Built vs Bought
Discussion
I thought I would have a laugh today and visit my local Fiat dealership (again) to see how much a new top engine mount for my HGT would be.
£177.80 +VAT
They have to sell Renault and Dacia there as well so far as "sense of humor" goes I think it went when I told them the same part was £38 on eBay. While I was there I happened to notice the 695 Abarth has the 180 t-jet. I'm sure it won't be long before one of those is stacked backwards into a hedge and the engine liberated. Wooooo-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaaa!
Anyway while doing the chores I thought I would stop and stare...
£177.80 +VAT
They have to sell Renault and Dacia there as well so far as "sense of humor" goes I think it went when I told them the same part was £38 on eBay. While I was there I happened to notice the 695 Abarth has the 180 t-jet. I'm sure it won't be long before one of those is stacked backwards into a hedge and the engine liberated. Wooooo-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaaa!
Anyway while doing the chores I thought I would stop and stare...
With two weeks to go until the first track day of the season I took my Cinquecento to work as usual.
Bit of a fun commute. I managed to pull two much newer and expensive cars from the verges where they had lost control in the snow and a Land Rover Discovery out of a small ditch. With a small Fiat and a rescue rope.
As we know no good deed goes unpunnished so while I was in a shop getting my lunch. A Luton van reversed into the front of my car and drove off.
Bumper, headlights and passenger side indicator smashed. Passenger side wing, bonnet, slam panel, front valance and corner panel bent.
I already know UK headlights are impossible to buy new so insurers or the MIB will write the car off due to inavailability of parts. The lenses are smashed so I can't buy a pair of left hand drive ones and convert them. That's the major thing. I have a spare bumper and the rest should straighten out. It might not be that bad. She drove home okay. No overheating or tracking issues.
I like to think the best of people and hope the Luton driver didn't know he/she/it had hit anything. It wasn't driven off with any kind of gusto from the shops cctv. No view of the number plate or driver so it's a dead end. I got a Police incident number in case I was stopped on the way home.
Lucky it happened near a public bin so I could throw the glass away safely. I didn't want any to fall off the car causing a puncture or other damage to my or anyone else's car.
Car's don't need headlights for track days so it could turn out to be a handy few grams weigh saving.
Bit of a fun commute. I managed to pull two much newer and expensive cars from the verges where they had lost control in the snow and a Land Rover Discovery out of a small ditch. With a small Fiat and a rescue rope.
As we know no good deed goes unpunnished so while I was in a shop getting my lunch. A Luton van reversed into the front of my car and drove off.
Bumper, headlights and passenger side indicator smashed. Passenger side wing, bonnet, slam panel, front valance and corner panel bent.
I already know UK headlights are impossible to buy new so insurers or the MIB will write the car off due to inavailability of parts. The lenses are smashed so I can't buy a pair of left hand drive ones and convert them. That's the major thing. I have a spare bumper and the rest should straighten out. It might not be that bad. She drove home okay. No overheating or tracking issues.
I like to think the best of people and hope the Luton driver didn't know he/she/it had hit anything. It wasn't driven off with any kind of gusto from the shops cctv. No view of the number plate or driver so it's a dead end. I got a Police incident number in case I was stopped on the way home.
Lucky it happened near a public bin so I could throw the glass away safely. I didn't want any to fall off the car causing a puncture or other damage to my or anyone else's car.
Car's don't need headlights for track days so it could turn out to be a handy few grams weigh saving.
Okay I was getting annoyed and wanted to do something so I addressed a major issue with the car.
The lack of side light bulbs.
Now here's a top tip for anyone with a Mk2 or 2B Punto.
"Do not use side light bulbs in your side lights".
The holders aren't very tight on a good set and the vibration from the road/engine is enough to blow elements. The most I ever had to replace was six in three days. This I would guess is why people fit gash LED ones but I'm not a fan, white ones look blue to me, yellow are okay but not on a green car and any other colour is illegal.
I found out by accident that the auxiliary brake light on a Mitsubishi FTO uses these...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-921-High-Level-Bra...
921 bulbs instead of the standard 501's. They are cheaper, brighter and last a lot longer.
The lack of side light bulbs.
Now here's a top tip for anyone with a Mk2 or 2B Punto.
"Do not use side light bulbs in your side lights".
The holders aren't very tight on a good set and the vibration from the road/engine is enough to blow elements. The most I ever had to replace was six in three days. This I would guess is why people fit gash LED ones but I'm not a fan, white ones look blue to me, yellow are okay but not on a green car and any other colour is illegal.
I found out by accident that the auxiliary brake light on a Mitsubishi FTO uses these...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-921-High-Level-Bra...
921 bulbs instead of the standard 501's. They are cheaper, brighter and last a lot longer.
Just a formal declaration of how standard this HGT is...
Standard wheels, ride height (suspension), no strut brace, air filter or exhaust upgrades. Standard seats, stereo with dash mounted cd changer and very primitive sat' nav'.
Pretty clean, tidy example of a future classic Punto HGT in a nice colour.
There isn't much to do to be honest. Matching tyres would be nice, a new screen for the stereo, sloppy gear linkage and stuttering wipers. Little quirks more than anything.
Standard wheels, ride height (suspension), no strut brace, air filter or exhaust upgrades. Standard seats, stereo with dash mounted cd changer and very primitive sat' nav'.
Pretty clean, tidy example of a future classic Punto HGT in a nice colour.
There isn't much to do to be honest. Matching tyres would be nice, a new screen for the stereo, sloppy gear linkage and stuttering wipers. Little quirks more than anything.
Well...
...surprisingly well. The conditions were initially crap but that suited the HGT pretty well. Nimble, good tyres and enough power to put down without issues we found ourselves keeping up with and pestering better focused stuff on track.
I don't know about times as yet (I thought it would be a good idea to film five minutes at a time instead of three so there would be less cut lines in the final clip but transferring from VLC to MP4 via Race Render is taking hours.
I had fun, we raised £2,500 for Macmillan Cancer Support and the HGT certainly has potential. Not much room for improvement without doing something drastic about the engine management.
The gearbox got noisier throughout the day and the exhaust split on a speed ramp when I got my lunch but mechanically was well as well as could be expected.
...surprisingly well. The conditions were initially crap but that suited the HGT pretty well. Nimble, good tyres and enough power to put down without issues we found ourselves keeping up with and pestering better focused stuff on track.
I don't know about times as yet (I thought it would be a good idea to film five minutes at a time instead of three so there would be less cut lines in the final clip but transferring from VLC to MP4 via Race Render is taking hours.
I had fun, we raised £2,500 for Macmillan Cancer Support and the HGT certainly has potential. Not much room for improvement without doing something drastic about the engine management.
The gearbox got noisier throughout the day and the exhaust split on a speed ramp when I got my lunch but mechanically was well as well as could be expected.
Back to life. Back to reality.
The reality for me is to get to Blyton Park and back I have driven on the A17
This time of year that road is either being dug up for no apparent reason, covered a freshly ploughed mud or both.
Back to normal with a little help from the local car wash (I could not be arsed to faff about washing my car in the snowfall again).
I have topped the gearbox oil up and even though I can not replicate the conditions on track I can confirm she's a lot quieter.
Best case scenario the top up has worked and I'll do a full change in a couple of hundred miles to see how much damage is done. Worst case I need a new gearbox, but so long as Punto HGT ones are holding a premium the Alfa lineage of the engine block should mean I can use a 145, 146, 147, 155, 156, 166 one if needs be.
The reality for me is to get to Blyton Park and back I have driven on the A17
This time of year that road is either being dug up for no apparent reason, covered a freshly ploughed mud or both.
Back to normal with a little help from the local car wash (I could not be arsed to faff about washing my car in the snowfall again).
I have topped the gearbox oil up and even though I can not replicate the conditions on track I can confirm she's a lot quieter.
Best case scenario the top up has worked and I'll do a full change in a couple of hundred miles to see how much damage is done. Worst case I need a new gearbox, but so long as Punto HGT ones are holding a premium the Alfa lineage of the engine block should mean I can use a 145, 146, 147, 155, 156, 166 one if needs be.
During the track day my exhaust split where the cat' meets the front box. I tack welded and puttied it well enough to get home but it needed doing properly so...
...get the car up on ramps, lift one wheel with the jack, turn the ramp a hundred and eighty degrees and drop it back down.
With the ramps acting as chocks and the car in gear it's safe(ish) to lift the back of the car and take the exhaust off.
It was a bit dark by the time I was finished so I embraced 1998 and used some under-car neon lights (well the florescent tubes from my shed at least).
The reason why the exhaust had split in the first place is rather odd. The rear section is standard HGT and the flexipipe looks to be normal as well but the cat' is poorly welded to the down pipe, has bends where it shouldn't that have been cut and welded straighter; but it's about half in inch too short so the whole system is under tension from the rubbers. This could been what was making the noise when I down shifted on track as the engine and gearbox moved in their mounts putting the exhaust under more tension transmitting vibration to the floor.
I may have to experiment with the Bravo cat' and system in my shed.
...get the car up on ramps, lift one wheel with the jack, turn the ramp a hundred and eighty degrees and drop it back down.
With the ramps acting as chocks and the car in gear it's safe(ish) to lift the back of the car and take the exhaust off.
It was a bit dark by the time I was finished so I embraced 1998 and used some under-car neon lights (well the florescent tubes from my shed at least).
The reason why the exhaust had split in the first place is rather odd. The rear section is standard HGT and the flexipipe looks to be normal as well but the cat' is poorly welded to the down pipe, has bends where it shouldn't that have been cut and welded straighter; but it's about half in inch too short so the whole system is under tension from the rubbers. This could been what was making the noise when I down shifted on track as the engine and gearbox moved in their mounts putting the exhaust under more tension transmitting vibration to the floor.
I may have to experiment with the Bravo cat' and system in my shed.
Due to a dramatic change of circumstances I had to sell the Punto and haven't had time, money or inclination to get a car ready for the second track day in the #FCTDC season.
So I took my 145
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/sets/72157...
Completely, totally and utterly standard apart from part worn Michelin Pilot Sport 3's from a Ginetta Junior race car.
Early report my Alfa was a quick as the Punto at trap points by the end of the day. A tad sluggish to start with and she is notably "perkier" than before. So as well as a raising money for charity, getting together with a bunch of mates and having a ball on track I've given my car a Carbon clean as well.
So I took my 145
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/sets/72157...
Completely, totally and utterly standard apart from part worn Michelin Pilot Sport 3's from a Ginetta Junior race car.
Early report my Alfa was a quick as the Punto at trap points by the end of the day. A tad sluggish to start with and she is notably "perkier" than before. So as well as a raising money for charity, getting together with a bunch of mates and having a ball on track I've given my car a Carbon clean as well.
One mechanical issue. Later in the day and on my drive home my gear selector got really stiff. So much so I basically didn't have 2nd and 4th gears.
This morning I found this...
...chunk of plastic trim wedged in the linkage. Quick fix but an hour to get the battery, fuse box, tray, loom and bits of pipe out of the way enough to get to it.
Find out more about our charity track days here...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/561769647533221/
This morning I found this...
...chunk of plastic trim wedged in the linkage. Quick fix but an hour to get the battery, fuse box, tray, loom and bits of pipe out of the way enough to get to it.
Find out more about our charity track days here...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/561769647533221/
So the results are in. Even though I wasn't going full on my 145 and I did a pretty respectable 1:26.23...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG-d5PghTBM&t
...photos are here...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/sets/72157...
Time to update my Blyton board...
Modified Bravo HLX - 1:24.8 (dry and sunny)
Standard Alfa 145 Cloverleaf with sticky tyres and stuff removed from the boot and door cards - 1:26.23 (dry and sunny)
Standard Punto HGT with Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres - 1:29.6 (damp-ish dank and cool)
Standard Bravo HLX with Toyo T1R tyres and EBC brake pads - 1:41.3 (dry and sunny)
Trap speeds at the end of the straight.
Alfa 145 Cloverleaf - 84mph (camera 91mph indicated)
Modified Fiat Bravo - 83mph (camera 90mph indicated)
Fiat Punto HGT - 82mph (camera 85 indicated)
Standard Fiat Punto HLX - 81mph (camera 85mph indicated)
It's not going to take much for the 145 to beat the Bravo but who knows what direction I'll have to take next?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG-d5PghTBM&t
...photos are here...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankhall/sets/72157...
Time to update my Blyton board...
Modified Bravo HLX - 1:24.8 (dry and sunny)
Standard Alfa 145 Cloverleaf with sticky tyres and stuff removed from the boot and door cards - 1:26.23 (dry and sunny)
Standard Punto HGT with Uniroyal Rainsport 3 tyres - 1:29.6 (damp-ish dank and cool)
Standard Bravo HLX with Toyo T1R tyres and EBC brake pads - 1:41.3 (dry and sunny)
Trap speeds at the end of the straight.
Alfa 145 Cloverleaf - 84mph (camera 91mph indicated)
Modified Fiat Bravo - 83mph (camera 90mph indicated)
Fiat Punto HGT - 82mph (camera 85 indicated)
Standard Fiat Punto HLX - 81mph (camera 85mph indicated)
It's not going to take much for the 145 to beat the Bravo but who knows what direction I'll have to take next?
Vitorio said:
Excellent times!
Fettling the 145 a bit will easily see it beat the bravo would be my guess, not sure how rigorous the weight savings program has been so far? Next step should probably be stripping more weight, fancy brake pads and some suspension upgrades, getting more power out of that twinny will take new cams and a remap, which will cost a lot more.
Im impressed to see it beat the Punto HGT that easily though, the power/weight on an HGT is quite decent with 133hp in a punto, while the 145 isnt exactly a light car.
I am so proud of my Alfa. She has done some incredible things the last month to six weeks. Got me to hospital in time (53 miles in 32 minutes without breaking an 20,30, 40 or 50mph limits) to say goodbye to my father. Lead car at his funeral procession and now this. Incredible. Fettling the 145 a bit will easily see it beat the bravo would be my guess, not sure how rigorous the weight savings program has been so far? Next step should probably be stripping more weight, fancy brake pads and some suspension upgrades, getting more power out of that twinny will take new cams and a remap, which will cost a lot more.
Im impressed to see it beat the Punto HGT that easily though, the power/weight on an HGT is quite decent with 133hp in a punto, while the 145 isnt exactly a light car.
Not to mention the van load of stuff she took without hesitation, averaging 45mpg, driving seven hundred miles so comfortably I flt like I had only been to the shops and back.
I don't really need to do anything to make the 145 quicker than the Bravo. Just drive with less mechanical sympathy and hope she takes it.
I was holding back in a endurance race kind of mode, early progressive braking and easy on the (never full) throttle to make sure she would get me home.
Tuning the Twinspark will be similar to the Bravo (I have most of the Bravo bits in the shed), filter, exhaust, springs and weight reduction.
The AC pump leaks so it's a matter of finding a shorter belt and deleting that.
While I'm at it I could find a balance shaft removal kit as it's weight and mechanical drag that gave the Twinspark its unique sound but at the same time restricted output.
Also there's the JTD manifold to make a Twinspark Turbo area to explore.
Vitorio said:
Sounds like a very good car, i hope itll last you a good while longer (and sorry to hear about your dad, my condolences)
If you ever get into newer metal, id suggest you give the 147 a try as well, front double wishbone suspension, and im quite impressed with how my boggo spec 147 handles itself through a corner.
I do like the 147 but the car felt heavy in comparison to my 145If you ever get into newer metal, id suggest you give the 147 a try as well, front double wishbone suspension, and im quite impressed with how my boggo spec 147 handles itself through a corner.
All that Lusso stuff is ballast.
Vitorio said:
True, the 147 isnt a light car (but lets be honest, a 145 isnt a featherweight either, the boxers which were ansolutely fine in the 33 kind of suffered in the 145), but some weight savings can fix that (to some degree :P)
Its a shame there never was a 147 QV, the 2.0 is just a tad light for such a badge, and the GTA is a whole new world, if only they'd done a 2.5 V6 version...
Agreed. Its a shame there never was a 147 QV, the 2.0 is just a tad light for such a badge, and the GTA is a whole new world, if only they'd done a 2.5 V6 version...
The 145 V6 on this thread looks really good.
The 145 and 147 weigh roughly the same but the 147 is so much higher...
...it would lean over even more being top heavy.
My springs must be saggy as I parked next to a 147 and it was a Range Rover-esque two inches higher.
In reply to your other comment...
...this...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Stilo-2-4-Abarth-2...
...has been on my watch list as an alternative to messing about with my 145 for a while now.
I wouldn't mind getting a Stilo SW and swapping the Abarth engine and bits over. They are a tad nose heavy and the longer wheelbase could compensate for that.
In reply to your other comment...
...this...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Stilo-2-4-Abarth-2...
...has been on my watch list as an alternative to messing about with my 145 for a while now.
I wouldn't mind getting a Stilo SW and swapping the Abarth engine and bits over. They are a tad nose heavy and the longer wheelbase could compensate for that.
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