Would you buy an Integrale?
Discussion
daviekiwi said:
Seen this bourdeaux red 8v sold for £41,400 including fee's.
It's a lovely colour though, and has a nice nose down stance to it?
Under bonnet pics didn't look the best.
8 valve's are now probably rarer than Evo's?
I commented on this car on the Lancia forum - the engine bay paintwork is shocking for a restoration - overspray, dust inclusions all over the place - not sure how that passed any form of inspection before re-assembly, engine installation, etc. Wonder what it looks like underneath? It's a lovely colour though, and has a nice nose down stance to it?
Under bonnet pics didn't look the best.
8 valve's are now probably rarer than Evo's?
I'm the op, bought the integrale a year ago today as it was my bucket list car.
One year on and the ownership experience has been great.
It's like an occasion taking it out for a drive.
Lovely steering feel, bit of 80s turbo lag which adds to the excitement!
It's been reliable and practical with two kid's.
However the response from folk when they see it or I'm at the fuel station is unbelievable?
Anyone else experience this?![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/maNWF8Eu.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/zXv4Xv2o" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/zXv4Xv2o.jpg)
One year on and the ownership experience has been great.
It's like an occasion taking it out for a drive.
Lovely steering feel, bit of 80s turbo lag which adds to the excitement!
It's been reliable and practical with two kid's.
However the response from folk when they see it or I'm at the fuel station is unbelievable?
Anyone else experience this?
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/DZqUq1nx.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/yAdMS5rv" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/yAdMS5rv.jpg)
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/sLmVNBoH.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/sLmVNBoH" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/t/sLmVNBoH.jpg)
As of just before Christmas I am now Lancia-less.
Taking the losses into account, my 16 months of ownership worked out as £1000 per month for a car I drove sporadically, and when I was behind the wheel I was constantly waiting for a moment of revelation that never came. In fact the over-riding feeling was 'Will it get me home again?' or 'What will be the next thing to need attention?'
As mentioned in the previous few posts, the attention it garnered was unreal and people seemed to love seeing one out in the wild. I think their enthusiasm would have been lessened if they'd have had to live with the thing.
Along with the 205 GTI I owned briefly around this time last year, I've learned an expensive lesson, namely 'Don't expect fragile 30 year old cars to not feel like fragile 30 year old cars'.
It transpires that the 4wd in my daily driver is essentially that used in the integrale so I shall take solace in that!
Taking the losses into account, my 16 months of ownership worked out as £1000 per month for a car I drove sporadically, and when I was behind the wheel I was constantly waiting for a moment of revelation that never came. In fact the over-riding feeling was 'Will it get me home again?' or 'What will be the next thing to need attention?'
As mentioned in the previous few posts, the attention it garnered was unreal and people seemed to love seeing one out in the wild. I think their enthusiasm would have been lessened if they'd have had to live with the thing.
Along with the 205 GTI I owned briefly around this time last year, I've learned an expensive lesson, namely 'Don't expect fragile 30 year old cars to not feel like fragile 30 year old cars'.
It transpires that the 4wd in my daily driver is essentially that used in the integrale so I shall take solace in that!
DrBrule said:
As of just before Christmas I am now Lancia-less.
Taking the losses into account, my 16 months of ownership worked out as £1000 per month for a car I drove sporadically, and when I was behind the wheel I was constantly waiting for a moment of revelation that never came. In fact the over-riding feeling was 'Will it get me home again?' or 'What will be the next thing to need attention?'
As mentioned in the previous few posts, the attention it garnered was unreal and people seemed to love seeing one out in the wild. I think their enthusiasm would have been lessened if they'd have had to live with the thing.
Along with the 205 GTI I owned briefly around this time last year, I've learned an expensive lesson, namely 'Don't expect fragile 30 year old cars to not feel like fragile 30 year old cars'.
It transpires that the 4wd in my daily driver is essentially that used in the integrale so I shall take solace in that!
I think if you buy an integrale, you don't expect Toyota reliability? you will get a few big bill's.Taking the losses into account, my 16 months of ownership worked out as £1000 per month for a car I drove sporadically, and when I was behind the wheel I was constantly waiting for a moment of revelation that never came. In fact the over-riding feeling was 'Will it get me home again?' or 'What will be the next thing to need attention?'
As mentioned in the previous few posts, the attention it garnered was unreal and people seemed to love seeing one out in the wild. I think their enthusiasm would have been lessened if they'd have had to live with the thing.
Along with the 205 GTI I owned briefly around this time last year, I've learned an expensive lesson, namely 'Don't expect fragile 30 year old cars to not feel like fragile 30 year old cars'.
It transpires that the 4wd in my daily driver is essentially that used in the integrale so I shall take solace in that!
You don't buy a Ferrari for reliability, it's for their stunning looks?
daviekiwi said:
I think if you buy an integrale, you don't expect Toyota reliability? you will get a few big bill's.
You don't buy a Ferrari for reliability, it's for their stunning looks?
I could just about stomach the bills if the driving experience justified them, but it didn’t. I’m left wondering what all the fuss is about. You don't buy a Ferrari for reliability, it's for their stunning looks?
Harris_I said:
I actually feel bad for you. I just came back from a weekend away in the Surrey Hills near Dorking. Can't think of a more enjoyable car for those roads.
After years of reading about them and watching videos extolling how great they are, it didn't feel special. I didn't dislike driving it, but that moment of 'Oh, so THIS is what they are all about' never came. I'm not a 9/10ths driver - could it be I needed to be braver behind the wheel? Quite possibly.Back in my youth in the mid 90s I had a lowly 1.4 205 XS and I still remember the thrill of threading that through the roads of Worcester & Malvern and tucking into corners at legal (but quick) speeds that made me laugh with delight. I was hoping to recapture that feeling again through 4wd and double the power.
Maybe I need somebody to take me out as a passenger and show me where I was going wrong.
DrBrule said:
After years of reading about them and watching videos extolling how great they are, it didn't feel special. I didn't dislike driving it, but that moment of 'Oh, so THIS is what they are all about' never came. I'm not a 9/10ths driver - could it be I needed to be braver behind the wheel? Quite possibly.
Back in my youth in the mid 90s I had a lowly 1.4 205 XS and I still remember the thrill of threading that through the roads of Worcester & Malvern and tucking into corners at legal (but quick) speeds that made me laugh with delight. I was hoping to recapture that feeling again through 4wd and double the power.
Maybe I need somebody to take me out as a passenger and show me where I was going wrong.
Like you, I am not a 9/10ths driver but once threw the keys of my highly modified Alfetta GTV6 (used a a track car by previous owner) to a friend of mine who does the Nurburgring almost monthly; as a passenger, I found out very quickly what the car was capable of in the right hands but to be honest, quietly crapped myself! I have not given him the keys to the Integrale or modified Lancia Fulvia. Back in my youth in the mid 90s I had a lowly 1.4 205 XS and I still remember the thrill of threading that through the roads of Worcester & Malvern and tucking into corners at legal (but quick) speeds that made me laugh with delight. I was hoping to recapture that feeling again through 4wd and double the power.
Maybe I need somebody to take me out as a passenger and show me where I was going wrong.
IMHO the Delta Integrale, like its lesser powered HF turbo sibling, is something special.
DrBrule said:
After years of reading about them and watching videos extolling how great they are, it didn't feel special. I didn't dislike driving it, but that moment of 'Oh, so THIS is what they are all about' never came. I'm not a 9/10ths driver - could it be I needed to be braver behind the wheel? Quite possibly.
Back in my youth in the mid 90s I had a lowly 1.4 205 XS and I still remember the thrill of threading that through the roads of Worcester & Malvern and tucking into corners at legal (but quick) speeds that made me laugh with delight. I was hoping to recapture that feeling again through 4wd and double the power.
Maybe I need somebody to take me out as a passenger and show me where I was going wrong.
TBH I don't drive it very hard these days. Mostly "making progress" sensibly. I'm just revelling in the huggy seats, brilliant steering feel, burbly exhaust and 3rd gear shove (mine is slightly tweaked).Back in my youth in the mid 90s I had a lowly 1.4 205 XS and I still remember the thrill of threading that through the roads of Worcester & Malvern and tucking into corners at legal (but quick) speeds that made me laugh with delight. I was hoping to recapture that feeling again through 4wd and double the power.
Maybe I need somebody to take me out as a passenger and show me where I was going wrong.
I got bored of ePAS, traction control, flappy paddle 500bhp modern stuff. Feels like punching some buttons on a space ship and letting the computer do the rest.
Harris_I said:
I got bored of ePAS, traction control, flappy paddle 500bhp modern stuff. Feels like punching some buttons on a space ship and letting the computer do the rest.
We have some common ground; I owned a Giulia QF and got rid of it for similar reasons. It made things too easy and the novelty quickly wore off. My personal preference is ‘less is more’’.Seeing Harris_I’s yellow Evo 2 above brings back memories of mine.
I did buy an Integrale but for anyone hoping for current feedback I should immediately say please don’t waste any time reading any more, I sold it as far back as April 2005. So these are some of my memories and a few photos of my 1994 Limited Edition Giallo Evo 2.
I knew I really wanted an Evo 2 and it had to be the Giallo Limited Edition. I also liked the metallic Bleu Lagos Limited Edition but didn’t want the leather interior. If I was going to have an Evo 2 I didn’t want the standard red, white or dark Lord Blue.
The first question was, could I actually live with a LHD car as it was to be my daily driver in the UK? To help me decide on this I realised that a 1989/90 VW Golf Rallye, also LHD and also very rare could be useful as an exploratory driving experience. It had the quattro style wheel arches and was supercharged. As at that time it was a third of the cost of an Evo 2, at least I hadn’t committed myself too much to driving LHD if I couldn’t get on with it. In standard form with about 160bhp that proved very disappointing, it was just too heavy with the 4 wheel drive and really needed the chip and pulley upgrade to increase the power to about 190bhp. Apart from getting some 17” alloys, so at least it looked the part and they were considerably easier to clean, I’d decided that it wasn’t worth committing to the extra power upgrade. It would make much better financial sense to keep that money back, sell the Rallye as standard, and get the Evo 2.
I did go to see both red and dark blue Evo 2s but knew it was only really to build information on what the typical condition state would be. I eventually found one which seemed to be the best I’d seen and it was Giallo.
The following are some of my now distant memories:
Wow, those high back Recaros, the Alcantara, the yellow dials, the turbo boost kicking in above about 3,000rpm! Why had I wasted my time with the Rallye, forgetting of course it was also to see if I could live with the LHD. I had now learned to live with the inconveniences and more difficult overtaking by now. Plus in the days prior to automatic number recognition when car park entry was by swipe machine or taking a ticket, getting out quickly and running round to the machine. There was only ever a car immediately behind when I was driving LHD!
Although the car was only 5-6 years old and below average mileage. I noticed that the yellow body-colour paint in the rear arches had already worn through to grey in the tyre flick-off areas. As it was to be my daily driver I immediately undersealed the arches and underside areas. I would be driving through winter regardless, after all I had 4 wheel drive. In fact I don’t remember any really bad winters and getting to explore the 4 wheel drive in snow. However when it came time to sell, this proved to be a mistake. An otherwise very keen potential buyer wanted a completely standard Giallo car, so that meant no underseal !!
About half way through my first MOT year I got a ‘puncture’. Fortunately I was only doing about 50mph on a straight road. On getting out to find the flat tyre, to my horror I found that the inside edge of both front tyres was excessively worn, on the flat tyre the reinforcing was exposed. It wasn’t a puncture, it was completely worn through! Fortunately there was a space saver to get me home, a tyre inflater canister would have left me totally stranded where I was.
I loved the fact that it was the only Evo 2 or Integrale I saw in my travels, unless on my way to an Italian type car event. On one occasion on the M40 a convoy of about 8 – 10 various Nissans gradually caught me up at my 70mph. As more or less each car drew up alongside in the middle lane I got a thumbs up or wave from the driver and/or passenger. I’m guessing they were on their way to a Nissan meet up at Gaydon perhaps. Respect.
I was very grateful that the door mirrors are just a few mms wider than the front arch. On one occasion on meeting an approaching on-coming car in a narrow lane, whereas I had slowed down and got tight into the kerb, the approaching driver continued on at the same speed. Door mirrors banged, so loudly that I thought it must have been my front wheel arch as well. I got out and wandered around fearing the worst. Incredibly it was just some paint scuff on the mirror housing. Clearly the door mirrors on his car protruded far more beyond his bodywork than mine did. Oh and thanks for slowing down mate. And after such a loud bang he wasn’t brave enough to stop to see the extent of any damage caused.
There were only two disappointments really. One was how high maintenance it was around the front suspension and as mentioned above, the inside edges of the front tyres. Bear in mind that Integrales had won the World Rally Champs 6 years running, so it must be fairly heavy duty, surely. I had 4 wheel alignment done several times, including to Rob Whalley’s set up but the front tyres were illegal in half the hoped for mileage. Drop links or something else needed replacing again and again. If Ford or Vauxhall could manage to build their then reps cars which only needed occasional attention, why couldn’t Lancia. The car was never thrashed (probably only up to 8/10 as per previous posts) and was serviced by a nearby Italian car specialist, who were looking after other Integrales too. Nothing major went wrong, it was kept serviced as per the service intervals.
After about 5 years it was time to let it go, time and life had moved on. The next disappointment was that it took so long to sell. It was still a very good condition car, from memory only about 60,000 miles but with the LHD not a lot of interest. I must have sold at near rock bottom of the market at £10,800! If only I had had the space to keep it.
Whereas I had kept it absolutely standard apart from the underseal, I believe the next owner had top-end engine mods and 17” look a like alloys. I subsequently met the next new owner to him at Brooklands who advised that he needed to do the bottom end works which ideally would have been done at the same time as the top end. That’s not my expertise, just what he said.
Each time I see a Giallo Evo 2 at an event I’m drawn to it. Just the sight of the bulging bonnet and front wheel arches on steroids, what a stance and presence. I wish I could still have mine again but then I have to remind myself about the maintenance. But an Evo 2 is now quite an expensive car to buy, so other alternatives for the same money or less come to mind, a GR Yaris, Honda Civic Type R at possibly near half the price as just two examples. So, would I buy an Integrale? Yes I did. Would I, could I buy one today at 2024 POA prices? Unfortunately no. Would I like to see it in my garage when I opened the door? Yes, very much so. I have to tell myself that I had one when they were at affordable prices.
So what do you get after an Evo 2? It left a big space. Initially it was to be an Alfa Romeo SZ. I had actually told an owner at an Italian car event where I had put a ‘for sale’ notice for my car in the window, that if I could sell mine, I’d buy his. Unfortunately the stars didn’t align.
I eventually ended up with a French car, at least it had some impressive wheels arches, and it was yellow again and limited edition. It was one of only 18 UK Liquid Yellow Clio v6s. That has now also gone but sold for comfortably more than what I paid for it. But that’s now another car which I couldn’t justify buying at 2024 prices. Both were very rare and are hardly ever seen. Possibly the Evo got even more attention, possibly non enthusiasts just recognised the outline of the V6 as a regular Clio at a quick glance. The V6’s supposed 255 bhp was probably more like 240 compared to the Evo’s 220 bhp. The V6 definitely sounded better and had more torque but when the turbo was fired up that felt just as fast. V6s in wet and slippery conditions could be very tricky, some were written off, not so with the Evo's 4 wheel drive. The Evo’s high back Recaros were some of the best, the V6’s seats were just standard Clio, a big let down. The V6’s tyres lasted years on all 4 corners, the Evo’s only about one year on the front. The Evo was high and repeated maintenance, the V6 every 2 years subject to mileage.
One of the posts above mentions people’s reaction at petrol stations. That reminds me, that was me too. On leaving Uxbridge one afternoon after work in my Evo heading towards the Denham M40 roundabout I passed the petrol station. As I drew level amazingly there was a Giallo Evo 2 being filled up by the female driver. All I could do in my excitement with a car immediately behind was to beep beep beep and continue on. That was probably the only other Evo 2 I saw in my travels. I completely forgot about that until the next service many months later. When I got there I was greeted with – were you the guy who was hooting at the boss’s wife in the Giallo Evo 2? So she had seen and was evidently very amused. Not only that but at that point she was able to tell her husband that she got what driving the Evo was about.
I did see the probably repeated Car SOS on a Giallo Evo 2 a couple of months ago. There were some pretty rusty areas on that car. I did wonder if my undersealing had helped delay or even prevent that on my previous car. Sadly I see that it’s road tax expired in Nov 2008 and the MOT in April 2009. I wonder what the story is. Hopefully it’s not as bad as the Car SOS car was.
I did buy an Integrale but for anyone hoping for current feedback I should immediately say please don’t waste any time reading any more, I sold it as far back as April 2005. So these are some of my memories and a few photos of my 1994 Limited Edition Giallo Evo 2.
I knew I really wanted an Evo 2 and it had to be the Giallo Limited Edition. I also liked the metallic Bleu Lagos Limited Edition but didn’t want the leather interior. If I was going to have an Evo 2 I didn’t want the standard red, white or dark Lord Blue.
The first question was, could I actually live with a LHD car as it was to be my daily driver in the UK? To help me decide on this I realised that a 1989/90 VW Golf Rallye, also LHD and also very rare could be useful as an exploratory driving experience. It had the quattro style wheel arches and was supercharged. As at that time it was a third of the cost of an Evo 2, at least I hadn’t committed myself too much to driving LHD if I couldn’t get on with it. In standard form with about 160bhp that proved very disappointing, it was just too heavy with the 4 wheel drive and really needed the chip and pulley upgrade to increase the power to about 190bhp. Apart from getting some 17” alloys, so at least it looked the part and they were considerably easier to clean, I’d decided that it wasn’t worth committing to the extra power upgrade. It would make much better financial sense to keep that money back, sell the Rallye as standard, and get the Evo 2.
I did go to see both red and dark blue Evo 2s but knew it was only really to build information on what the typical condition state would be. I eventually found one which seemed to be the best I’d seen and it was Giallo.
The following are some of my now distant memories:
Wow, those high back Recaros, the Alcantara, the yellow dials, the turbo boost kicking in above about 3,000rpm! Why had I wasted my time with the Rallye, forgetting of course it was also to see if I could live with the LHD. I had now learned to live with the inconveniences and more difficult overtaking by now. Plus in the days prior to automatic number recognition when car park entry was by swipe machine or taking a ticket, getting out quickly and running round to the machine. There was only ever a car immediately behind when I was driving LHD!
Although the car was only 5-6 years old and below average mileage. I noticed that the yellow body-colour paint in the rear arches had already worn through to grey in the tyre flick-off areas. As it was to be my daily driver I immediately undersealed the arches and underside areas. I would be driving through winter regardless, after all I had 4 wheel drive. In fact I don’t remember any really bad winters and getting to explore the 4 wheel drive in snow. However when it came time to sell, this proved to be a mistake. An otherwise very keen potential buyer wanted a completely standard Giallo car, so that meant no underseal !!
About half way through my first MOT year I got a ‘puncture’. Fortunately I was only doing about 50mph on a straight road. On getting out to find the flat tyre, to my horror I found that the inside edge of both front tyres was excessively worn, on the flat tyre the reinforcing was exposed. It wasn’t a puncture, it was completely worn through! Fortunately there was a space saver to get me home, a tyre inflater canister would have left me totally stranded where I was.
I loved the fact that it was the only Evo 2 or Integrale I saw in my travels, unless on my way to an Italian type car event. On one occasion on the M40 a convoy of about 8 – 10 various Nissans gradually caught me up at my 70mph. As more or less each car drew up alongside in the middle lane I got a thumbs up or wave from the driver and/or passenger. I’m guessing they were on their way to a Nissan meet up at Gaydon perhaps. Respect.
I was very grateful that the door mirrors are just a few mms wider than the front arch. On one occasion on meeting an approaching on-coming car in a narrow lane, whereas I had slowed down and got tight into the kerb, the approaching driver continued on at the same speed. Door mirrors banged, so loudly that I thought it must have been my front wheel arch as well. I got out and wandered around fearing the worst. Incredibly it was just some paint scuff on the mirror housing. Clearly the door mirrors on his car protruded far more beyond his bodywork than mine did. Oh and thanks for slowing down mate. And after such a loud bang he wasn’t brave enough to stop to see the extent of any damage caused.
There were only two disappointments really. One was how high maintenance it was around the front suspension and as mentioned above, the inside edges of the front tyres. Bear in mind that Integrales had won the World Rally Champs 6 years running, so it must be fairly heavy duty, surely. I had 4 wheel alignment done several times, including to Rob Whalley’s set up but the front tyres were illegal in half the hoped for mileage. Drop links or something else needed replacing again and again. If Ford or Vauxhall could manage to build their then reps cars which only needed occasional attention, why couldn’t Lancia. The car was never thrashed (probably only up to 8/10 as per previous posts) and was serviced by a nearby Italian car specialist, who were looking after other Integrales too. Nothing major went wrong, it was kept serviced as per the service intervals.
After about 5 years it was time to let it go, time and life had moved on. The next disappointment was that it took so long to sell. It was still a very good condition car, from memory only about 60,000 miles but with the LHD not a lot of interest. I must have sold at near rock bottom of the market at £10,800! If only I had had the space to keep it.
Whereas I had kept it absolutely standard apart from the underseal, I believe the next owner had top-end engine mods and 17” look a like alloys. I subsequently met the next new owner to him at Brooklands who advised that he needed to do the bottom end works which ideally would have been done at the same time as the top end. That’s not my expertise, just what he said.
Each time I see a Giallo Evo 2 at an event I’m drawn to it. Just the sight of the bulging bonnet and front wheel arches on steroids, what a stance and presence. I wish I could still have mine again but then I have to remind myself about the maintenance. But an Evo 2 is now quite an expensive car to buy, so other alternatives for the same money or less come to mind, a GR Yaris, Honda Civic Type R at possibly near half the price as just two examples. So, would I buy an Integrale? Yes I did. Would I, could I buy one today at 2024 POA prices? Unfortunately no. Would I like to see it in my garage when I opened the door? Yes, very much so. I have to tell myself that I had one when they were at affordable prices.
So what do you get after an Evo 2? It left a big space. Initially it was to be an Alfa Romeo SZ. I had actually told an owner at an Italian car event where I had put a ‘for sale’ notice for my car in the window, that if I could sell mine, I’d buy his. Unfortunately the stars didn’t align.
I eventually ended up with a French car, at least it had some impressive wheels arches, and it was yellow again and limited edition. It was one of only 18 UK Liquid Yellow Clio v6s. That has now also gone but sold for comfortably more than what I paid for it. But that’s now another car which I couldn’t justify buying at 2024 prices. Both were very rare and are hardly ever seen. Possibly the Evo got even more attention, possibly non enthusiasts just recognised the outline of the V6 as a regular Clio at a quick glance. The V6’s supposed 255 bhp was probably more like 240 compared to the Evo’s 220 bhp. The V6 definitely sounded better and had more torque but when the turbo was fired up that felt just as fast. V6s in wet and slippery conditions could be very tricky, some were written off, not so with the Evo's 4 wheel drive. The Evo’s high back Recaros were some of the best, the V6’s seats were just standard Clio, a big let down. The V6’s tyres lasted years on all 4 corners, the Evo’s only about one year on the front. The Evo was high and repeated maintenance, the V6 every 2 years subject to mileage.
One of the posts above mentions people’s reaction at petrol stations. That reminds me, that was me too. On leaving Uxbridge one afternoon after work in my Evo heading towards the Denham M40 roundabout I passed the petrol station. As I drew level amazingly there was a Giallo Evo 2 being filled up by the female driver. All I could do in my excitement with a car immediately behind was to beep beep beep and continue on. That was probably the only other Evo 2 I saw in my travels. I completely forgot about that until the next service many months later. When I got there I was greeted with – were you the guy who was hooting at the boss’s wife in the Giallo Evo 2? So she had seen and was evidently very amused. Not only that but at that point she was able to tell her husband that she got what driving the Evo was about.
I did see the probably repeated Car SOS on a Giallo Evo 2 a couple of months ago. There were some pretty rusty areas on that car. I did wonder if my undersealing had helped delay or even prevent that on my previous car. Sadly I see that it’s road tax expired in Nov 2008 and the MOT in April 2009. I wonder what the story is. Hopefully it’s not as bad as the Car SOS car was.
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