156 JTD buying advice required, please.
Discussion
Guys,
Until recently, was looking at a Honda Accord diesel in and around £12-13K, but unfortunately circumstances have changed dramatically, and my aspirations have had to change with them.
So, looking at spending £7K ish, and in another "what car should I buy" thread on General Gassing - to which I'll no doubt add to - I saw a recommendation for a £5K or so (IIRC) 164.
So, I'm now potentially thinking about an '04 156 1.9 JTD (non MJ version I believe) with 12K on the clock for circa £6.5-7K.
I also think it's the Lusso or Veloce - not sure as I don't know what the principle difference is, other than the Turismo doesn't have steering wheel mounted controls for audio and cruise. It does have leather interior, if that helps pigeon hole the model.
Anyway, read many of the previous threads here - some convincing me to run like the blazes, others encouraging that not every AR manufactured is a lemon.
I'll probably not be doing THAT great a number of miles, but will likely be driving the thing for the next 3-5 years, no doubt.
So, specifically on this engine and model, can or would someone like to enlighten me as to what I would realistically expect if I seriously opted for it?
Things like cambelts and clutch - as from the previous threads, these seem to be the most expensive things needing done. How much different are they from the TS and V6 petrol models, if any?
Also air con, etc.
Thanks everyone in advance for your help
Until recently, was looking at a Honda Accord diesel in and around £12-13K, but unfortunately circumstances have changed dramatically, and my aspirations have had to change with them.
So, looking at spending £7K ish, and in another "what car should I buy" thread on General Gassing - to which I'll no doubt add to - I saw a recommendation for a £5K or so (IIRC) 164.
So, I'm now potentially thinking about an '04 156 1.9 JTD (non MJ version I believe) with 12K on the clock for circa £6.5-7K.
I also think it's the Lusso or Veloce - not sure as I don't know what the principle difference is, other than the Turismo doesn't have steering wheel mounted controls for audio and cruise. It does have leather interior, if that helps pigeon hole the model.
Anyway, read many of the previous threads here - some convincing me to run like the blazes, others encouraging that not every AR manufactured is a lemon.
I'll probably not be doing THAT great a number of miles, but will likely be driving the thing for the next 3-5 years, no doubt.
So, specifically on this engine and model, can or would someone like to enlighten me as to what I would realistically expect if I seriously opted for it?
Things like cambelts and clutch - as from the previous threads, these seem to be the most expensive things needing done. How much different are they from the TS and V6 petrol models, if any?
Also air con, etc.
Thanks everyone in advance for your help
My wifes had a 2.4JTD for three years, only had two head light bulbs and a timing belt in this time done by myself in about two hours. The car has lots more torque than my 2l TS and is certanly just as agile. The car is very harse on rough roads due to suspension set up and weight distribution. One other thing to watch for are noisy front crank pullys as they are rubber dampened and frequantly split.
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
Thanks for the reply.
One other aspect I should've asked for is the exhaust note. Yea, I know I'll need to go test drive one myself, but how does the diesel sound when pushing the revs on a bit?
Equally, the engine, how does it sound by comparison to say a Mondeo? I know it'll not be as quiet as the Honda's in all likelihood.
I'm not expecting it to sound like a petrol obviously, but just how diesely does it sound at start-up and warmed up from inside. The Ford is quite bad when cold, but not so bad once warmed or until it's pushing on.
One other aspect I should've asked for is the exhaust note. Yea, I know I'll need to go test drive one myself, but how does the diesel sound when pushing the revs on a bit?
Equally, the engine, how does it sound by comparison to say a Mondeo? I know it'll not be as quiet as the Honda's in all likelihood.
I'm not expecting it to sound like a petrol obviously, but just how diesely does it sound at start-up and warmed up from inside. The Ford is quite bad when cold, but not so bad once warmed or until it's pushing on.
And handling?
Again, my main point of reference is Mondeo/Focus - which always felt well planted with no real surprises such as kick-back.
All very progressive in wet, touch of steer-into and slight lift off undid any understeer.
In the dry, they were like limpets.
One of the links in alfa156.net made interesting reading about suspension - particularly spring and damper combos that supposedly stop the suspension riding on the bump stops.
Think that was also in combo with wheel and tyre sizes as well.
But, as standard, how'd you or the wife find it?
Again, my main point of reference is Mondeo/Focus - which always felt well planted with no real surprises such as kick-back.
All very progressive in wet, touch of steer-into and slight lift off undid any understeer.
In the dry, they were like limpets.
One of the links in alfa156.net made interesting reading about suspension - particularly spring and damper combos that supposedly stop the suspension riding on the bump stops.
Think that was also in combo with wheel and tyre sizes as well.
But, as standard, how'd you or the wife find it?
I`ve driven some frightening cars in the past and at present but the alfa just point it at a corner and it comes out the other side with no fuss or dramatics. Suspension is set up realy well, we are on standard telephone dials with standard continental tyres. The car is brilliant can`t see it being changed for some time yet (unless I find 30K in my jeans and by a Brera)
We have cracked a sump with a little extreme driving on the moors, although in the cars defence the plastic under tray had been removed and temporarly not refitted so this could he marked down to me.
Have a decent test drive preferably with out the sales suit and enjoy. What have you to lose? Bear in mind I have the 2.4 not the 1.9 as theres no substitute to cubes.
We have cracked a sump with a little extreme driving on the moors, although in the cars defence the plastic under tray had been removed and temporarly not refitted so this could he marked down to me.
Have a decent test drive preferably with out the sales suit and enjoy. What have you to lose? Bear in mind I have the 2.4 not the 1.9 as theres no substitute to cubes.
I've just sold my 2.4 JTD Wagon and it was the best car I've ever had. Loved it. 46,000 miles and it needed a headlight bulb and two battery clamps, plus a couple of bushes under warranty. Oh, and lots of front tyres.
The 10 valve 2.4 is as strong as they come, sounds great when up and running and on smooth roads the handling/ride is fine. If you are on a very bumpy road the suspension can get a bit befuddled by it all.
The 1.9 is lighter and newer, but it doesn't have the character, noise or effortless urge of the 2.4. There are three 1.9s - 8 valve 115bhp, 16 valve 140bhp and on the very last facelift cars 16 valve 150bhp.
The V5 should state Turismo/Lusso/Veloce. As a general guide Veloces have side skirts and Lussos have cruise control, but if someone has played with the options it's not always as clear cut as that! Some cars also have a small italic script by the front wheels stating Turismo/Lusso/Veloce.
Hope you get one and don't get put off by the nay-sayers who invariably have never had the pleasure of owning an Alfa Romeo and are just bitter and twisted because of it.
The 10 valve 2.4 is as strong as they come, sounds great when up and running and on smooth roads the handling/ride is fine. If you are on a very bumpy road the suspension can get a bit befuddled by it all.
The 1.9 is lighter and newer, but it doesn't have the character, noise or effortless urge of the 2.4. There are three 1.9s - 8 valve 115bhp, 16 valve 140bhp and on the very last facelift cars 16 valve 150bhp.
The V5 should state Turismo/Lusso/Veloce. As a general guide Veloces have side skirts and Lussos have cruise control, but if someone has played with the options it's not always as clear cut as that! Some cars also have a small italic script by the front wheels stating Turismo/Lusso/Veloce.
Hope you get one and don't get put off by the nay-sayers who invariably have never had the pleasure of owning an Alfa Romeo and are just bitter and twisted because of it.
I would agree with Rick - I have had a 2.4JTD and now have a 150BHP 1.9. The 2.4 felt unburstable and had lots of character, as well as being very reliable over 3 yrs/100k miles. The 1.9 is quick but not as characterful and has required more attention (all under warranty) between services. Based on my own experience I would go for a late 2.4 if you can get one, although I still enjoy the 1.9 - more fun to drive than an equivalent German motor IMO.
I've got a 103,000 mile (2001 140bhp) 2.4 JTD.
It's had it's fair share of problems and even though I'm really annoyed with it at the moment I love it really.
On the up-side it is more fun than a 5 seat family saloon ought to be, still looks beautiful and has only broken down once, and that was because the fuel line had been disturbed in a service and popped off when I floored it, so hardly the car's fault! It is comfortable and everything works.
On the downside it eats suspension bushes (get polyurethane replacements) and so can tend to eat tyres too, especially with all the weight at the front with the 2.4. I've cracked my sump too - these are low cars but you learn to ride the bumps (my sump was actually cracked by a mate who borrowed it and wasn't used to it, but then I destroyed the gearbox on his GT6, so fair's fair) It also has started to leak water into the passenger footwell - there are various ways this can get there, but the most common places seem to be via a misrouted a/c pipe, some sealant missing underneath, the windscreen base and throught the wing-mirror seal - lift the carpet in the pasenger footwell to check it isn't wet.
The full list of non-serivce parts I've had is:
front wishbones (quite common)
all bushes
power steering pump (unfer warranty, but the dealer told me it was £900 of work - listen for whines)
the grill thing that goes between the front driving/fog lights - two of them, they are a bugger to fit
front shocks (originals weeping at 50k miles)
plus it's had one set of discs and pads (£500 or so fitted) and will have a new clutch soon, but then it is quite high mileage and I do tend to use the torque a lot.
I know that sounds like a lot, but really there are excellent cars. Make sure the one you try revs freely - there is harldy any lag. Nay flat spots (particularly around 3000 rpm) will most likely be a result of a dodgy MAF meter, so get them to change it before you buy.
Let us know how you get on.
It's had it's fair share of problems and even though I'm really annoyed with it at the moment I love it really.
On the up-side it is more fun than a 5 seat family saloon ought to be, still looks beautiful and has only broken down once, and that was because the fuel line had been disturbed in a service and popped off when I floored it, so hardly the car's fault! It is comfortable and everything works.
On the downside it eats suspension bushes (get polyurethane replacements) and so can tend to eat tyres too, especially with all the weight at the front with the 2.4. I've cracked my sump too - these are low cars but you learn to ride the bumps (my sump was actually cracked by a mate who borrowed it and wasn't used to it, but then I destroyed the gearbox on his GT6, so fair's fair) It also has started to leak water into the passenger footwell - there are various ways this can get there, but the most common places seem to be via a misrouted a/c pipe, some sealant missing underneath, the windscreen base and throught the wing-mirror seal - lift the carpet in the pasenger footwell to check it isn't wet.
The full list of non-serivce parts I've had is:
front wishbones (quite common)
all bushes
power steering pump (unfer warranty, but the dealer told me it was £900 of work - listen for whines)
the grill thing that goes between the front driving/fog lights - two of them, they are a bugger to fit
front shocks (originals weeping at 50k miles)
plus it's had one set of discs and pads (£500 or so fitted) and will have a new clutch soon, but then it is quite high mileage and I do tend to use the torque a lot.
I know that sounds like a lot, but really there are excellent cars. Make sure the one you try revs freely - there is harldy any lag. Nay flat spots (particularly around 3000 rpm) will most likely be a result of a dodgy MAF meter, so get them to change it before you buy.
Let us know how you get on.
Thanks guys for all your input and thoughts.
I've mulled it over the past couple of weeks and have ultimately decided I'm going to opt for the caution over bravado approach.
So, with that said, I'll probably be buying a Honda Accord (petrol) with 70K+ miles for my budget.
I would've dearly loved an Alfa, but........
Who knows, might revisit this when the 159s are down in my price bracket or I get company assistance (so to speak) to help buy and run the car.
Again, a very big heartfelt thanks for doing all you could to encourage me to become an Alfosi.
I've mulled it over the past couple of weeks and have ultimately decided I'm going to opt for the caution over bravado approach.
So, with that said, I'll probably be buying a Honda Accord (petrol) with 70K+ miles for my budget.
I would've dearly loved an Alfa, but........
Who knows, might revisit this when the 159s are down in my price bracket or I get company assistance (so to speak) to help buy and run the car.
Again, a very big heartfelt thanks for doing all you could to encourage me to become an Alfosi.
Gassing Station | Alfa Romeo, Fiat & Lancia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff