only to be expected from a 230,000 mile Italian car....
Blows headlamp bulbs a lot and sidelight bulbs even more often - a pain to get at with the standard headlamps and even worse if it has xenons
Rust is becoming an issue on some (usually petrol GTs) - check VERY carefully, especially the floorpan and sills
So - if you can pick up a good one for under £2,500, its a great buy. Watch out for money-pits though - big money stuff that can cause a hefty bill, such as:-
Clutch and DMF
Turbo
Swirl flap ingestion
Suspension
I'd have another if I was looking for stylish bangernomics
Good points:-
Absurdly reliable - the only breakdown was a frayed engine earth cable that wouldn't let it start. Other than at services, I have never added any oil.
Comfortable - 500 mile days are easy - seats are great
Hard-wearing - once cleaned, the interior and exterior of mine look like its done less than 100k - not your typical Italian build quality.
No electrical gremlins, other than a dead boot light, due to a sticky boot lock not tripping the micro-switch
Ridiculously practical - I've had a washing machine, microwave and full-size Dyson in the back with the seats down. Seats up, its a genuine four-seater, but the roof line is a bit low in the back for anyone over about 5'10"
Decent fuel economy - not up with modern diesels, but I average 46 mpg over a fairly slow commute that often includes stop-start traffic. 50mpg on a run is easy, 55mpg if I try. I've seen mid to high 60's if I slipstream the trucks
Pretty neat handling (for a FWD oil-burner, at least)
Pulls well, especially after a remap
Subjective, I know, but it still looks pretty decent amongst all the bland euro-boxes on the M42 each morning and evening
Bad points
Not particularly refined - the same engine in the 159 / Brera feels much better, but that's just down to better sound insulation. Not too bad once rolling though. I really can't understand why Alfa never put the 2.4 5-pot diesel in the GT - would have been a bit more characterful
Suspension components are made from chocolate - I'm on my third set of front wishbones in four years. Think of them as consumables and its not so bad
Tracking is easily knocked out of line, but the rear can be tracked as well, so its easy enough to get it sorted
EGR is a menace - get it blanked off and mapped out
Swirl flaps can be ingested, with horrible consequences for the valves, or if it misses the valves, it usually clatters the turbo on its way out. Fix them or remove them.
Quite a few squeaks & rattles, but I suppose its only to be expected from a 230,000 mile Italian car....
Blows headlamp bulbs a lot and sidelight bulbs even more often - a pain to get at with the standard headlamps and even worse if it has xenons
Rust is becoming an issue on some (usually petrol GTs) - check VERY carefully, especially the floorpan and sills
So - if you can pick up a good one for under £2,500, its a great buy. Watch out for money-pits though - big money stuff that can cause a hefty bill, such as:-
Clutch and DMF
Turbo
Swirl flap ingestion
Suspension
I'd have another if I was looking for stylish bangernomics
Cheers fellas, what is it that tends to see the suspension off? Just weak components? I'll look into the aftermarket solutions a bit more 
Little niggles like bulbs etc won't be bothering me in the slightest, the appeal of the car for me lies in how stylish and sumptuous it is for close to shed money, I'm certainly not intending to run a concours car and I can put up with imperfections.
I'll dive back into Google and do as much reading as I can on the JTDM, I'm not too clever with Diesel engines so I'm sure a learning curve is in store. With any luck I may be reappearing on this section of PH in the near future, really appreciate the insight and hopefully it'll sort me out with finding a good'un
Little niggles like bulbs etc won't be bothering me in the slightest, the appeal of the car for me lies in how stylish and sumptuous it is for close to shed money, I'm certainly not intending to run a concours car and I can put up with imperfections.
I'll dive back into Google and do as much reading as I can on the JTDM, I'm not too clever with Diesel engines so I'm sure a learning curve is in store. With any luck I may be reappearing on this section of PH in the near future, really appreciate the insight and hopefully it'll sort me out with finding a good'un
Suspension just relies on bits of rubber that are too small for the loads that are put on them. This is compounded by pattern parts being a bit weak.
Upper wishbones - if you live in speed bump hell, or down a bumpy country lane, the bushes are almost a consumable. I can change them in 20 minutes a side now. The cure is to poly the two rubber bits.
Lower wishbones - longer lasting, but by 60 - 80K they're toast. Harder to replace, about an hour a side.
Drop links - every 40K
ARB bushes - a £5 part but you've got to drop the subframe to get them replaced. Every 100K
At the back:
Rear transverse arms - every 24K. Cheap though and easy to replace. For some reason, the fronts are fine...
Hub bush - every 60K or so. Cheap part, utter pain to press out. Replace with poly
Trailing arms - every 80K, very easy job.
The rear shock turrets corrode and drop the spring on the tyre - any GT still running original shocks is on borrowed time.
Hence my general approach which is to use suspension as a price reduction point when buying, and plan to replace everything. I literally drop the rear subframe and toss all the moving parts in the bin. Much easier than doing it bit by bit.
Upper wishbones - if you live in speed bump hell, or down a bumpy country lane, the bushes are almost a consumable. I can change them in 20 minutes a side now. The cure is to poly the two rubber bits.
Lower wishbones - longer lasting, but by 60 - 80K they're toast. Harder to replace, about an hour a side.
Drop links - every 40K
ARB bushes - a £5 part but you've got to drop the subframe to get them replaced. Every 100K
At the back:
Rear transverse arms - every 24K. Cheap though and easy to replace. For some reason, the fronts are fine...
Hub bush - every 60K or so. Cheap part, utter pain to press out. Replace with poly
Trailing arms - every 80K, very easy job.
The rear shock turrets corrode and drop the spring on the tyre - any GT still running original shocks is on borrowed time.
Hence my general approach which is to use suspension as a price reduction point when buying, and plan to replace everything. I literally drop the rear subframe and toss all the moving parts in the bin. Much easier than doing it bit by bit.
Went to look at my first today. Pretty scruffy and neglected car from a small dealer, but advertised for just £1k. Moon mileage and no MOT, it hasn't moved for a long time and will need work to pass. I wouldn't touch it as it stands, but the dealer have said that they'll get it MOT'd next week so I can test drive it. I know it'll need new parts to legitimately pass so if I turn up next week and see lots of shiny bits it could start looking like a good punt. It started from a booster pack and from cold was surprisingly smooth and no smoke or smell from the exhaust. All electrics worked as they should and most of the cosmetic stuff would clean up (it didn't look as though the dealer had touched it)- the shedding hemisphere of my brain is starting to say that for £1k with a years MOT its worth the risk.
I'll keep looking though, I'm quite excited to visit the other end of the budget scale and see some really nice examples too. Could go either way- to shed or to cherish!
I'll keep looking though, I'm quite excited to visit the other end of the budget scale and see some really nice examples too. Could go either way- to shed or to cherish!
Edited by CanoeSniffer on Wednesday 13th September 19:56
A £1000 shed GT might not be a bad punt, as long as the MOT is kosher. If you can spanner yourself, it could be a bargain.
The only real horror stories are the engine and corrosion - those are the bits that are hard/expensive to fix, everything else is spannering, and good OE parts (TRW) aren't expensive. If the sills aren't rotten and the engine pulls well that's a good start. Check the position of the clutch pedal, if it is very high at engagement, the clutch hasn't got long to live. Stiff clutch is a different problem and can be fixed for about 10p + 20 minutes of your time.
Suspension clonks to be expected at this price.
Leather? Not that expensive to retrofit if it hasn't got it.
Edit: what's your definition of "space shuttle mileage" - anything up to 150k is fine. They do go on to 250K, with care and maintenance.
The only real horror stories are the engine and corrosion - those are the bits that are hard/expensive to fix, everything else is spannering, and good OE parts (TRW) aren't expensive. If the sills aren't rotten and the engine pulls well that's a good start. Check the position of the clutch pedal, if it is very high at engagement, the clutch hasn't got long to live. Stiff clutch is a different problem and can be fixed for about 10p + 20 minutes of your time.
Suspension clonks to be expected at this price.
Leather? Not that expensive to retrofit if it hasn't got it.
Edit: what's your definition of "space shuttle mileage" - anything up to 150k is fine. They do go on to 250K, with care and maintenance.
Edited by rxe on Thursday 14th September 09:34
rxe said:
A £1000 shed GT might not be a bad punt, as long as the MOT is kosher. If you can spanner yourself, it could be a bargain.
Edit: what's your definition of "space shuttle mileage" - anything up to 150k is fine. They do go on to 250K, with care and maintenance.
That pretty much echoes my thinking. It's got full leather and the lovely Alfa multi spoke wheels (the name of which escapes me), it's really not a bad spec, just neglected. I'm not averse to spannering so it's an interesting proposition. This place was a little backstreet though so I'm half expecting to turn up next week and be handed a glittering MOT with no advisories, with the car still sat on the rotten tyres and brakes that I saw yesterday. If that's the case, I'm walking away. Mileage is just over 150k.Edit: what's your definition of "space shuttle mileage" - anything up to 150k is fine. They do go on to 250K, with care and maintenance.
Edited by rxe on Thursday 14th September 09:34
Think you need to take care when considering a £1000 Alfa. My rule of thumb is if a GT or a 156 is below £1500 it will come with some issues - whether it's suspension, engine or rust. The cheaper it is, the more issues there will be, unless you are very lucky.
By all means check the car over and be very thorough. Oh,and make sure your wallet is well topped up. It could end up a total money pit.
By all means check the car over and be very thorough. Oh,and make sure your wallet is well topped up. It could end up a total money pit.
One year on- what a great car.
Paid £1550 with 109k miles, now on 127k.
Needed wishbones for the MOT, apart from that it's needed no mechanicals. I've bought and fitted a new door handle hinge as the drivers side had snapped, nasty job but sorted for buttons and good as new. I was a bit pissed off to find in the service history an invoice for the same on the passenger side from a dealer a couple of years ago, this was fitted incorrectly and they creased the door skin slightly. If I could sort it for £10 with my 10mm spanner then I feel for the PO who parted with £50 to have a s
t job done.
Also fitted a new brake light switch which went on the blink then failed, again an easy fix with a cheap part. Well out of tolerance though which meant lights permanently on initially, switch appeared to be a sealed unit with no adjustment so I made up a spacer with a spare bit of rubber and adjusted it to about perfect- my bodge has held for 6 months now so maybe a permanent installation!
I installed an aftermarket head unit using a great guide from the Alfa forums to change the wiring config, also wired in a module to the steering wheel controls which works for volume but plays silly buggers with the skip functions- not too worried about that as I rarely need it, new head unit has USB/iPod connectivity and if I was constantly skipping my own music collection it would be a bit pointless having it!
Discovered post-purchase that the car has a piggyback ECU installed, I always thought those things were a load of bks but the difference in fuel consumption when I took it off was huge. MPG on a run with the 'box is ~60mpg at ~70mph, dropped to 52mpg average without. I did some number-crunching and the figures seem to be accurate which is unbelievable, I'm still open to the idea that the piggyback ECU is misinforming the trip computer somehow leading to such great figures- for example I took SWMBO to Paris via Eurotunnel and average figure for the entire trip was 63mpg which sounds too good to be true, though we covered >700 miles on one tank during that trip so who knows!
The piggyback ECU also appears to dump fuel at and approaching WOT resulting in a great big satisfying derv cloud, great for dealing with tailgaters but not so great for the MOT. Daft of me to put it in for test without removing the box first but it was interesting to note that the car produced next to zero smoke when re-tested without it, a big difference. The car definitely feels more punchy with the box too, I'm happy that it's not doing anything too nasty and those fuel figures are hard to argue with so on it stays (except for the MOT- must remember).
I love the interior and I think the seats were made to measure me, just sooooooo comfortable and they've held their miles really well. I do have a small frame though and bigger mates of mine haven't found them so comfortable, I guess the average Italian must be 5'6!
The interior looks great for its age, but the rubberised plastic door handles have had some funny reaction and have started to degrade which is a shame as it lets the rest of the interior down a bit, from what I gather they're a pig to replace though.
The exterior was okay when I got it, paintwork was and still is great but the panel fit is a little wonky. Unfortunately it only took a matter of months for careless inconsiderate wkers to cover it in a smattering of door dents. I always park defensively but sadly practicality doesn't allow for the daily driver to live its life in bubble wrap and the mouth breathers have got to my poor Alfa in several places. It infuriates me but then I do need to remind myself that it's only a cheap car, it's just hard not to be overly proud because it's so pretty!
I've self-serviced the car but unfortunately really struggle to get my jack underneath it, and after my last attempt started collapsing the sill against the arm of the jack (exactly what I knew NOT to do!
) I decided to give up and I get underneath it by driving it up onto bricks instead. 'Elf'n'safety not my forte... Damage to the sill not too bad, luckily I noticed before the jack had fully taken the weight of the car.
In terms of driving it does what it says on the tin- GT. It does handle nicely but in the company of my track-prepped TVR and mk1 MX-5 it was never going to feel like a precision tool- I prefer to sit on the motorway with the cruise on, sink into the leather and watch the miles disappear out the window!
All in all, I'm really happy with the GT. it's a fine car, and will hopefully stay in my company for many years to come. It perhaps doesn't get the attention it deserves in the company of the other two cars, but it's quite happy to do all the graft work when required and has been very economical and practical in doing so. I leave you with some gratuitous photographs including excerpts from my self-titled 'inappropriate loads for a 2-door Italian coupe' series
Paid £1550 with 109k miles, now on 127k.
Needed wishbones for the MOT, apart from that it's needed no mechanicals. I've bought and fitted a new door handle hinge as the drivers side had snapped, nasty job but sorted for buttons and good as new. I was a bit pissed off to find in the service history an invoice for the same on the passenger side from a dealer a couple of years ago, this was fitted incorrectly and they creased the door skin slightly. If I could sort it for £10 with my 10mm spanner then I feel for the PO who parted with £50 to have a s
t job done.Also fitted a new brake light switch which went on the blink then failed, again an easy fix with a cheap part. Well out of tolerance though which meant lights permanently on initially, switch appeared to be a sealed unit with no adjustment so I made up a spacer with a spare bit of rubber and adjusted it to about perfect- my bodge has held for 6 months now so maybe a permanent installation!
I installed an aftermarket head unit using a great guide from the Alfa forums to change the wiring config, also wired in a module to the steering wheel controls which works for volume but plays silly buggers with the skip functions- not too worried about that as I rarely need it, new head unit has USB/iPod connectivity and if I was constantly skipping my own music collection it would be a bit pointless having it!
Discovered post-purchase that the car has a piggyback ECU installed, I always thought those things were a load of b
ks but the difference in fuel consumption when I took it off was huge. MPG on a run with the 'box is ~60mpg at ~70mph, dropped to 52mpg average without. I did some number-crunching and the figures seem to be accurate which is unbelievable, I'm still open to the idea that the piggyback ECU is misinforming the trip computer somehow leading to such great figures- for example I took SWMBO to Paris via Eurotunnel and average figure for the entire trip was 63mpg which sounds too good to be true, though we covered >700 miles on one tank during that trip so who knows!The piggyback ECU also appears to dump fuel at and approaching WOT resulting in a great big satisfying derv cloud, great for dealing with tailgaters but not so great for the MOT. Daft of me to put it in for test without removing the box first but it was interesting to note that the car produced next to zero smoke when re-tested without it, a big difference. The car definitely feels more punchy with the box too, I'm happy that it's not doing anything too nasty and those fuel figures are hard to argue with so on it stays (except for the MOT- must remember).
I love the interior and I think the seats were made to measure me, just sooooooo comfortable and they've held their miles really well. I do have a small frame though and bigger mates of mine haven't found them so comfortable, I guess the average Italian must be 5'6!
The interior looks great for its age, but the rubberised plastic door handles have had some funny reaction and have started to degrade which is a shame as it lets the rest of the interior down a bit, from what I gather they're a pig to replace though.
The exterior was okay when I got it, paintwork was and still is great but the panel fit is a little wonky. Unfortunately it only took a matter of months for careless inconsiderate w
kers to cover it in a smattering of door dents. I always park defensively but sadly practicality doesn't allow for the daily driver to live its life in bubble wrap and the mouth breathers have got to my poor Alfa in several places. It infuriates me but then I do need to remind myself that it's only a cheap car, it's just hard not to be overly proud because it's so pretty!I've self-serviced the car but unfortunately really struggle to get my jack underneath it, and after my last attempt started collapsing the sill against the arm of the jack (exactly what I knew NOT to do!
) I decided to give up and I get underneath it by driving it up onto bricks instead. 'Elf'n'safety not my forte... Damage to the sill not too bad, luckily I noticed before the jack had fully taken the weight of the car.In terms of driving it does what it says on the tin- GT. It does handle nicely but in the company of my track-prepped TVR and mk1 MX-5 it was never going to feel like a precision tool- I prefer to sit on the motorway with the cruise on, sink into the leather and watch the miles disappear out the window!
All in all, I'm really happy with the GT. it's a fine car, and will hopefully stay in my company for many years to come. It perhaps doesn't get the attention it deserves in the company of the other two cars, but it's quite happy to do all the graft work when required and has been very economical and practical in doing so. I leave you with some gratuitous photographs including excerpts from my self-titled 'inappropriate loads for a 2-door Italian coupe' series
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