RE: Road Deaths up in Essex
Tuesday 18th May 2004
Road Deaths up in Essex
Where's the focus on safety from the partnership?
Figures released recently have shown that the number of deaths on the roads in Essex increased to 116 in 2003. That's up from 92 in 2002 and comes close to the 123 killed in 2001.
Essex now has more speed cameras than any other county in the UK and has issued thousands upon thousands of speeding tickets to motorists.
In 2002 the Essex Safety Camera Partnership blasted out the message "THEY ARE WORKING" to support its use of cameras as road safety tools. Either driving standards have got worse in areas not monitored by cameras or in 2003 they weren't proving effective... 
The sad aspect to all this is that while cameras partnerships maintain their dogged belief in cameras, people continue to die on our roads as a result of poor driving.
The dependence on cameras remains perverse. It's time for an Essex Safety Partnership to be formed with a focus on safety rather than cameras. Alternative funding needs to be found.
In the years to come it's likely that we'll see more and more evidence that road deaths aren't decreasing and the credibility of more and more partnerships will become undermined. It will take a brave politician to grasp the nettle though...
Link : www.essexsafetycameras.co.uk
Discussion
Very interesting that, coz the figures from the Leicester Police show the same trend:
www.leics.police.uk/safety_roadsafety.asp
Road deaths are up in 2004 over 2003, despite the Leicester "safety camera" partnership stating their scameras work in reducing road deaths..
and i quote: (from their website)
"Safety Cameras reduce casualties by 56% and accidents by 15%"
www.leics.police.uk/safety_roadsafety.asp
Road deaths are up in 2004 over 2003, despite the Leicester "safety camera" partnership stating their scameras work in reducing road deaths..
and i quote: (from their website)
"Safety Cameras reduce casualties by 56% and accidents by 15%"
I do not believe that speed cameras hold the key to reducing injuries and deaths on the road, nor do I believe that by swamping the country with ever lower speed limits will do the trick either. They may help in some areas, but if you over do it they can have a negative affect. I do hold the belief that by erecting forests of speed limits and cameras it is a bit like putting an Elastoplast on a wound when it would be far more effective to stop the injury occurring in the first place by giving decent driver training.
The D.O.T driving lessons do not teach people how to drive a car. All it does is teach them how to pass a driving test. It is only afterwards, and if they submit themselves to a spot of advanced driver training, do they really learn what driving is all about and how to survive on the road. How many drivers out there know about car handling, and the effect of what they do by use of the controls has upon the balance and stability of the vehicle? Many haven’t got a clue and drive about in glorious innocence sailing close to the edge many times without even knowing it – until you add the wrong set of circumstances that is.
As you can imagine we see a large variety in the way people drive, but we see a handful of common driving methods, which although are not illegal, they are not healthy in terms of maintaining complete car control. We, and other organisations like us, can demonstrate to drivers how there is a more effective way of doing things, but we only see people that want to further their level of skill. Just think of the millions out there that don’t bother. There is one type of car in particular that I can think of where a certain driving method is very commonly used by their owners that will make them crash very easily if that method is combined with another factor at the wrong time. In the mass-production car they had been using beforehand it wasn’t a problem, but now in this car they are in danger.
We can all relate perhaps to a certain area through which we travel regularly and in my case I can think of many speed limits that I would judge as being inappropriately slow – and lots of them. That is all very good for pacifying your local parish council or action group, but if by erecting too many speed limits, and the cameras to enforce them, the motorist is going to hold less and less respect for them because he or she is going to regard them as being ridiculous instead of perhaps thinking there is some good reason for them.
It breeds disrespect. It’s very much like bringing up kids, not that I am suggesting that all motorists are kids, far from it. If you restrict a child too much and stop then from doing everything they want, and rebuke them severely when they don’t comply to every little detail, they will tolerate it for so long but no matter how much respect they will have for you as a parent they will one day rebel and become more uncooperative and difficult than if they had a slightly more relaxed style of upbringing. Give them a little slack now and again and they will have some respect for you and will be more inclined to conform to the important things. The motorist is the same.
Speed cameras have never bothered as I never have and will be unlikely to set one off because I rigidly stick to speed limits – oh yes I do actually, which is something that no one else seems to get their head around. I am the driver of that car into the boot of which every other road user wants to park his or her car, but even I am now finding it increasingly difficult to maintain my strict level of self-discipline.
Make rules and regulations sensible, reasonable and proportionate and you stand more of a chance of getting people to respect them.
One last thing, I believe that by slowing down the motorists quite so often you are de-skilling the driver. What I mean is that they lose the ability to drive quickly on anything but a motorway, so when they do get a rare chance to travel faster on a lesser road they cannot cope with it – and fall off. This theory seems to be supported by the equally vigorous growth, a growth as much as that of speed limits, of the numbers of chevron boards, reflective posts and extra white paint that have appeared on bends and corners. It seems to me that many drivers can no longer cope with driving other than in a straight line and yet their cars are becoming capable of achieving higher and higher speeds.
Giving the driver better training is far more effective than putting up cameras, but that costs money whereas cameras generate it.
Julian Smith
The D.O.T driving lessons do not teach people how to drive a car. All it does is teach them how to pass a driving test. It is only afterwards, and if they submit themselves to a spot of advanced driver training, do they really learn what driving is all about and how to survive on the road. How many drivers out there know about car handling, and the effect of what they do by use of the controls has upon the balance and stability of the vehicle? Many haven’t got a clue and drive about in glorious innocence sailing close to the edge many times without even knowing it – until you add the wrong set of circumstances that is.
As you can imagine we see a large variety in the way people drive, but we see a handful of common driving methods, which although are not illegal, they are not healthy in terms of maintaining complete car control. We, and other organisations like us, can demonstrate to drivers how there is a more effective way of doing things, but we only see people that want to further their level of skill. Just think of the millions out there that don’t bother. There is one type of car in particular that I can think of where a certain driving method is very commonly used by their owners that will make them crash very easily if that method is combined with another factor at the wrong time. In the mass-production car they had been using beforehand it wasn’t a problem, but now in this car they are in danger.
We can all relate perhaps to a certain area through which we travel regularly and in my case I can think of many speed limits that I would judge as being inappropriately slow – and lots of them. That is all very good for pacifying your local parish council or action group, but if by erecting too many speed limits, and the cameras to enforce them, the motorist is going to hold less and less respect for them because he or she is going to regard them as being ridiculous instead of perhaps thinking there is some good reason for them.
It breeds disrespect. It’s very much like bringing up kids, not that I am suggesting that all motorists are kids, far from it. If you restrict a child too much and stop then from doing everything they want, and rebuke them severely when they don’t comply to every little detail, they will tolerate it for so long but no matter how much respect they will have for you as a parent they will one day rebel and become more uncooperative and difficult than if they had a slightly more relaxed style of upbringing. Give them a little slack now and again and they will have some respect for you and will be more inclined to conform to the important things. The motorist is the same.
Speed cameras have never bothered as I never have and will be unlikely to set one off because I rigidly stick to speed limits – oh yes I do actually, which is something that no one else seems to get their head around. I am the driver of that car into the boot of which every other road user wants to park his or her car, but even I am now finding it increasingly difficult to maintain my strict level of self-discipline.
Make rules and regulations sensible, reasonable and proportionate and you stand more of a chance of getting people to respect them.
One last thing, I believe that by slowing down the motorists quite so often you are de-skilling the driver. What I mean is that they lose the ability to drive quickly on anything but a motorway, so when they do get a rare chance to travel faster on a lesser road they cannot cope with it – and fall off. This theory seems to be supported by the equally vigorous growth, a growth as much as that of speed limits, of the numbers of chevron boards, reflective posts and extra white paint that have appeared on bends and corners. It seems to me that many drivers can no longer cope with driving other than in a straight line and yet their cars are becoming capable of achieving higher and higher speeds.
Giving the driver better training is far more effective than putting up cameras, but that costs money whereas cameras generate it.
Julian Smith
I have to ask these questions:
Are the cameras themselves are causing the extra deaths
- by distracting drivers because they are looking for them.
- because the consatina effect is creating accidents where people slow down too much and too quickly for the cameras and people crash into the back of others
- by drivers take different routes to avoid cameras and may be creating extra risk on the roads they are travelling on
Also
- Is the population of essex is increasing so is this rising in proportion?
- How many of these deaths are associated with leisure riding/driving?
I drive both cars and bikes and most of the mistakes I see or encounter are due to lack of awareness, impatience, courtesy and road skills. I think it's about time that drivers are forced to take more seriously what they are doing when in command of a vehicle.
Paul
Are the cameras themselves are causing the extra deaths
- by distracting drivers because they are looking for them.
- because the consatina effect is creating accidents where people slow down too much and too quickly for the cameras and people crash into the back of others
- by drivers take different routes to avoid cameras and may be creating extra risk on the roads they are travelling on
Also
- Is the population of essex is increasing so is this rising in proportion?
- How many of these deaths are associated with leisure riding/driving?
I drive both cars and bikes and most of the mistakes I see or encounter are due to lack of awareness, impatience, courtesy and road skills. I think it's about time that drivers are forced to take more seriously what they are doing when in command of a vehicle.
Paul
Now as soon as I get the bunts together I am going to take a visit to see Julians lot. What a refreshing viewpoint. I did the advanced motorcyclist thing about 20 years ago, but I think a refresher is not a bad thing from time to time.
Would be interesting to know what the common mistake in a certain type of car is though
Would be interesting to know what the common mistake in a certain type of car is though
TonyOut said:
Now as soon as I get the bunts together I am going to take a visit to see Julians lot. What a refreshing viewpoint. I did the advanced motorcyclist thing about 20 years ago, but I think a refresher is not a bad thing from time to time.
Would be interesting to know what the common mistake in a certain type of car is though
Given the propensity towards TVRs of people I know who have done RideDrive courses, I'm guessing it could be that. Or more generally going from a relatively low-powered front wheel drive car with ABS and traction control etc. into a powerful, rear-wheel drive car with no driver aids and thinking there's no need to change the way they drive. Except to go faster.
Am i right Julian?
Good post too, by the way.
>> Edited by neil.b on Tuesday 18th May 15:50
Ride & Drive Ltd said:
I am the driver of that car into the boot of which every other road user wants to park his or her car, but even I am now finding it increasingly difficult to maintain my strict level of self-discipline.
Relieved to find it's not just me that feels like this.
Also agree with the observations about the increasing frequency of signs and vast amounts of white paint. Devaluing a valuable indicator of hazards in my humble opinion.
FiF
TonyOut said:
Now as soon as I get the bunts together I am going to take a visit to see Julians lot. What a refreshing viewpoint. I did the advanced motorcyclist thing about 20 years ago, but I think a refresher is not a bad thing from time to time.
Would be interesting to know what the common mistake in a certain type of car is though
Highly recommended! I did their 8hr course in my mum's people carrier (I know the shame!) last summer as I didn't have a car of my own. (Still don't but thats about to change)
It made a refreshing change to be complemented on my driving whilest they tweaked areas that could be improved. They don't sit there and shout at you when you make a mistake but try and talk you through what you did wrong and how to improve it.
I'm planning to IAM or Rospa training this summer because at 21, whilest quite experienced for my age I feel there are some areas I would like to improve on. I will do another RideDrive course when I get my first rear wheel drive car.
PS.
to Julian and the rest of his teamneil.b said:
Now as soon as I get the bunts together I am going to take a visit to see Julians lot. What a refreshing viewpoint. I did the advanced motorcyclist thing about 20 years ago, but I think a refresher is not a bad thing from time to time.
Would be interesting to know what the common mistake in a certain type of car is though
Given the propensity towards TVRs of people I know who have done RideDrive courses, I'm guessing it could be that. Or more generally going from a relatively low-powered front wheel drive car with ABS and traction control etc. into a powerful, rear-wheel drive car with no driver aids and thinking there's no need to change the way they drive. Except to go faster.
Am i right Julian?
Good post too, by the way.
>> Edited by neil.b on Tuesday 18th May 15:50
Engine braking in a TVR mixed with wet / damp road?
Alan
Ride Drive Ltd said:
Coupled with ragged, ill-timed and unnecessary gear changes, yes. But that is not all there is to it. You have to think about the forces acting on the car as well as what it is you are asking of it when you do what you do.
Julian
same as almost any bike really. And a lot more likely to hurt if you get it wrong.
Back to Essex - I'm finding it a sodding nuisance to drive in Essex these days because of all the cameras and excess paint on roads, and stupidly low limits. No wonder there are more road deaths - people are getting frustrated with it all & making mistakes.
Below is the actual statement from the Essex Safety Camera site. Note the home office quoted "issued speeding tickets" and this site quotes "paid tickets". In this defence document they are seen to be twisting the facts. No Doubt learning from the politicians. Does this mean only 50% of the people getting a ticket actually pay?
"Recent Home Office figures have suggested that Essex Police issued in the region of 200,000 Fixed Penalty Notice tickets for the year 2002.
Figures supplied to the Home Office, by Essex Police, showed that in the year April 2002/April 2003 there were 94,537 paid conditional offers commonly referred to as Fixed Penalty Notice tickets. That figure was a drop of 10,000 on the previous year and the figures for 2003/4 have dropped a further 9,000."
Of course if road users are made to drive slowly it causes inattention and boredom as well as general lack of interest in driving. This in time leads to lower standards and ability which is the real reason accidents are going up again. Don't you notice the glazed look in many drivers eyes, as well as the person who has edged their speed to 40 and is having trouble coping. I have noticed an increase of the so called safe drivers. In a 60 they drive at 40 and when they get to a 30 they stay at 40.
I also have severe doubts here in Essex on the positioning of many cameras. I feel that the Safety Partnership are not following the guidelines laid down for positioning of these cameras.
The law at times is an ass. Why should a motorway have a 70 limit every hour of every day? I prefer to drive according to the conditions.
"Recent Home Office figures have suggested that Essex Police issued in the region of 200,000 Fixed Penalty Notice tickets for the year 2002.
Figures supplied to the Home Office, by Essex Police, showed that in the year April 2002/April 2003 there were 94,537 paid conditional offers commonly referred to as Fixed Penalty Notice tickets. That figure was a drop of 10,000 on the previous year and the figures for 2003/4 have dropped a further 9,000."
Of course if road users are made to drive slowly it causes inattention and boredom as well as general lack of interest in driving. This in time leads to lower standards and ability which is the real reason accidents are going up again. Don't you notice the glazed look in many drivers eyes, as well as the person who has edged their speed to 40 and is having trouble coping. I have noticed an increase of the so called safe drivers. In a 60 they drive at 40 and when they get to a 30 they stay at 40.
I also have severe doubts here in Essex on the positioning of many cameras. I feel that the Safety Partnership are not following the guidelines laid down for positioning of these cameras.
The law at times is an ass. Why should a motorway have a 70 limit every hour of every day? I prefer to drive according to the conditions.
i never relised how many cameras there are in essex until i drove into wickford today to start a new job i went down the A127/A132 i must have passed more than 7 over about a 10-15 mile trip if that and thats just one way and not mentioning the cameras on the lights as well.
Most of these cameras are on a nice straight dual carrage way with a 40 limit as well
Most of these cameras are on a nice straight dual carrage way with a 40 limit as well
Some intersting essex statistics here which show that not much has changed in ten years despite the camera's.
[url]www.abd.org.uk/local/essex.htm[/url]
Its a sad fact that in Essex typically 25% of these deaths are Bikers.
[url]www.abd.org.uk/local/essex.htm[/url]
Its a sad fact that in Essex typically 25% of these deaths are Bikers.
Ride Drive Ltd said:
...One last thing, I believe that by slowing down the motorists quite so often you are de-skilling the driver. What I mean is that they lose the ability to drive quickly on anything but a motorway, so when they do get a rare chance to travel faster on a lesser road they cannot cope with it – and fall off. This theory seems to be supported by the equally vigorous growth, a growth as much as that of speed limits, of the numbers of chevron boards, reflective posts and extra white paint that have appeared on bends and corners. It seems to me that many drivers can no longer cope with driving other than in a straight line and yet their cars are becoming capable of achieving higher and higher speeds.
Totally agree. I think the aim is not only to deskill the task of driving, but deliberately to de-pleasure it.
Totally agree - Julian! 
And yes - Peter - the aim of their game is to make driving as unappealing as possible!
As all on here know - members of my family, including myself, drive through LanCASH£re on regular basis. The policy there is to reduce speed limits on every dual carriageway and safe-ish road and whack up a scam to enforce it!
Result? Accidents in this county - like Essex and elsewhere - are increasing as actual skills "die" through lack of use. OK - so they have a Speed Course and at least the basics of COAST and not SPEED PER SE are addressed in the morning session of this course - or so I am led to believe from the firm's reps who all go invited. But even so - they invite the wrong people - those who err 31-35mph and thus the majority including these safe "slightly retrained" marginals fail to learn anything other than resentment!
Of course decent training - Pass Plus compulsory withing one year of passing L-test - say. Or even overhaul the L-test and lesson content to include basics of car controls and how this affects the overall handling, drive on motorway or nearest fast road as per Germany. Believe basic car mechanics is to become part of theory test and perhaps this is where better understanding of vehicle's controls and handling can be tackled in greater depth in future development
How we get the existing numpties to take to training and assessment is another matter. Perhaps grade the assessments and the higher the grade - the lower the insurance premium?
And yes - Peter - the aim of their game is to make driving as unappealing as possible!
As all on here know - members of my family, including myself, drive through LanCASH£re on regular basis. The policy there is to reduce speed limits on every dual carriageway and safe-ish road and whack up a scam to enforce it!
Result? Accidents in this county - like Essex and elsewhere - are increasing as actual skills "die" through lack of use. OK - so they have a Speed Course and at least the basics of COAST and not SPEED PER SE are addressed in the morning session of this course - or so I am led to believe from the firm's reps who all go invited
. But even so - they invite the wrong people - those who err 31-35mph and thus the majority including these safe "slightly retrained" marginals fail to learn anything other than resentment! Of course decent training - Pass Plus compulsory withing one year of passing L-test - say. Or even overhaul the L-test and lesson content to include basics of car controls and how this affects the overall handling, drive on motorway or nearest fast road as per Germany. Believe basic car mechanics is to become part of theory test and perhaps this is where better understanding of vehicle's controls and handling can be tackled in greater depth in future development
How we get the existing numpties to take to training and assessment is another matter. Perhaps grade the assessments and the higher the grade - the lower the insurance premium?
[quote=sgt^roc]More cameras = more deaths then?[/quote]
That's appears to be the case in Wales and some other places.
Seen this ?
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=102616&f=10&h=0
That's appears to be the case in Wales and some other places.
Seen this ?
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=102616&f=10&h=0
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