Roadside tests for older drivers
Discussion
More 'common sense' from Brunstrom. See below.
He seems unaware the older drivers generally are safer drivers. Ask any insurance company.
Many older drivers will never have played a computer game, which is what this "reaction meter" will likely be, so we could have a situation where a kid of 7 could pass the test but a 55 year old would fail.
Which of these is likely to be the safest driver?
S Times
May 23, 2004
Reaction tests for older drivers
Dipesh Gadher, Transport Correspondent
56b314.jpg
GOVERNMENT scientists have developed a prototype of an "impairment-ometer", a hand-held device which may be used to crack down on elderly motorists who
drive erratically on Britain's roads.
The chief constable in charge of road policing claims the implement may help detect the slow reactions of some older drivers whose bodies are "slowly shutting down". The device will also be used to conduct roadside tests on the reaction times of drivers suspected of being exhausted or under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
The meter is being refined at the Home Office's Police Scientific Development Branch in St Albans, Hertfordshire, and is believed to involve push-button responses to a visual image. Drivers who fail to display quick enough reaction times could face fines or even bans.
"This device is coming down the pipeline to us very soon and it will test whether you are capable of driving or not, for whatever reason," says
Richard Brunstrom, chief constable of North Wales and head of road policing at the Association of Chief Police Officers.
In an interview in the Driving section of today's Sunday Times, Brunstrom adds: "To drive properly, you need to have quick reactions and to be able
to multitask.
"When you get older, your brain cells die and your body is slowly shutting down. Your reaction times are simply not going to be as good. We know tiredness is a problem, but we don't yet know the impact of age. We need to find out."
Brunstrom, who has already courted controversy over his hardline support for speed cameras, has previously described impairment as the biggest factor in road deaths after speeding. He believes that the impairment meter could bring about "a sea change" in road policing.
A driving licence is valid until the age of 70, but must then be renewed every three years. However, there is no requirement for elderly motorists
to resit the driving test.
Earlier this month Mary Limond, 75, a widow and grandmother from Bearsden, Glasgow, was fined £200 and given six penalty points on her licence after
police found her driving along a busy trunk road at little more than 5mph. Limond, who pleaded guilty to careless driving, said she was lost and was
having difficulty seeing at dusk because of a new pair of glasses.
The impairment meter will be tested on motorists in off-road trials in six months' time, but is unlikely to be rolled out across police forces until
2006.
Brunstrom's comments have angered campaigners for older people. A spokeswoman for Help the Aged said: "His comments are very age discriminatory and prejudiced, when actually older drivers are less likely to be drink-drivers, they're less likely to be speeding and in general they have a very good safety record."
He seems unaware the older drivers generally are safer drivers. Ask any insurance company.
Many older drivers will never have played a computer game, which is what this "reaction meter" will likely be, so we could have a situation where a kid of 7 could pass the test but a 55 year old would fail.
Which of these is likely to be the safest driver?
S Times
May 23, 2004
Reaction tests for older drivers
Dipesh Gadher, Transport Correspondent
56b314.jpg
GOVERNMENT scientists have developed a prototype of an "impairment-ometer", a hand-held device which may be used to crack down on elderly motorists who
drive erratically on Britain's roads.
The chief constable in charge of road policing claims the implement may help detect the slow reactions of some older drivers whose bodies are "slowly shutting down". The device will also be used to conduct roadside tests on the reaction times of drivers suspected of being exhausted or under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
The meter is being refined at the Home Office's Police Scientific Development Branch in St Albans, Hertfordshire, and is believed to involve push-button responses to a visual image. Drivers who fail to display quick enough reaction times could face fines or even bans.
"This device is coming down the pipeline to us very soon and it will test whether you are capable of driving or not, for whatever reason," says
Richard Brunstrom, chief constable of North Wales and head of road policing at the Association of Chief Police Officers.
In an interview in the Driving section of today's Sunday Times, Brunstrom adds: "To drive properly, you need to have quick reactions and to be able
to multitask.
"When you get older, your brain cells die and your body is slowly shutting down. Your reaction times are simply not going to be as good. We know tiredness is a problem, but we don't yet know the impact of age. We need to find out."
Brunstrom, who has already courted controversy over his hardline support for speed cameras, has previously described impairment as the biggest factor in road deaths after speeding. He believes that the impairment meter could bring about "a sea change" in road policing.
A driving licence is valid until the age of 70, but must then be renewed every three years. However, there is no requirement for elderly motorists
to resit the driving test.
Earlier this month Mary Limond, 75, a widow and grandmother from Bearsden, Glasgow, was fined £200 and given six penalty points on her licence after
police found her driving along a busy trunk road at little more than 5mph. Limond, who pleaded guilty to careless driving, said she was lost and was
having difficulty seeing at dusk because of a new pair of glasses.
The impairment meter will be tested on motorists in off-road trials in six months' time, but is unlikely to be rolled out across police forces until
2006.
Brunstrom's comments have angered campaigners for older people. A spokeswoman for Help the Aged said: "His comments are very age discriminatory and prejudiced, when actually older drivers are less likely to be drink-drivers, they're less likely to be speeding and in general they have a very good safety record."
He'll be breaking the law in 2006 when the Age Discrimination Act comes into force. In the meantime I would tell Plod to stick their test where the sun don't shine!
Also his comment about brain cells dying in older people is misleading. He is a TWAT!!!!!
>> Edited by volvod5_dude on Sunday 23 May 11:12
Also his comment about brain cells dying in older people is misleading. He is a TWAT!!!!!
>> Edited by volvod5_dude on Sunday 23 May 11:12
xxplod said:
What we need is a mandatory eysight test at e.g. 40, then every 5 years. Easy to administer, minimal cost. Then at 70, rather than just signing a form declaring "I'm fit and well" you should have to have a basic medical. Again, easy to administer with minimal costs.
Eyesight? Kids can have defective eyesight. Eye tests should be mandatory every two years from passing driving test.
France has introduced compulsory medical for drivers aged 65 years and over. Germany, I believe from news reports, is considering this. Before long --- EU legislation, no doubt!
Of course - I am very biased!
but the bloke who hit me was suffered stroke, followed by coronary. He was in 40s at time. So as far as I am concerned (in subjective mode) - medicals and eye tests should be regular and compulsory feature for all motorists - regardless of age. Of course, older drivers will not be "au fait" with computer games. But then 17-18 year old suffering from exam-script fatigue and writer's cramp may fail to click in required response time - because of stiff fingers from all that pen pushing! 
Conclusive evidence of impairment? When you have been stopped by police and asked to push a button under duress - you are hardly likely to score well even if you are seasoned computer game nerd - let alone a computer numpty! Slow reflex tests need to be more stringent than that! (And I should know after my experience when aged 26! - I had complete and thorough tests and checks before getting into car again!)
The "hazard perception" section of driving test is another case in point. Many experienced drivers could fail it because they see hazard developing and click too soon - a software is not programmed to human reason. Have bought one for our eldest - there is a certain knack to it!
The "impairment-ometer" - sounds a bit like a the black box tacho thingy being tested by Bristol/Manchester Unis. This gadget apparently tracks your eye movement and co-ordination whilst you are driving. The boffin in charge proudly says that the gadget will slow, stop the car or call the cops automatically if it thinks you are drunk, drugged or tired. So - if you are in line of traffic, sneeze and your eyes water - it just emergency stops the car? Bloke behind going to anticipate this? Even if he is two second's distant? 
Dick Ed said: "When you get older, your brain cells die" (His apparently are doing at so speedier mph rate than any other official nerd I read about - "Heroin is not very dangerous!!! etc etc" )
Brain cells and human tissue die all the time. Human body replaces them continuously even in old geezers. Active life patterns stimulate brain cell growth. Many old guys and gals lead very active lives - and my parents have certainly grown older "disgracefully!" (They can still hurtle round the track at well over the ton on a track day - and cope with foreign autoroutes and A/bahn 
) I think I would feel safer in car driven by them than I would in one driven by Dick anyway! (They can overtake tractors, horses, without any problem - and without breaking the speed limit - as they are only allowed 3mph over any speed limit back home in the Swiss Alps!)
Dick Ed said:"...reaction times (in older people) are simply not going to be as good"
Perhaps. But again a sweeping generalisation. Significant numbers of the old guys and gals (today's pensioners were 60s trend setters in their hey-day) and they keep fit, go to gyms, work out, keep themselves well-read and well-travelled. A fit 65-70 year old could perhaps trounce a 20 year couch potato physically and mentally.
Dick Ed said: "Impairment is biggest factor in road deaths after speeding"
Yes - and by other road users too - not just motorist of whatever age! - and impairment can be caused by using HEROIN, and other illegals which he claims to be "not very dangerous", and also by misuse of prescribed drugs, and mixing various "over-the-counter" and herbalist cures, even taking too many vitamin tablets can affect human performance. And this impairment can involve a pedestrian or a cyclist in any accident by dangerous and careless behaviour! (ie - they could cause accident by j-walking whilst under influence of whatever - or even by the old geezer who has given up his wheels by acknowledging he is past it!)
What will be his next idea regarding elderly and infirm - euthanasia? The Nazi!
The way our Dick talks - I think his motor-mouth should take this impairment test. It is past its sell-by date!
>> Edited by WildCat on Sunday 23 May 13:35
Conclusive evidence of impairment? When you have been stopped by police and asked to push a button under duress - you are hardly likely to score well even if you are seasoned computer game nerd - let alone a computer numpty! Slow reflex tests need to be more stringent than that! (And I should know after my experience when aged 26! - I had complete and thorough tests and checks before getting into car again!)
The "hazard perception" section of driving test is another case in point. Many experienced drivers could fail it because they see hazard developing and click too soon - a software is not programmed to human reason. Have bought one for our eldest - there is a certain knack to it!
The "impairment-ometer" - sounds a bit like a the black box tacho thingy being tested by Bristol/Manchester Unis. This gadget apparently tracks your eye movement and co-ordination whilst you are driving. The boffin in charge proudly says that the gadget will slow, stop the car or call the cops automatically if it thinks you are drunk, drugged or tired.
So - if you are in line of traffic, sneeze and your eyes water - it just emergency stops the car? Bloke behind going to anticipate this? Even if he is two second's distant? Dick Ed said: "When you get older, your brain cells die" (His apparently are doing at so speedier mph rate than any other official nerd I read about - "Heroin is not very dangerous!!! etc etc" )
Brain cells and human tissue die all the time. Human body replaces them continuously even in old geezers. Active life patterns stimulate brain cell growth. Many old guys and gals lead very active lives - and my parents have certainly grown older "disgracefully!" (They can still hurtle round the track at well over the ton on a track day - and cope with foreign autoroutes and A/bahn ) I think I would feel safer in car driven by them than I would in one driven by Dick anyway! (They can overtake tractors, horses, without any problem - and without breaking the speed limit - as they are only allowed 3mph over any speed limit back home in the Swiss Alps!) Dick Ed said:"...reaction times (in older people) are simply not going to be as good"
Perhaps. But again a sweeping generalisation. Significant numbers of the old guys and gals (today's pensioners were 60s trend setters in their hey-day) and they keep fit, go to gyms, work out, keep themselves well-read and well-travelled. A fit 65-70 year old could perhaps trounce a 20 year couch potato physically and mentally.
Dick Ed said: "Impairment is biggest factor in road deaths after speeding"
Yes - and by other road users too - not just motorist of whatever age!
- and impairment can be caused by using HEROIN, and other illegals which he claims to be "not very dangerous", and also by misuse of prescribed drugs, and mixing various "over-the-counter" and herbalist cures, even taking too many vitamin tablets can affect human performance. And this impairment can involve a pedestrian or a cyclist in any accident by dangerous and careless behaviour! (ie - they could cause accident by j-walking whilst under influence of whatever - or even by the old geezer who has given up his wheels by acknowledging he is past it!) What will be his next idea regarding elderly and infirm - euthanasia? The Nazi!
The way our Dick talks - I think his motor-mouth should take this impairment test. It is past its sell-by date!
>> Edited by WildCat on Sunday 23 May 13:35
Tafia said:
More 'common sense' from Brunstrom.
Hi Taf....you are a one! Give the poor lad a break, he fell on his head at birth......
I thought he'd dumped this one, he was burbling on about it a while ago.
It's a non-starter because the same standards would have to be applied to disabled drivers, and the PC brigade won't stand by and watch them deprived of personal mobility.
"Brunstrom adds: "To drive properly, you need to have quick reactions" - so as to slam on the barkes when you see an illegally parked, disguised scamera van. And, "be able to multitask"- as in watching your speedometer and the child in front simultaneously.
I propose an intelligence test for Chief Constables, what about this:
?
Streaky
I propose an intelligence test for Chief Constables, what about this:
? Streaky
As a 63-year old I have absolutely no objection to taking a complete test now or at any other pre-arranged time in the forseeable future.
But I will not, not now, not ever, take a roadside test at random demanded by some stupid brain-dead Chief Constable and if that meant they take away my UK licence, I'll bloody well drive without one.
Yes, anarchy from the aged!
What right does bloody Brunstron have to pontificate about the driving skills of we pensioners or soon-to-be pensioners. Remember, he's the guy who wants to legalise heroin and other hard drugs so that our children and grandchildren can become addicts more easily.
If some elderly drivers are 'past it' then remove them from the roads in a properly structured manner with a full driving test and a stringent medical, with it all in the open and applied equally to everyone, as it is in aviation.
Don't worry, it won't happen, the 'grey power' voters mean too many lost votes.
However, the arrogance of Brunstrom and his ilk is unbelievable
But I will not, not now, not ever, take a roadside test at random demanded by some stupid brain-dead Chief Constable and if that meant they take away my UK licence, I'll bloody well drive without one.
Yes, anarchy from the aged!
What right does bloody Brunstron have to pontificate about the driving skills of we pensioners or soon-to-be pensioners. Remember, he's the guy who wants to legalise heroin and other hard drugs so that our children and grandchildren can become addicts more easily.
If some elderly drivers are 'past it' then remove them from the roads in a properly structured manner with a full driving test and a stringent medical, with it all in the open and applied equally to everyone, as it is in aviation.
Don't worry, it won't happen, the 'grey power' voters mean too many lost votes.
However, the arrogance of Brunstrom and his ilk is unbelievable
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