Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 4
Discussion
Our enemy is not global warming. In Britain, people are dying of the cold
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/11/winter-fuel/
Fanciful predictions of all the deaths that will result from climate change, decades into the future, are regularly thrown into public debate. Less attention has been given to a real statistic from the here and now, released by the Office of National Statistics this week, which shows the effects of one of the policies designed to tackle climate change: HIGH ENERGY PRICES. It emerged this week that there were 31,000 ‘excess’ deaths in England and Wales last winter, almost a third more than the previous year. Almost all were, in effect, British pensioners who died of the cold................continues
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2013/11/winter-fuel/
Fanciful predictions of all the deaths that will result from climate change, decades into the future, are regularly thrown into public debate. Less attention has been given to a real statistic from the here and now, released by the Office of National Statistics this week, which shows the effects of one of the policies designed to tackle climate change: HIGH ENERGY PRICES. It emerged this week that there were 31,000 ‘excess’ deaths in England and Wales last winter, almost a third more than the previous year. Almost all were, in effect, British pensioners who died of the cold................continues
Energy review examining household and environmental costs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40839433
An independent review looking at ways to reduce energy costs has been launched by the government.
The study will examine how the UK can keep household bills down while also meeting its climate change targets.
Oxford University professor Dieter Helm, who is carrying out the work, said he would "sort out the facts from the myths about the cost of energy".
The launch comes just days after British Gas raised electricity prices by 12.5% for 3m customers.
The study, which is expected to be published in October, will look at the key factors affecting bills - including energy and carbon pricing, efficiency measures and regulation.
It will consider how costs can be reduced at all stages of the energy supply chain, as well as the impact of new technology on the sector.............continues
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40839433
An independent review looking at ways to reduce energy costs has been launched by the government.
The study will examine how the UK can keep household bills down while also meeting its climate change targets.
Oxford University professor Dieter Helm, who is carrying out the work, said he would "sort out the facts from the myths about the cost of energy".
The launch comes just days after British Gas raised electricity prices by 12.5% for 3m customers.
The study, which is expected to be published in October, will look at the key factors affecting bills - including energy and carbon pricing, efficiency measures and regulation.
It will consider how costs can be reduced at all stages of the energy supply chain, as well as the impact of new technology on the sector.............continues
A review to reduce energy costs has just taken place (here).
Result: scrap the pointless and vastly expensive Climate Change Act and save hundreds of £billions with significant reductions in business and domestic energy bills.
Alternatively fiddle about while bending the knee to climate junkscience and save peanuts i.e. prices rise by an itty bttty bit less but still rise due to the green blob.
Result: scrap the pointless and vastly expensive Climate Change Act and save hundreds of £billions with significant reductions in business and domestic energy bills.
Alternatively fiddle about while bending the knee to climate junkscience and save peanuts i.e. prices rise by an itty bttty bit less but still rise due to the green blob.
Please excuse a politically incorrect parody.
A new has found that by 2100 the Inuits could be wiped out by global warming.
The unprecedented crisis in global warming reached new heights today as Dr Oss claimed that the Earths temperature could rise by 4 C by 2100 this could be catastrophic for the Inuit people of Canada.
This rise in temperature, he claimed, would lead to a melting of their natural home the igloo, this increase in water could lead to excessive numbers of the Inuits drowning. The population would be decimated, wiped out. They would only be found in textbooks.
He did, however, hold out some hope for the peoples displaced from Africa to Canada. Many would be able to survive by turning their wattle and daub huts into make shift lift rafts until they could be rescued.
A new has found that by 2100 the Inuits could be wiped out by global warming.
The unprecedented crisis in global warming reached new heights today as Dr Oss claimed that the Earths temperature could rise by 4 C by 2100 this could be catastrophic for the Inuit people of Canada.
This rise in temperature, he claimed, would lead to a melting of their natural home the igloo, this increase in water could lead to excessive numbers of the Inuits drowning. The population would be decimated, wiped out. They would only be found in textbooks.
He did, however, hold out some hope for the peoples displaced from Africa to Canada. Many would be able to survive by turning their wattle and daub huts into make shift lift rafts until they could be rescued.
mybrainhurts said:
You do know that article was written by a PHer, don't you?
He joined these threads for a while and employed some rather distasteful language.
no , i didn't know that . i just found it funny for what it was,i don't think it has any relevance to the topic of this thread either,just worth a laugh He joined these threads for a while and employed some rather distasteful language.
wc98 said:
mybrainhurts said:
You do know that article was written by a PHer, don't you?
He joined these threads for a while and employed some rather distasteful language.
no , i didn't know that . i just found it funny for what it was,i don't think it has any relevance to the topic of this thread either,just worth a laugh He joined these threads for a while and employed some rather distasteful language.
t seems the Australians are waking up to the utter folly of replacing coal and gas with renewables...
"Aussie Liberal Press Notices the Importance of Reliable Electricity"
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/08/06/aussie-libe...
"Tony Wright
The power went out at our house and across our suburb around dinner time on Wednesday.
Outside, neighbours returning home sat in their cars in a street as dark as a tomb, their garage doors refusing to answer their electronic clickers.
We searched for candles with the light of mobile phones, discovering only that we’d burned them to nothing at dinner parties.
We weren’t prepared for this return to an unfamiliar era at all."
I have a suspicion that one governments lose the support for this, the fickle politicians will have little choice to change tack, and subsidies will start to subside and then trickle to nothing as those in power realise they will lose power and influence if they carry n down this road of blackness..
"Aussie Liberal Press Notices the Importance of Reliable Electricity"
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/08/06/aussie-libe...
"Tony Wright
The power went out at our house and across our suburb around dinner time on Wednesday.
Outside, neighbours returning home sat in their cars in a street as dark as a tomb, their garage doors refusing to answer their electronic clickers.
We searched for candles with the light of mobile phones, discovering only that we’d burned them to nothing at dinner parties.
We weren’t prepared for this return to an unfamiliar era at all."
I have a suspicion that one governments lose the support for this, the fickle politicians will have little choice to change tack, and subsidies will start to subside and then trickle to nothing as those in power realise they will lose power and influence if they carry n down this road of blackness..
jet_noise said:
chris watton said:
<snip>
We searched for candles with the light of mobile phones, discovering only that we’d burned them to nothing at dinner parties.
Surely one for the 1st world problems thread?We searched for candles with the light of mobile phones, discovering only that we’d burned them to nothing at dinner parties.
Also, my oft-posted 'guidance' is at least partly vindicated...buy Damart and candles.
Burning policy puts pressure on recycling targets
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-4083...
A boom in incinerator-building could make it impossible for the UK to meet future targets for recycling, a report says.
The consultancy Eunomia says waste companies constructing new incinerators will need waste to feed them.
And that could reduce Britain’s stated ambition to recycle more waste.
A government spokesman said "great progress" had been made in boosting recycling rates.
But Eunomia’s report says current trends in building incinerators will make a mockery of the ambition of Environment Secretary Michael Gove to achieve a “green Brexit”........continues
Meanwhile
An estimated 887,465 tonnes of waste-derived fuel – is now sold overseas, up from zero tonnes six years ago. Likewise, the export of recovered plastics experienced a nine-fold increase in the decade up to 2011. Millions of tonnes of paper, metals and other UK recyclate are finding their way to international markets as well, with China taking the lion's share.
Left hand, Right hand ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-4083...
A boom in incinerator-building could make it impossible for the UK to meet future targets for recycling, a report says.
The consultancy Eunomia says waste companies constructing new incinerators will need waste to feed them.
And that could reduce Britain’s stated ambition to recycle more waste.
A government spokesman said "great progress" had been made in boosting recycling rates.
But Eunomia’s report says current trends in building incinerators will make a mockery of the ambition of Environment Secretary Michael Gove to achieve a “green Brexit”........continues
Meanwhile
An estimated 887,465 tonnes of waste-derived fuel – is now sold overseas, up from zero tonnes six years ago. Likewise, the export of recovered plastics experienced a nine-fold increase in the decade up to 2011. Millions of tonnes of paper, metals and other UK recyclate are finding their way to international markets as well, with China taking the lion's share.
Left hand, Right hand ?
turbobloke said:
jet_noise said:
chris watton said:
<snip>
We searched for candles with the light of mobile phones, discovering only that we’d burned them to nothing at dinner parties.
Surely one for the 1st world problems thread?We searched for candles with the light of mobile phones, discovering only that we’d burned them to nothing at dinner parties.
Also, my oft-posted 'guidance' is at least partly vindicated...buy Damart and candles.
Along with the butcher and the baker - the candlestick maker.
"An important new industry that will create 100,000 jobs across the UK" said an expert spokesperson.
robinessex said:
Burning policy puts pressure on recycling targets
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-4083...
A boom in incinerator-building could make it impossible for the UK to meet future targets for recycling, a report says.
The consultancy Eunomia says waste companies constructing new incinerators will need waste to feed them.
And that could reduce Britain’s stated ambition to recycle more waste.
A government spokesman said "great progress" had been made in boosting recycling rates.
But Eunomia’s report says current trends in building incinerators will make a mockery of the ambition of Environment Secretary Michael Gove to achieve a “green Brexit”........continues
Meanwhile
An estimated 887,465 tonnes of waste-derived fuel – is now sold overseas, up from zero tonnes six years ago. Likewise, the export of recovered plastics experienced a nine-fold increase in the decade up to 2011. Millions of tonnes of paper, metals and other UK recyclate are finding their way to international markets as well, with China taking the lion's share.
Left hand, Right hand ?
better than local councils sending our "recycled" waste to african landfill i suppose . the chinese must be wetting themselves with laughter at the folly of the west .http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-4083...
A boom in incinerator-building could make it impossible for the UK to meet future targets for recycling, a report says.
The consultancy Eunomia says waste companies constructing new incinerators will need waste to feed them.
And that could reduce Britain’s stated ambition to recycle more waste.
A government spokesman said "great progress" had been made in boosting recycling rates.
But Eunomia’s report says current trends in building incinerators will make a mockery of the ambition of Environment Secretary Michael Gove to achieve a “green Brexit”........continues
Meanwhile
An estimated 887,465 tonnes of waste-derived fuel – is now sold overseas, up from zero tonnes six years ago. Likewise, the export of recovered plastics experienced a nine-fold increase in the decade up to 2011. Millions of tonnes of paper, metals and other UK recyclate are finding their way to international markets as well, with China taking the lion's share.
Left hand, Right hand ?
robinessex said:
The Beebs at it again
Extreme weather 'could kill up to 152,000 a year' in Europe by 2100
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40835663
Extreme weather could kill up to 152,000 people each year in Europe by 2100 if nothing is done to curb the effects of climate change, scientists say.
The number is 50 times more deaths than reported now, the study in The Lancet Planetary Health journal said.
Heat waves would cause 99% of all weather-related deaths, it added, with southern Europe being worst affected.
Experts said the findings were worrying.
If nothing is done to cut greenhouse gas emissions and to improve policies to reduce the impact against extreme weather events, the study by the European Commission's Joint Research Centre says:
Deaths caused by extreme weather could rise from 3,000 a year between 1981 and 2010 to 152,000 between 2071 and 2100
Two in three people in Europe will be affected by disasters by 2100, against a rate of one in 20 at the start of the century
There will be a substantial rise in deaths from coastal flooding, from six victims a year at the start of the century to 233 a year by the end of it
The research analysed the effects of the seven most dangerous types of weather-related events - heat waves, cold snaps, wildfires, droughts, river and coastal floods and windstorms - in the 28 EU countries as well as Switzerland, Norway and Iceland.
The team looked at disaster records from 1981 to 2010 to estimate population vulnerability, and combined this information with predictions of how climate change might progress and how populations might increase and migrate.
Warnings are Europe sizzles in 44C heat
"Climate change is one of the biggest global threats to human health of the 21st century, and its peril to society will be increasingly connected to weather-driven hazards," said Giovanni Forzieri, one of the authors of the study.
"Unless global warming is curbed as a matter of urgency and appropriate measures are taken, about 350 million Europeans could be exposed to harmful climate extremes on an annual basis by the end of the century.
Paul Wilkinson, a professor at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, who was not involved in the study, said the findings were "yet another reminder of the exposures to extreme weather and possible human impacts that might occur if emissions of greenhouse gases continue unabated.
"It adds further weight to the powerful argument for accelerating mitigation actions to protect population health."
How much longer do we have to put up with this complete hysterical bulls
t? And isn't it about time the Beeb was taken to task for it's totally one side reporting of CC ?
The summer is so hot and sunny around here that all the leaves on the trees are turning brown and starting to fall off!Extreme weather 'could kill up to 152,000 a year' in Europe by 2100
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40835663
Extreme weather could kill up to 152,000 people each year in Europe by 2100 if nothing is done to curb the effects of climate change, scientists say.
The number is 50 times more deaths than reported now, the study in The Lancet Planetary Health journal said.
Heat waves would cause 99% of all weather-related deaths, it added, with southern Europe being worst affected.
Experts said the findings were worrying.
If nothing is done to cut greenhouse gas emissions and to improve policies to reduce the impact against extreme weather events, the study by the European Commission's Joint Research Centre says:
Deaths caused by extreme weather could rise from 3,000 a year between 1981 and 2010 to 152,000 between 2071 and 2100
Two in three people in Europe will be affected by disasters by 2100, against a rate of one in 20 at the start of the century
There will be a substantial rise in deaths from coastal flooding, from six victims a year at the start of the century to 233 a year by the end of it
The research analysed the effects of the seven most dangerous types of weather-related events - heat waves, cold snaps, wildfires, droughts, river and coastal floods and windstorms - in the 28 EU countries as well as Switzerland, Norway and Iceland.
The team looked at disaster records from 1981 to 2010 to estimate population vulnerability, and combined this information with predictions of how climate change might progress and how populations might increase and migrate.
Warnings are Europe sizzles in 44C heat
"Climate change is one of the biggest global threats to human health of the 21st century, and its peril to society will be increasingly connected to weather-driven hazards," said Giovanni Forzieri, one of the authors of the study.
"Unless global warming is curbed as a matter of urgency and appropriate measures are taken, about 350 million Europeans could be exposed to harmful climate extremes on an annual basis by the end of the century.
Paul Wilkinson, a professor at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, who was not involved in the study, said the findings were "yet another reminder of the exposures to extreme weather and possible human impacts that might occur if emissions of greenhouse gases continue unabated.
"It adds further weight to the powerful argument for accelerating mitigation actions to protect population health."
How much longer do we have to put up with this complete hysterical bulls
t? And isn't it about time the Beeb was taken to task for it's totally one side reporting of CC ?I kid you not, autumn has started in the NW England.
I demand some climate change funding to research how this is my fault.
turbobloke said:
jet_noise said:
chris watton said:
<snip>
We searched for candles with the light of mobile phones, discovering only that we’d burned them to nothing at dinner parties.
Surely one for the 1st world problems thread?We searched for candles with the light of mobile phones, discovering only that we’d burned them to nothing at dinner parties.
Also, my oft-posted 'guidance' is at least partly vindicated...buy Damart and candles.
Let's have a look at how that's been progressing:
kerplunk said:
turbobloke said:
jet_noise said:
chris watton said:
<snip>
We searched for candles with the light of mobile phones, discovering only that we’d burned them to nothing at dinner parties.
Surely one for the 1st world problems thread?We searched for candles with the light of mobile phones, discovering only that we’d burned them to nothing at dinner parties.
Also, my oft-posted 'guidance' is at least partly vindicated...buy Damart and candles.
Let's have a look at how that's been progressing:
<wood for trees lash-up based on hadcrutar corrupted near-surface data leaning on airport tarmac to prevent it falling over>
More foolish misidentification of the person rather than the message (and the credible data). Same old - It's not about me, but thanks as always for the personal attention, which is flattering.
Keep your wick dry for a while yet. Based on solar data, climate cooling is still on the cards, imminent rather than current and Dalton or Maunder in extent.
There have been tasters, but we'll need to keep an eye on the data to see how it actually plays out and when, in terms of a Dalton or Maunder event.
There are papers not included by the IPCC in their reports - it's not in their raison d'etre to do so as they are a biased political advocacy group not an independent literature review body - which continue to track progress to a Dalton and/or Maunder event.
Like the many dozens of predictions from the IPCC coterie, these are going to be subject to review at the appointed hour.
So far many dozens of inaccurate IPCC predicttions have sunk without trace. We need to wait and see what happens with these (below) rather than suffer from premature adjuducation like you do.
Abdussamatov (2015)
A long-term negative deviation of the Earth’s average annual energy balance from the equilibrium state is dictating corresponding variations in its energy state. As a result, the Earth will have a negative average annual energy balance also in the future. This will lead to the beginning of the decreasing in the Earth’s temperature and of the epoch of the Little Ice Age...The start of the TSI’s Grand Minimum is anticipated in the solar cycle 27±1 in 2043±11 and the beginning of the phase of deep cooling of the 19th Little Ice Age for the past 7,500 years around 2060±11.
Absussamatov has reviewed his projections - using data only available since this paper was published...the dates are pushed back slightly.
Abdusamatov (2012)
The Earth as a planet will have a negative balance in the energy budget in the future as well, because the Sun is entering the decline phase of the bicentennial luminosity changes. … A deep bicentennial minimum in solar constant is to be anticipated in 2042 ± 11 and the 19th Little Ice Age (for the last 7500 years) in 2055 ± 11.
Other papers which see Dalton as imminent have looked to 2100 for a deeper (Maunder) event.
We shall see. Meanwhile, buy Damart and candles.
turbobloke said:
<wood for trees lash-up based on hadcrutar corrupted near-surface data leaning on airport tarmac to prevent it falling over>
Yeh the 'gold standard' satellite data tells a totally different story doesn't it:...maybe not
turbobloke said:
Like the many dozens of predictions from the IPCC coterie, these are going to be subject to review at the appointed hour, So far many dozens of inaccurate IPCC predicttions have sunk without trace. We need to wait and see what happens with these (below) rather than suffer from premature adjuducation like you do.
Or we could look at papers you were promoting ten years ago.
Like David Archibald's 2006 paper which predicted massive solar-forced cooling by 2020:
http://www.davidarchibald.info/papers/Solar%20Cycl...
There's reasonable agreement across sources, both qualitative and quantitative which is hardly surprising when it's science based on data rather than faith.
Lüdecke et al (2015) quantitative (i)
The Earth’s climate shows a rather regular oscillation of ? 200 year period during the last millennia. However, frequency, phase, and strength of the oscillation are found to vary in different time series of temperatures and for different times...Fig 9 shows the Tsine representation from AD 1800 to AD 2100 derived from the ?Tsine representation by a ?/2 phase shift. It gives correctly the 1850–1900 temperature minimum and shows a temperature drop to ? AD 2080, the latter comparable with the Dalton minimum of 1870, as already predicted in other studies (Steinhilber and Beer, 2013; Liu et al., 2011) on the grounds of solar activity data alone.
Steinhilber and Beer (2013) quantitative (ii)
Our methods... were used to predict the period 2000–2500. Both methods predict a period of low activity around 2100 A.D
Zharkova et al. (2015) qualitative
We predict correctly many features from the past, such as: 1) an increase in solar activity during the Medieval Warm period; 2) a clear decrease in the activity during the Little Ice Age, the Maunder Minimum and the Dalton Minimum; 3) an increase in solar activity during a modern maximum in 20th century. .. We note, in particular, a decreasing activity for solar cycles 25 and 26 coinciding with the end of the previous 350–400-year grand cycle and then increase of the solar activity again from cycle 27 onwards as the start of a new grand cycle with an unusually weak cycle 30. Hence, cycles 25–27 marks a clear end of the modern grand period that can have significant implications for many aspects of solar activity in human lives including the current debate on climate change.
Politicians' faith systems don't cut it. We can do no more than keep an eye on the data and ignore the 40-odd model gigofest. Unfortunately we can hardly ignore politicians as they have the power to take our money in the name of their faith - and then waste it.
Lüdecke et al (2015) quantitative (i)
The Earth’s climate shows a rather regular oscillation of ? 200 year period during the last millennia. However, frequency, phase, and strength of the oscillation are found to vary in different time series of temperatures and for different times...Fig 9 shows the Tsine representation from AD 1800 to AD 2100 derived from the ?Tsine representation by a ?/2 phase shift. It gives correctly the 1850–1900 temperature minimum and shows a temperature drop to ? AD 2080, the latter comparable with the Dalton minimum of 1870, as already predicted in other studies (Steinhilber and Beer, 2013; Liu et al., 2011) on the grounds of solar activity data alone.
Steinhilber and Beer (2013) quantitative (ii)
Our methods... were used to predict the period 2000–2500. Both methods predict a period of low activity around 2100 A.D
Zharkova et al. (2015) qualitative
We predict correctly many features from the past, such as: 1) an increase in solar activity during the Medieval Warm period; 2) a clear decrease in the activity during the Little Ice Age, the Maunder Minimum and the Dalton Minimum; 3) an increase in solar activity during a modern maximum in 20th century. .. We note, in particular, a decreasing activity for solar cycles 25 and 26 coinciding with the end of the previous 350–400-year grand cycle and then increase of the solar activity again from cycle 27 onwards as the start of a new grand cycle with an unusually weak cycle 30. Hence, cycles 25–27 marks a clear end of the modern grand period that can have significant implications for many aspects of solar activity in human lives including the current debate on climate change.
Politicians' faith systems don't cut it. We can do no more than keep an eye on the data and ignore the 40-odd model gigofest. Unfortunately we can hardly ignore politicians as they have the power to take our money in the name of their faith - and then waste it.
From the "What's New and Cool" column over at ICECAP. It was the cool bit that caught my eye 
*“Historically the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming the matter is already settled.”
*“Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus.
Consensus is the business of politics. In science, consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus. (Galileo, Newton, Einstein, etc)
Science has been politicized. The politicization of science is the manipulation of science for political gain. It occurs when government, business, or advocacy groups use legal or economic pressure to influence the findings of scientific research or the way it is disseminated, reported or interpreted. The global warming hoax may be the biggest example of the politicization of science in the history of man. It continues in the universities, the media and the next few weeks unfortunately in the theatres.
More at the link.
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/new-and-cool
*“Historically the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming the matter is already settled.”
*“Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus.
Consensus is the business of politics. In science, consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus. (Galileo, Newton, Einstein, etc)
Science has been politicized. The politicization of science is the manipulation of science for political gain. It occurs when government, business, or advocacy groups use legal or economic pressure to influence the findings of scientific research or the way it is disseminated, reported or interpreted. The global warming hoax may be the biggest example of the politicization of science in the history of man. It continues in the universities, the media and the next few weeks unfortunately in the theatres.
More at the link.
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/new-and-cool
This from the political blog Climate Depot:
'This was not supposed to happen’: Gore’s sequel comes in dismal 15th this weekend at the box office – Gore fans allege film ‘sabotaged’ by Paramount
Albert had urged the faithful to pack screenings to send a message to Trump! But wait...believers are in shock as Gore's quackumentary sequel bombs at the box office!!
http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/08/07/under-perfo...
Excellent result but Gore's mob apparently wants a recount. It's like deja vu all over again.
'This was not supposed to happen’: Gore’s sequel comes in dismal 15th this weekend at the box office – Gore fans allege film ‘sabotaged’ by Paramount
Albert had urged the faithful to pack screenings to send a message to Trump! But wait...believers are in shock as Gore's quackumentary sequel bombs at the box office!!
http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/08/07/under-perfo...
Excellent result but Gore's mob apparently wants a recount. It's like deja vu all over again.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff