Let's see your Alfa Romeos!
Discussion
johntennyson said:
Y'know, I can tell you why I like Lotuses (clever simplicity and chassis performance) or my Miata (sports car fun with Corolla-like durabillity) or my Mustang (a big, torquey Golden Retriever of a car), but I still can't put a finger on why I love Alfas
and I've had this one since 1993!
and I've had this one since 1993!
Unfortunately, I don't have the time, budget or space to run a classic car ATM, so for now I'm looking out for this:
It probably won't be the most engaging car, or the best car, or be a future classic, but it just does something to me a Focus ST or Golf GTI can't
I shudder to talk about my '93 164 QV Cloverleaf these days for fear of boring everyone with my enthusiasm for it! Coming up to 15 years' ownership now of this underrated machine which has been a professional working car all its life and rarely sleeps overnight in a warm, dry garage and yet I simply can't explain why I never get bored with it.
My first and only Alfa, I originally bought it as a stop-gap in 2002 in anticipation of the very specific Fiat Coupe Turbo which I was seeking at the time (but never found) and this elegant white bi*ch-mistress quickly but insidiously started working her charms on me. Fifteen years later and the story is unchanged. If she ever leaves me the divorce will be traumatic, to say the least.
Up on those wonderful Yorkshire moors during the Roger Albert Clark rally four years ago.
From 77,000 miles at purchase, she is now less than 2k from breaking the 200,000 mile barrier. Original engine? Oh ye of little faith, yes of course! I do however confess that I broke the gearbox at 105k following a street-fight with an RS4 which necessitated a rebuild. 230 BHP versus the Audi's 400 plus? Yes, but that's the kind of car the Cloverleaf is. It WILL wade into battle knowing it's probably going to emerge with a bloody nose.
Dawn on the promenade in Penzance on a trip to the Isles of Scilly.
Why perchance is this car underrated? My own view is that many people only see a large-ish FWD executive saloon which is unlikely to get off the line smartly and I would agree with that. The depths and true talent of this car need to be discovered through driving. I shan't go on about the Busso V6 because everyone who knows this marvellous engine does exactly that. What I will say is that somebody at Alfa Romeo really knew what they were doing when they set this chassis up. The result is that the Cloverleaf drives and handles better the faster you go and I have never found the chassis to be wanting even in 'moments' of extreme excess. You can simply use more of that 230 BHP for FAR more of the time than you would think ever possible on first acquaintance and consequently the car's a supremely faithful ally on fast, twisty and challenging roads.
It's sometimes dirty!
I've heard it said that the car's weight (1500 kg) can work against it under braking although I've never experienced that. Then again, I've never been the last of the late brakers and when 'giving it death' the gearbox is always fully in play anyway, even down to double de-clutching into first for hairpin bends and the like.
For the rest, the Pininfarina design is conservatively elegant (1980's skirts aside perhaps!) and simple. The car has a very comfortable and well-appointed interior plus a usefully-commanding driving position (no long-arm/short-leg stuff here) allied to great forward visibility through the broad windscreen. That view out is a proper widescreen TV so no excuses for not being able to place this car to within an inch or two of your chosen target then!
The 164 Cloverleaf is a discreet, virtually invisible machine (which happens to suit me just fine) so it won't turn heads if that's what you seek. However, the upside of being off the radar is that the car receives none of the unwanted attention that can exist out there. You can park it anywhere knowing that it will not come to any harm by the time you return. Yes, Q-ship is the term.
It's sometimes clean! (Brooklands)
As a kind of 90's neo-classic you really do need to hook up with an Alfa specialist (Adrian Jardine at Alfa Aid takes care of mine) as parts aren't that easy to come by today and the car will reward the intimate knowledge and attention of Alfa specialists in terms of reliability and the correct driving experience. Yes, these particular 164's were top of the range Alfas (at the time) and while simple in some respects they are complicated in a number of areas and so you WILL receive big bills once in a while. Having said that, my own is still a viable daily driver with its continuous run of twenty one-odd valid MOT certificates.
You know something? I sometimes wish I could get bored with the 'Leaf. You see, there's this Maserati...(not kidding, the 164 really is that good!).
Oh, alright then - one more!
My first and only Alfa, I originally bought it as a stop-gap in 2002 in anticipation of the very specific Fiat Coupe Turbo which I was seeking at the time (but never found) and this elegant white bi*ch-mistress quickly but insidiously started working her charms on me. Fifteen years later and the story is unchanged. If she ever leaves me the divorce will be traumatic, to say the least.
Up on those wonderful Yorkshire moors during the Roger Albert Clark rally four years ago.
From 77,000 miles at purchase, she is now less than 2k from breaking the 200,000 mile barrier. Original engine? Oh ye of little faith, yes of course! I do however confess that I broke the gearbox at 105k following a street-fight with an RS4 which necessitated a rebuild. 230 BHP versus the Audi's 400 plus? Yes, but that's the kind of car the Cloverleaf is. It WILL wade into battle knowing it's probably going to emerge with a bloody nose.
Dawn on the promenade in Penzance on a trip to the Isles of Scilly.
Why perchance is this car underrated? My own view is that many people only see a large-ish FWD executive saloon which is unlikely to get off the line smartly and I would agree with that. The depths and true talent of this car need to be discovered through driving. I shan't go on about the Busso V6 because everyone who knows this marvellous engine does exactly that. What I will say is that somebody at Alfa Romeo really knew what they were doing when they set this chassis up. The result is that the Cloverleaf drives and handles better the faster you go and I have never found the chassis to be wanting even in 'moments' of extreme excess. You can simply use more of that 230 BHP for FAR more of the time than you would think ever possible on first acquaintance and consequently the car's a supremely faithful ally on fast, twisty and challenging roads.
It's sometimes dirty!
I've heard it said that the car's weight (1500 kg) can work against it under braking although I've never experienced that. Then again, I've never been the last of the late brakers and when 'giving it death' the gearbox is always fully in play anyway, even down to double de-clutching into first for hairpin bends and the like.
For the rest, the Pininfarina design is conservatively elegant (1980's skirts aside perhaps!) and simple. The car has a very comfortable and well-appointed interior plus a usefully-commanding driving position (no long-arm/short-leg stuff here) allied to great forward visibility through the broad windscreen. That view out is a proper widescreen TV so no excuses for not being able to place this car to within an inch or two of your chosen target then!
The 164 Cloverleaf is a discreet, virtually invisible machine (which happens to suit me just fine) so it won't turn heads if that's what you seek. However, the upside of being off the radar is that the car receives none of the unwanted attention that can exist out there. You can park it anywhere knowing that it will not come to any harm by the time you return. Yes, Q-ship is the term.
It's sometimes clean! (Brooklands)
As a kind of 90's neo-classic you really do need to hook up with an Alfa specialist (Adrian Jardine at Alfa Aid takes care of mine) as parts aren't that easy to come by today and the car will reward the intimate knowledge and attention of Alfa specialists in terms of reliability and the correct driving experience. Yes, these particular 164's were top of the range Alfas (at the time) and while simple in some respects they are complicated in a number of areas and so you WILL receive big bills once in a while. Having said that, my own is still a viable daily driver with its continuous run of twenty one-odd valid MOT certificates.
You know something? I sometimes wish I could get bored with the 'Leaf. You see, there's this Maserati...(not kidding, the 164 really is that good!).
Oh, alright then - one more!
Robert-nszl1 said:
joshcowin said:
Epic!! Have you written anything on your experience of ownership?
For me this car easily stands out in the supercar world, it is really a thing of beauty.
I'm slightly ashamed to say I haven't driven it much. I also own the green '73 Giulia GTV pictured a couple of posts up coming down the Splügen pass which I drive much more. The pic was taken by my friend driving in a 550 Maranello. It was late enough in the day to be quiet on the pass, and we had a great run. I love the 8C, it's such an occasion just starting the engine, but......I prefer driving the GTV! Sorry everyone, this has nothing to do with its flaws, it actually drives pretty well. It sounds epic, the best I have ever owned. But the GTV is more accessible, and that matters these days. I will try harder!For me this car easily stands out in the supercar world, it is really a thing of beauty.
What sort of mileage are we talking? What have you used it for, quick blasts out or longer touring journeys?
Just interested as I don't think I have ever spoken/typed to anyone who owns one!
firebird350 said:
I shudder to talk about my '93 164 QV Cloverleaf these days for fear of boring everyone with my enthusiasm for it! Coming up to 15 years' ownership now of this underrated machine which has been a professional working car all its life and rarely sleeps overnight in a warm, dry garage and yet I simply can't explain why I never get bored with it.
And here is a pic of it before you bought it! 
joshcowin said:
Do not apologise, just post more pics
What sort of mileage are we talking? What have you used it for, quick blasts out or longer touring journeys?
Just interested as I don't think I have ever spoken/typed to anyone who owns one!
Slight issue uploading as the file sizes are too large.What sort of mileage are we talking? What have you used it for, quick blasts out or longer touring journeys?
Just interested as I don't think I have ever spoken/typed to anyone who owns one!
Short blasts only around Sussex to date. I was under a lot of pressure to take it down to the Alps last spring, but the GTV won.
As a car to drive it is not for the faint hearted. It sounds brilliant, inside and out. It feels very wide (certainly compared to Porsches etc I have owned) though being lhd doesn't help in the UK. The gear box in it is pretty hopeless, certainly compared to more recent pdk offerings, but it has enough power and torque, and frankly you spend a lot of time holding the higher gears just for the noise.
I know there was a fair bit of criticism of the chassis at launch, and I've not pushed it hard enough to really test it, but it is actually pretty compliant and recognising the development budget was quite limited, rides pretty well. Under the skin it is basically a Maserati and no worse for that.
It's a shame it's not manual, the boot is really comical, and I live in fear of damaging it, but as something to own it really is special like no other car I've ever owned
Robert-nszl1 said:
joshcowin said:
Do not apologise, just post more pics
What sort of mileage are we talking? What have you used it for, quick blasts out or longer touring journeys?
Just interested as I don't think I have ever spoken/typed to anyone who owns one!
Slight issue uploading as the file sizes are too large.What sort of mileage are we talking? What have you used it for, quick blasts out or longer touring journeys?
Just interested as I don't think I have ever spoken/typed to anyone who owns one!
Short blasts only around Sussex to date. I was under a lot of pressure to take it down to the Alps last spring, but the GTV won.
As a car to drive it is not for the faint hearted. It sounds brilliant, inside and out. It feels very wide (certainly compared to Porsches etc I have owned) though being lhd doesn't help in the UK. The gear box in it is pretty hopeless, certainly compared to more recent pdk offerings, but it has enough power and torque, and frankly you spend a lot of time holding the higher gears just for the noise.
I know there was a fair bit of criticism of the chassis at launch, and I've not pushed it hard enough to really test it, but it is actually pretty compliant and recognising the development budget was quite limited, rides pretty well. Under the skin it is basically a Maserati and no worse for that.
It's a shame it's not manual, the boot is really comical, and I live in fear of damaging it, but as something to own it really is special like no other car I've ever owned
At least it looks amazing, and hasn't depriciated!
Posted before on here somewhere - but said goodbye in November after 4 years. Did a short write up on it here https://goo.gl/v38lXA
I'll be back in an Alfa one day.
I'll be back in an Alfa one day.
joshcowin said:
Great insight thanks, always thought it would be a good GT car, different from the granturismo! But guessing luggage space would be a pain!
At least it looks amazing, and hasn't depriciated!
There is actually reasonable space behind the seats, and quite a few have the fitted luggage. The boot itself has a letterbox sized space. Big enough perhaps for a thong wearing Italian to put said thong! It really is comical.At least it looks amazing, and hasn't depriciated!
But they have been thoughful in packaging more generally. It's not cramped inside at all, and the driving position is fine. The interior is to s much higher standard thsn a Maser. There is room for weekend luggage, or if you are alone you'd be fine. You are right, it is more gt than out and out sportscar but no worse for that in my opinion. At the end of the day it is a beautiful looking thing. To me it is up there with the all time greats.
Re post of mine. Been a great car!!!
There is something great about Alfa's!!!!
Can't wait to see the Giulia on the road.
There is something great about Alfa's!!!!
Can't wait to see the Giulia on the road.
Uncle John said:
Just picked this up as a runaround this week.
147 JTDm Lusso in Radifocani Red, which looks brownish until the sun comes out and then the red flake sparkles and transforms it.
Had a couple of 33's back in the day and I must say its great to be back in an Alfa.
I have always struggled with the fact Alfa were to go diesel but the engine pulls and revs well and it still drives like an Alfa should.
Interior is very nice and for a small car it's a comfortable ride.
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/pucbjE64.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/uJoA2BoA" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/uJoA2BoA.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/ruPGrXvg" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/ruPGrXvg.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/s7ytS57r" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/s7ytS57r.jpg)
147 JTDm Lusso in Radifocani Red, which looks brownish until the sun comes out and then the red flake sparkles and transforms it.
Had a couple of 33's back in the day and I must say its great to be back in an Alfa.
I have always struggled with the fact Alfa were to go diesel but the engine pulls and revs well and it still drives like an Alfa should.
Interior is very nice and for a small car it's a comfortable ride.
Edited by Uncle John on Friday 4th July 22:30
Edited by Uncle John on Friday 4th July 22:31
Edited by Uncle John on Friday 4th July 22:32
Edited by Uncle John on Friday 4th July 22:32
Robert-nszl1 said:
There is actually reasonable space behind the seats, and quite a few have the fitted luggage. The boot itself has a letterbox sized space. Big enough perhaps for a thong wearing Italian to put said thong! It really is comical.
But they have been thoughful in packaging more generally. It's not cramped inside at all, and the driving position is fine. The interior is to s much higher standard thsn a Maser. There is room for weekend luggage, or if you are alone you'd be fine. You are right, it is more gt than out and out sportscar but no worse for that in my opinion. At the end of the day it is a beautiful looking thing. To me it is up there with the all time greats.
Haha!! I agree on the look, it is amazing design and a real classic. But they have been thoughful in packaging more generally. It's not cramped inside at all, and the driving position is fine. The interior is to s much higher standard thsn a Maser. There is room for weekend luggage, or if you are alone you'd be fine. You are right, it is more gt than out and out sportscar but no worse for that in my opinion. At the end of the day it is a beautiful looking thing. To me it is up there with the all time greats.
Would you ever take it on a tour? I am sure it would get a great reception every time you parked up!
I think I remember spotting this in Esher, turning round and coming to take a look then having a brief chat with you about it, probably 2 or 3 years ago at least. It had done 180k then, can't be many 164's in white with that mileage?
firebird350 said:
I shudder to talk about my '93 164 QV Cloverleaf these days for fear of boring everyone with my enthusiasm for it! Coming up to 15 years' ownership now of this underrated machine which has been a professional working car all its life and rarely sleeps overnight in a warm, dry garage and yet I simply can't explain why I never get bored with it.
My first and only Alfa, I originally bought it as a stop-gap in 2002 in anticipation of the very specific Fiat Coupe Turbo which I was seeking at the time (but never found) and this elegant white bi*ch-mistress quickly but insidiously started working her charms on me. Fifteen years later and the story is unchanged. If she ever leaves me the divorce will be traumatic, to say the least.
Up on those wonderful Yorkshire moors during the Roger Albert Clark rally four years ago.
From 77,000 miles at purchase, she is now less than 2k from breaking the 200,000 mile barrier. Original engine? Oh ye of little faith, yes of course! I do however confess that I broke the gearbox at 105k following a street-fight with an RS4 which necessitated a rebuild. 230 BHP versus the Audi's 400 plus? Yes, but that's the kind of car the Cloverleaf is. It WILL wade into battle knowing it's probably going to emerge with a bloody nose.
Dawn on the promenade in Penzance on a trip to the Isles of Scilly.
Why perchance is this car underrated? My own view is that many people only see a large-ish FWD executive saloon which is unlikely to get off the line smartly and I would agree with that. The depths and true talent of this car need to be discovered through driving. I shan't go on about the Busso V6 because everyone who knows this marvellous engine does exactly that. What I will say is that somebody at Alfa Romeo really knew what they were doing when they set this chassis up. The result is that the Cloverleaf drives and handles better the faster you go and I have never found the chassis to be wanting even in 'moments' of extreme excess. You can simply use more of that 230 BHP for FAR more of the time than you would think ever possible on first acquaintance and consequently the car's a supremely faithful ally on fast, twisty and challenging roads.
It's sometimes dirty!
I've heard it said that the car's weight (1500 kg) can work against it under braking although I've never experienced that. Then again, I've never been the last of the late brakers and when 'giving it death' the gearbox is always fully in play anyway, even down to double de-clutching into first for hairpin bends and the like.
For the rest, the Pininfarina design is conservatively elegant (1980's skirts aside perhaps!) and simple. The car has a very comfortable and well-appointed interior plus a usefully-commanding driving position (no long-arm/short-leg stuff here) allied to great forward visibility through the broad windscreen. That view out is a proper widescreen TV so no excuses for not being able to place this car to within an inch or two of your chosen target then!
The 164 Cloverleaf is a discreet, virtually invisible machine (which happens to suit me just fine) so it won't turn heads if that's what you seek. However, the upside of being off the radar is that the car receives none of the unwanted attention that can exist out there. You can park it anywhere knowing that it will not come to any harm by the time you return. Yes, Q-ship is the term.
It's sometimes clean! (Brooklands)
As a kind of 90's neo-classic you really do need to hook up with an Alfa specialist (Adrian Jardine at Alfa Aid takes care of mine) as parts aren't that easy to come by today and the car will reward the intimate knowledge and attention of Alfa specialists in terms of reliability and the correct driving experience. Yes, these particular 164's were top of the range Alfas (at the time) and while simple in some respects they are complicated in a number of areas and so you WILL receive big bills once in a while. Having said that, my own is still a viable daily driver with its continuous run of twenty one-odd valid MOT certificates.
You know something? I sometimes wish I could get bored with the 'Leaf. You see, there's this Maserati...(not kidding, the 164 really is that good!).
Oh, alright then - one more!
My first and only Alfa, I originally bought it as a stop-gap in 2002 in anticipation of the very specific Fiat Coupe Turbo which I was seeking at the time (but never found) and this elegant white bi*ch-mistress quickly but insidiously started working her charms on me. Fifteen years later and the story is unchanged. If she ever leaves me the divorce will be traumatic, to say the least.
Up on those wonderful Yorkshire moors during the Roger Albert Clark rally four years ago.
From 77,000 miles at purchase, she is now less than 2k from breaking the 200,000 mile barrier. Original engine? Oh ye of little faith, yes of course! I do however confess that I broke the gearbox at 105k following a street-fight with an RS4 which necessitated a rebuild. 230 BHP versus the Audi's 400 plus? Yes, but that's the kind of car the Cloverleaf is. It WILL wade into battle knowing it's probably going to emerge with a bloody nose.
Dawn on the promenade in Penzance on a trip to the Isles of Scilly.
Why perchance is this car underrated? My own view is that many people only see a large-ish FWD executive saloon which is unlikely to get off the line smartly and I would agree with that. The depths and true talent of this car need to be discovered through driving. I shan't go on about the Busso V6 because everyone who knows this marvellous engine does exactly that. What I will say is that somebody at Alfa Romeo really knew what they were doing when they set this chassis up. The result is that the Cloverleaf drives and handles better the faster you go and I have never found the chassis to be wanting even in 'moments' of extreme excess. You can simply use more of that 230 BHP for FAR more of the time than you would think ever possible on first acquaintance and consequently the car's a supremely faithful ally on fast, twisty and challenging roads.
It's sometimes dirty!
I've heard it said that the car's weight (1500 kg) can work against it under braking although I've never experienced that. Then again, I've never been the last of the late brakers and when 'giving it death' the gearbox is always fully in play anyway, even down to double de-clutching into first for hairpin bends and the like.
For the rest, the Pininfarina design is conservatively elegant (1980's skirts aside perhaps!) and simple. The car has a very comfortable and well-appointed interior plus a usefully-commanding driving position (no long-arm/short-leg stuff here) allied to great forward visibility through the broad windscreen. That view out is a proper widescreen TV so no excuses for not being able to place this car to within an inch or two of your chosen target then!
The 164 Cloverleaf is a discreet, virtually invisible machine (which happens to suit me just fine) so it won't turn heads if that's what you seek. However, the upside of being off the radar is that the car receives none of the unwanted attention that can exist out there. You can park it anywhere knowing that it will not come to any harm by the time you return. Yes, Q-ship is the term.
It's sometimes clean! (Brooklands)
As a kind of 90's neo-classic you really do need to hook up with an Alfa specialist (Adrian Jardine at Alfa Aid takes care of mine) as parts aren't that easy to come by today and the car will reward the intimate knowledge and attention of Alfa specialists in terms of reliability and the correct driving experience. Yes, these particular 164's were top of the range Alfas (at the time) and while simple in some respects they are complicated in a number of areas and so you WILL receive big bills once in a while. Having said that, my own is still a viable daily driver with its continuous run of twenty one-odd valid MOT certificates.
You know something? I sometimes wish I could get bored with the 'Leaf. You see, there's this Maserati...(not kidding, the 164 really is that good!).
Oh, alright then - one more!
RicksAlfas said:
jamies30 said:
No pictures of my 33 or my GTV6 that I can find, unfortunately.
Don't worry Jamie, I've got some:
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