Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio... reliability
Discussion
rob4620 said:
Well here’s my experience so far...
After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Epitomises the Alfa experience.After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Awesome cars. Utterly s
te dealers.My QV is the best car I've ever owned. Never have I had a car that after 3yrs still gives me excitement to drive it. But I won't have another purely down to the dealers.
rob4620 said:
Well here’s my experience so far...
After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
I'm sure it will be sorted, and it is worth it, best car I've ever owned. My dealer has also been spot on.After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
rob4620 said:
Well here’s my experience so far...
After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Hmmmmm, I smell a rat. Are you sure they didn't bin it on the PDI test drive? I know that happened to someone on the AlfaOwner forum and the dealer tried to hide it while fixing the car!After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Ares said:
rob4620 said:
Well here’s my experience so far...
After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Epitomises the Alfa experience.After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Awesome cars. Utterly s
te dealers.My QV is the best car I've ever owned. Never have I had a car that after 3yrs still gives me excitement to drive it. But I won't have another purely down to the dealers.
If you love your car, and it’s been reliable, why don’t you just keep it? (I am assuming you may have a lease that is up and would have to buy it)
If you just go and lease something else new (If it a similar car from another manufacturer) sounds like you will be disappointed with it compared to the QV.
ITP said:
Ares said:
rob4620 said:
Well here’s my experience so far...
After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Epitomises the Alfa experience.After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Awesome cars. Utterly s
te dealers.My QV is the best car I've ever owned. Never have I had a car that after 3yrs still gives me excitement to drive it. But I won't have another purely down to the dealers.
If you love your car, and it’s been reliable, why don’t you just keep it? (I am assuming you may have a lease that is up and would have to buy it)
If you just go and lease something else new (If it a similar car from another manufacturer) sounds like you will be disappointed with it compared to the QV.
rob4620 said:
BlackPorker said:
rob4620 said:
Well here’s my experience so far...
After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Hmmmmm, I smell a rat. Are you sure they didn't bin it on the PDI test drive? I know that happened to someone on the AlfaOwner forum and the dealer tried to hide it while fixing the car!After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
rob4620 said:
BlackPorker said:
rob4620 said:
Well here’s my experience so far...
After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Hmmmmm, I smell a rat. Are you sure they didn't bin it on the PDI test drive? I know that happened to someone on the AlfaOwner forum and the dealer tried to hide it while fixing the car!After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Ares said:
rob4620 said:
BlackPorker said:
rob4620 said:
Well here’s my experience so far...
After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Hmmmmm, I smell a rat. Are you sure they didn't bin it on the PDI test drive? I know that happened to someone on the AlfaOwner forum and the dealer tried to hide it while fixing the car!After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Ares said:
ITP said:
Ares said:
rob4620 said:
Well here’s my experience so far...
After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Epitomises the Alfa experience.After much research I jumped from a Porsche cayenne S to a brand new quadrifoglio last week, collection arranged for Monday just gone. On my way to collect the car I received a call from the dealership saying there had been a recall due to a water pump issue and they could not let the car leave the showroom.
After getting significantly upset with them on arrival, they advised the part would be expressed next day, it was a 5 hour job to fit, to which they had already started, so collection yesterday afternoon. After being completely ignored by the dealership on when it was ready to collect I finally got a response this morning saying there were further issues with the car and the replacement parts were only in Italy so at least another 10 days before the car ‘might’ be ready to collect.
Bearing in mind this was an unregistered car with little to no miles on the clock, to say my experience so far has been concerning is a significant understatement. Despite the money being paid over, finance agreed, trade in done etc. I’m one more poor response from the dealer from heading over to the German dealerships for an M3, C63, RS4 tomorrow.
So far not so good.
Awesome cars. Utterly s
te dealers.My QV is the best car I've ever owned. Never have I had a car that after 3yrs still gives me excitement to drive it. But I won't have another purely down to the dealers.
If you love your car, and it’s been reliable, why don’t you just keep it? (I am assuming you may have a lease that is up and would have to buy it)
If you just go and lease something else new (If it a similar car from another manufacturer) sounds like you will be disappointed with it compared to the QV.
I’ve never had a car newer than 3 years old!
Think I’ve only ever broken down about 5 times in 35 years and about 25 cars. Maybe I’ve been lucky.
Currently I choose from a 9 year old Alfa, a 16 year old Alfa (a GTA) and a 9 year old Maserati.
I suppose the perceived risk factor of that lot would totally freak out most modern car buyers who probably think I’m nuts!
Ares said:
It's leased, which aside from being difficult to buy at the end of, I prefer trouble free motoring for my main car. Never keep a car past 4yrs old, usually 3.
Sorry a bit off topic but like the above poster I find this bonkers, my choices on the drive are two 12 year olds and an 18 year old, very strange statement to make IMHO.ninepoint2 said:
Ares said:
It's leased, which aside from being difficult to buy at the end of, I prefer trouble free motoring for my main car. Never keep a car past 4yrs old, usually 3.
Sorry a bit off topic but like the above poster I find this bonkers, my choices on the drive are two 12 year olds and an 18 year old, very strange statement to make IMHO.I have no problem with anyone wanting a new car every 3 years if that’s what they want, and can afford it. Everyone can spend their money how they like for me. Hell, someone has to get new ones to give a supply of secondhand ones later!
What I don’t agree with however is the statement that cars somehow become ‘trouble’, as in not ‘trouble free’ after just 3 years and 24k miles, or whatever the lease mileage allowance is. This being the reason for changing, rather than just fancying a change, or being set in the leasing cycle. Both these reasons are fine. But modern cars do not fall apart at this age. Old escorts and cavaliers didn’t even fall apart at that age, modern cars are barely run in!
I will admit, on recent cars, the amount of electronics/sensors etc can be a concern but you would have to be unlucky and modern mechanicals are generally solid these days and have been for a long time.
Maybe ares does 40k miles a year though and gives his cars a hard time!
ninepoint2 said:
Ares said:
It's leased, which aside from being difficult to buy at the end of, I prefer trouble free motoring for my main car. Never keep a car past 4yrs old, usually 3.
Sorry a bit off topic but like the above poster I find this bonkers, my choices on the drive are two 12 year olds and an 18 year old, very strange statement to make IMHO.ITP said:
ninepoint2 said:
Ares said:
It's leased, which aside from being difficult to buy at the end of, I prefer trouble free motoring for my main car. Never keep a car past 4yrs old, usually 3.
Sorry a bit off topic but like the above poster I find this bonkers, my choices on the drive are two 12 year olds and an 18 year old, very strange statement to make IMHO.I have no problem with anyone wanting a new car every 3 years if that’s what they want, and can afford it. Everyone can spend their money how they like for me. Hell, someone has to get new ones to give a supply of secondhand ones later!
What I don’t agree with however is the statement that cars somehow become ‘trouble’, as in not ‘trouble free’ after just 3 years and 24k miles, or whatever the lease mileage allowance is. This being the reason for changing, rather than just fancying a change, or being set in the leasing cycle. Both these reasons are fine. But modern cars do not fall apart at this age. Old escorts and cavaliers didn’t even fall apart at that age, modern cars are barely run in!
I will admit, on recent cars, the amount of electronics/sensors etc can be a concern but you would have to be unlucky and modern mechanicals are generally solid these days and have been for a long time.
Maybe ares does 40k miles a year though and gives his cars a hard time!
Ares said:
Epitomises the Alfa experience.
Awesome cars. Utterly ste dealers.
My QV is the best car I've ever owned. Never have I had a car that after 3yrs still gives me excitement to drive it. But I won't have another purely down to the dealers.
Have you considered changing dealers? My Alfa dealer is excellent, I'm on my fourth car from them. Service is faultless as have been the cars (apart from the Saab). Awesome cars. Utterly s
te dealers.My QV is the best car I've ever owned. Never have I had a car that after 3yrs still gives me excitement to drive it. But I won't have another purely down to the dealers.
Whereas we have been completely disappointed with Jaguar dealers as MrsTheWife has one of those and the dealer is abysmal (no other non-Pendragon Jag dealer within 100 miles).
chopper602 said:
Ares said:
Epitomises the Alfa experience.
Awesome cars. Utterly ste dealers.
My QV is the best car I've ever owned. Never have I had a car that after 3yrs still gives me excitement to drive it. But I won't have another purely down to the dealers.
Have you considered changing dealers? My Alfa dealer is excellent, I'm on my fourth car from them. Service is faultless as have been the cars (apart from the Saab). Awesome cars. Utterly s
te dealers.My QV is the best car I've ever owned. Never have I had a car that after 3yrs still gives me excitement to drive it. But I won't have another purely down to the dealers.
Whereas we have been completely disappointed with Jaguar dealers as MrsTheWife has one of those and the dealer is abysmal (no other non-Pendragon Jag dealer within 100 miles).
t.Local dealer tried to defraud me out of £5,000
Next local dealer lost its franchise.
Next local dealer lost its franchise.
Next local dealer has a dire reputation, but it's my only way of avoiding a 2hr drive (each way) just to get there.
So yes
Ares said:
Supplying dealer got sold and went st.
Local dealer tried to defraud me out of £5,000
Next local dealer lost its franchise.
Next local dealer lost its franchise.
Next local dealer has a dire reputation, but it's my only way of avoiding a 2hr drive (each way) just to get there.
So yes
Alexanders Teesside BTWt.Local dealer tried to defraud me out of £5,000
Next local dealer lost its franchise.
Next local dealer lost its franchise.
Next local dealer has a dire reputation, but it's my only way of avoiding a 2hr drive (each way) just to get there.
So yes
Ares said:
chopper602 said:
Ares said:
Epitomises the Alfa experience.
Awesome cars. Utterly ste dealers.
My QV is the best car I've ever owned. Never have I had a car that after 3yrs still gives me excitement to drive it. But I won't have another purely down to the dealers.
Have you considered changing dealers? My Alfa dealer is excellent, I'm on my fourth car from them. Service is faultless as have been the cars (apart from the Saab). Awesome cars. Utterly s
te dealers.My QV is the best car I've ever owned. Never have I had a car that after 3yrs still gives me excitement to drive it. But I won't have another purely down to the dealers.
Whereas we have been completely disappointed with Jaguar dealers as MrsTheWife has one of those and the dealer is abysmal (no other non-Pendragon Jag dealer within 100 miles).
t.Local dealer tried to defraud me out of £5,000
Next local dealer lost its franchise.
Next local dealer lost its franchise.
Next local dealer has a dire reputation, but it's my only way of avoiding a 2hr drive (each way) just to get there.
So yes
Makes you wonder how many sales it costs because with the guilia/stelvio the products I think are outstanding, best in class for driving dynamics, also the styling I believe, but is subjective of course. Well made too.
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