4C - Where are we with prices right now?

4C - Where are we with prices right now?

Author
Discussion

Lord Marylebone

Original Poster:

8,838 posts

128 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
Hi all,

Never owned an Alfa before, but really fancy a 4C.

Sold a couple of other cars recently so there is space in the garage.

But... I generally only buy sportscars that have either bottomed out in price or are creeping up.

Done really well on a couple of classic Porsches, and an Aston over the last few years, so don't really want spoil my good run by buying something that's going to plummet.

I've seen a few 4C's now for around the £30k mark. Is this it now? As low as they will go?

Can't ever see them being a £15k car. Surely too special for that?

Any thoughts?

flight147z

543 posts

77 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
I'm hoping that they keep going down so I can buy one.

Appears to be a £5k+ premium for the Spider at the moment.

I haven't seen any at £30k. There is one on AT for £33k, the second cheapest is £36k. The cheapest Spider is £40k

Stuart J

1,237 posts

205 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
If you see one for 30k count the number of wheels , if it’s got 4 buy it

MattyB_

1,794 posts

205 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all

I've been keeping a close eye on the market - sales are glacial, cars are hanging around for ages.

I think - eventually - they'll start to appreciate. For now, I suspect you'll find that £30k is the cutoff point, I really can't see them dropping much below that unless they're writeoffs or mega miles.

I'm interested to see how the white £33k car sells at Alexander. It's a good spec, but not a desirable colour in white and is "high" miles at 16k. The LE cars are the hot property for collectors so if you buy one of those I think they'll do well in the long term. Otherwise, it seems the most popular is the Rosso Tri-colour red with the 18/19's classic pepper-pot style a few options ticked like carbon Bi-LED light and other options.

Ultimately, I suspect depreciation will be very slow for the next few years (especially as they're apparently continuing production for another year?) before they start to climb. Over the next 5+ years I can see these being properly collectable, they seem to tick all the right boxes to be a future classic.

flight147z

543 posts

77 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
MattyB_ said:
I've been keeping a close eye on the market - sales are glacial, cars are hanging around for ages.

I think - eventually - they'll start to appreciate. For now, I suspect you'll find that £30k is the cutoff point, I really can't see them dropping much below that unless they're writeoffs or mega miles.

I'm interested to see how the white £33k car sells at Alexander. It's a good spec, but not a desirable colour in white and is "high" miles at 16k. The LE cars are the hot property for collectors so if you buy one of those I think they'll do well in the long term. Otherwise, it seems the most popular is the Rosso Tri-colour red with the 18/19's classic pepper-pot style a few options ticked like carbon Bi-LED light and other options.

Ultimately, I suspect depreciation will be very slow for the next few years (especially as they're apparently continuing production for another year?) before they start to climb. Over the next 5+ years I can see these being properly collectable, they seem to tick all the right boxes to be a future classic.
As you've been keeping an eye on them I'm interested to know what they were going for in the past - what was the bottom end a year ago or two years ago?

Stuart J

1,237 posts

205 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
Are you buying to collect or to drive, I had a 2014 one and now a 2017 one, later car was definitely better , also don’t be scared of the miles if you intend to use it, I did 16k in the first and 12 in this one in a year and no issues at all, if buying make sure they have a full service history , they are expensive to service and even if low miles they mustn’t have missed proper services as some elements are time critical, not miles critical

Lord Marylebone

Original Poster:

8,838 posts

128 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
Stuart J said:
Are you buying to collect or to drive, I had a 2014 one and now a 2017 one, later car was definitely better , also don’t be scared of the miles if you intend to use it, I did 16k in the first and 12 in this one in a year and no issues at all, if buying make sure they have a full service history , they are expensive to service and even if low miles they mustn’t have missed proper services as some elements are time critical, not miles critical
I don't collect, I buy to drive and enjoy but probably only to do about 2000 miles a year in, just because I have other things to drive as well, plus busy at work etc etc

I just like to try to buy things at the right time depreciation-wise.

I always say that a car doesn't cost you the purchase price, it costs you in deprecation.

I never buy cars that are on the way down if I can help it, but I'll happily buy a £100k car if I know it'll stay £100k or end up at £120k.

I could live with buying a 4C at say 35k and bailing out at 30k a couple of years later, but I would be feeing quite upset if I had to sell one at £20k.

Like I said, never owned an Alfa before, but the 4C is just something I keep looking at again and again.

Edited by Lord Marylebone on Sunday 1st July 21:51

MattyB_

1,794 posts

205 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
flight147z said:
As you've been keeping an eye on them I'm interested to know what they were going for in the past - what was the bottom end a year ago or two years ago?
I'm afraid I wasn't keeping an eye that far back! Only the last 6 months really. Prices have barely changes, but may cars are sticking and have been for sale for a while.

Prices are all over the place too, it seems that many dealers don't know how to price them. I've not seen any reduced, the white one at Alexanders is the first one I've noticed. However, I've also noticed the Thames (Kent) have increased the price of one of theirs by £1000, despite being for sale for 18mths already (looks like they serviced it and refurbed the wheels)

I do wonder if dealers are now going to "hold" on prices, based on the fact that there's no more supply and they can see the prices bottoming out.

Armitage.Shanks

747 posts

33 months

Sunday 1st July 2018
quotequote all
Alexanders is the cheapest I've seen at £33k. It's a 2014 in white which you like or you don't but it's been tarred with high mileage at 16k when most others have sub 5k on them given they seem to be used as 3rd cars.

Judging by the way they are driven in the US mileage is not an issue - many there over 20k miles it's all about condition and wear/tear inside given the carbon sills are easy to scratch. Also the alcantara can take a hammering as you effectively have to sit down and then swivel into position. Leather seats are better IMHO despite being cheaper than the alcantara.

Not sure about the Launch Edition cars being worth more as that's not been reflected in recent sales - Modena Meriden recently sold an LE at the similar price to other coupes. Plus they're early cars and the more recent ones seem to drive better.

I don't think they'll do a lot in depreciation, but they are a niche market, they were poorly marketed by Alfa (relying more on free publicity through press cars which to a degree backfired over 'steering gate') and 'supported' (in the loosest sense) by Fiat dealerships that can churn out family cars day in day out but don't really understand 4C buyers who are familiar with excellent main dealer support and customer service (Porsche this is where you win hands down).

If you look hard you can find faults with a 4C in terms of fit/finish but the experience goes beyond that in the way they drive and despite little sound insulation and carpet mine is completely rattle/squeak free and very sure footed. What remains is that few people seem to know what they are.

Lord Marylebone

Original Poster:

8,838 posts

128 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
Thanks all.

To be honest, I'm not worried about fit and finish issues.

I saw the photos of the inside of a 4C and realised that it was basically the dashboard, steering wheel, door cards and switchgear out of my Citroen Nemo van... for real.

I'm fully expecting it to be built to a budget, by Italians.

Terrifying rofl

But as long as there isn't any major and costly problems/horror stories then it be fine.

MattyB_

1,794 posts

205 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
Armitage.Shanks said:
Alexanders is the cheapest I've seen at £33k. It's a 2014 in white which you like or you don't but it's been tarred with high mileage at 16k when most others have sub 5k on them given they seem to be used as 3rd cars.

Judging by the way they are driven in the US mileage is not an issue - many there over 20k miles it's all about condition and wear/tear inside given the carbon sills are easy to scratch. Also the alcantara can take a hammering as you effectively have to sit down and then swivel into position. Leather seats are better IMHO despite being cheaper than the alcantara.

Not sure about the Launch Edition cars being worth more as that's not been reflected in recent sales - Modena Meriden recently sold an LE at the similar price to other coupes. Plus they're early cars and the more recent ones seem to drive better.
I don't think they "wear" too well if what I've been told is true based on viewings on the AlfaOwner forum. I suspect the cheaper materials don't help in that regard.

I only say that about the LE cars because they're the only ones that don't hang about. I've seen 4 for sale in the last few months, and 3 of them have sold pretty much as soon as they've gone online, even a £40k one with 12k miles at Arnold Clarke (or some similar big franchise). The only one remaining is the one for £50k, and I think that's just a bit too pricey even for an LE.

The one that's caught my eye is the one at Think Cars. Granted, it's got the smaller wheels, but I rather like them and it'll drive much better on them - otherwise, the spec is great, and it's a later 2016 car. I'm very, very tempted.

PenelopaPitstop

1,341 posts

81 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
There were couple of leasing promos last year, so you can expect a few cars showing up for sale next year. I don't know how many were leased, but they can "flood" the market if all of them come up around the same time. Saw it with Audi S8 last year, when around 50 cars showed up on used market suddenly. I know Alfa is not Audi but prices can dive for a bit due to number of available cars.

rudester

341 posts

100 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
MattyB_ said:
I'm afraid I wasn't keeping an eye that far back! Only the last 6 months really. Prices have barely changes, but may cars are sticking and have been for sale for a while.


I do wonder if dealers are now going to "hold" on prices, based on the fact that there's no more supply and they can see the prices bottoming out.
I think the lack of movement is due to the dealers dumping new and nearly new stock at near to used money throughout most of last year. I bought mine as an ex fiat car with 1600 1 year old with a 20k discount.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the second point, certainly the coupe is no longer in production and there seems to be some uncertantly still around the spider so the only option now is 2nd hand...

rudester

341 posts

100 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
MattyB_ said:
The one that's caught my eye is the one at Think Cars. Granted, it's got the smaller wheels, but I rather like them and it'll drive much better on them - otherwise, the spec is great, and it's a later 2016 car. I'm very, very tempted.
Looks great value and in the best colour too!!

Armitage.Shanks

747 posts

33 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
Most will have the Race Exhaust which is OK if you can live with the drone. Fortunately mines shifted to +80mph but I'd not rule out a standard system and then going for other afterfit options.

How they wear depends on what preventative work you do beforehand like putting PPF on the inner door sills etc. You'll probably need to address the outer sill PPF as it has been fitted by Roy Orbison at the factory and is a known warranty issue to address.

Lord Marylebone

Original Poster:

8,838 posts

128 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
Armitage.Shanks said:
Most will have the Race Exhaust which is OK if you can live with the drone. Fortunately mines shifted to +80mph but I'd not rule out a standard system and then going for other afterfit options.

How they wear depends on what preventative work you do beforehand like putting PPF on the inner door sills etc. You'll probably need to address the outer sill PPF as it has been fitted by Roy Orbison at the factory and is a known warranty issue to address.
That's quite amusing, because I've never even seen a 4C in real life, but as soon as saw some photos I thought "As soon as I get one I'll have to get some PPF put on those sills".

omniflow

827 posts

99 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
I've been watching the market for Spiders for the past 7 months.

The first thing has already been said - these cars don't sell quickly - they hang around for months.

There seems to be no logic in how they are priced - an Alfa dealer recently put one on Autotrader for north of £50K, when other similar cars were closer to £42K. I am sure spec comes into it, but again there's very little logic in that. I would not want a car without the leather dash, but some of the more expensive cars don't have this. Wheels can be changed, as can exhausts, but swapping out the dash would be a challenge.

The other thing that's already been mentioned is the impact of the leasing deals. I'm pretty sure that a significant percentage of the 4C spiders out there are on a 2 year lease deal (mine definitely is), and they will all come to an end around May / June 2019.

Stuart J

1,237 posts

205 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
I believe a lot on the cheap lease deals were basic basic spec so will be cheaper , at the end including lease cars there aren’t actually that many in the uk so I can’t see prices plummeting , the only thing that will hit prices badly will be a change in the economy and then yes prices will drop but you will be grateful you have a 4c and not a McLaren where the hit will be huge

Best thing for those not sure is to go and drive one , if you get what it’s about and feel what the car does then you will want one , if your looking for heated seats and 16 speaker sound systems it’s not for you

Armitage.Shanks

747 posts

33 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
Leather dash essential then think about adding some in to complement it. They should have used leather doorcards like they did in the US.

The best Spider I've seen is the black one London Morgan are selling. Low miles, extra carbon to roof hoop and all the right extras (not there are many to tick). Good price IMHO.

I'd be careful of ex-lease deal cars having base spec - the cloth seat option is shiote

Lord Marylebone

Original Poster:

8,838 posts

128 months

Monday 2nd July 2018
quotequote all
Stuart J said:
Best thing for those not sure is to go and drive one , if you get what it’s about and feel what the car does then you will want one , if your looking for heated seats and 16 speaker sound systems it’s not for you
Believe it or not, I almost never test drive anything before I buy it.

I don't see the point really... It is what it is, it will either be really good, or have 'character'.

I've owned and therefore driven heaps of stuff such as classic Porsches, stuff from the 60's, Astons, Hot hatches, Pickup trucks, modern stuff... you name it.

As long as it looks cool (It does) and makes loud noises (I will make it louder if it isn't already) then I will probably be very pleased with it as a new toy.

First Alfa ever though... Apparently everyone has to have an Alfa at some point??