Puppy is guarding his food
Discussion
Mac the black lab is 11 weeks old, had him since 8 weeks. Overall he's a very well balanced puppy, socialises well with everything and training is almost too easy (I'm running out of new tricks!)
Food is a bit of an issue though. I remember seeing on a thread here that a labrador is a life support system for a stomach
... But I do feel he's going a bit far!
If you whisper "dinner" from the other side of the house he will teleport to your feet and bunny-hop around you with his back end wagging frantically. After the food is on the floor he does his best sit and waits for the "ok" command. He even knows not to pick up any bits of food I drop on the floor without my approval.
But as soon as his beak hits the bowl he transforms into a little monster! If you go near him he jumps around to the other side of the bowl. If you touch him (even his back-side) he turns into a hoover and sucks up the food so fast it always sounds uncomfortable (burps/hiccups/etc).
We tried taking his bowl away in the middle (just to see what would happen) and he actually did a wee growl.
My new thing is to offer him more interesting (wet) food out of my hand while he's in the middle of eating. At first he would go for my hand in "hoover mode" which was surprisingly sore from such a little puppy, he had absolutely no control over his mouth. Now he is getting a BIT slower, he's learning "gently" and even eats the dry food in his bowl slower when he returns to it. But he is still acting "crazed".
I've had a German Shepherd with extreme dominance type issues before, and we managed to sort that out - but I feel it's a lot easier with an adult dog. "No" is still just a game to Mac!
Are we doing the right thing? Any other ideas to help him relax while eating?
Food is a bit of an issue though. I remember seeing on a thread here that a labrador is a life support system for a stomach
... But I do feel he's going a bit far!If you whisper "dinner" from the other side of the house he will teleport to your feet and bunny-hop around you with his back end wagging frantically. After the food is on the floor he does his best sit and waits for the "ok" command. He even knows not to pick up any bits of food I drop on the floor without my approval.
But as soon as his beak hits the bowl he transforms into a little monster! If you go near him he jumps around to the other side of the bowl. If you touch him (even his back-side) he turns into a hoover and sucks up the food so fast it always sounds uncomfortable (burps/hiccups/etc).
We tried taking his bowl away in the middle (just to see what would happen) and he actually did a wee growl.
My new thing is to offer him more interesting (wet) food out of my hand while he's in the middle of eating. At first he would go for my hand in "hoover mode" which was surprisingly sore from such a little puppy, he had absolutely no control over his mouth. Now he is getting a BIT slower, he's learning "gently" and even eats the dry food in his bowl slower when he returns to it. But he is still acting "crazed".
I've had a German Shepherd with extreme dominance type issues before, and we managed to sort that out - but I feel it's a lot easier with an adult dog. "No" is still just a game to Mac!
Are we doing the right thing? Any other ideas to help him relax while eating?
My Lab/rottwieler cross is 3 now & no differant he has calmed down eating his dry food from his bowl but anything else you give him gets 'hoovered' up. I dont think its a major a problem although when he was very young he ate so fast he made himself sick which seemed to teach him a bit of a lesson 
rasputin said:
Are we doing the right thing? Any other ideas to help him relax while eating?
Growling may or may not be an issue depending upon your point of view. To me it is not acceptable but that's because I want to ensure that I can remove something from their mouth if necessary i.e. what if they pick up something dangerous.However, just eating food quickly, well in part that is likely to be (IMHO) just the fact that he's used to eating with half a dozen other dogs so if he doesn't hoover up the food quickly he won't get any. So it's the Dyson who eats most.
Saying that, one of my dogs will still inhale her food now, and she's four (we ensure all our dogs eat only their own food).
He's not long from the rest of the litter tbh, so he will still have the 'fight for food' in him a little 
However, keep at it, sounds to me like you are doing everything right, and you do need to be able to remove the bowl with food in it, without him growling at you - patience and practice, and he'll learn that it comes back and that he doesn't have to fight for it any more - another trick is to give him 1/2, move the plate & top it up
(which is what I did with my Springer when I was training her - as a working dog, we had to be able to take things out of her mouth)
But, being a Lab, he probably will always 'hoover' the bowl
However, keep at it, sounds to me like you are doing everything right, and you do need to be able to remove the bowl with food in it, without him growling at you - patience and practice, and he'll learn that it comes back and that he doesn't have to fight for it any more - another trick is to give him 1/2, move the plate & top it up
(which is what I did with my Springer when I was training her - as a working dog, we had to be able to take things out of her mouth)But, being a Lab, he probably will always 'hoover' the bowl
Oh, another thing we did was put about 1/10 of the food in the bowl. Then we would continually be adding the rest of the meal to the bowl whilst the dogs ate. That means when our hands went into the bowl the dogs think there is more food coming. We also put in treats at times instead of dog food.
Maybe try one of these to slow the eating down, or you can put a large rock in the bowl so Mac has to eat around it.
http://www.betterware.co.uk/productdetails.aspx?pi...
As for the growling can't offer more than what has been said, not my area of expertise (my colleague is though, I could ask her on Tues). What you are doing sounds reasonable though. Makes you wonder how hard he had to fight for his food when with the breeder
http://www.betterware.co.uk/productdetails.aspx?pi...
As for the growling can't offer more than what has been said, not my area of expertise (my colleague is though, I could ask her on Tues). What you are doing sounds reasonable though. Makes you wonder how hard he had to fight for his food when with the breeder
We had this with our pup - when she was still "fresh" from her litter, she was completely manic throughout her dinner preparation ("bunny hops" sound familiar!), and she absolutely hoovered her food up when it was time to eat - as said before, in puppy litters, especially those that are all fed from the same, massive bowl, the Dyson eats most.
It will calm down though, probably, as he (slowly!) realises that no-one's going to eat his food other than him.
RE the growling; it's a good idea with not putting all his food in the bowl to begin with, and then you top it up while he eats. He then associates your presence near his bowl as a source of good things (more food), rather than the threat that you might eat his food. Should hopefully cure the little growling problem.
It will calm down though, probably, as he (slowly!) realises that no-one's going to eat his food other than him.
RE the growling; it's a good idea with not putting all his food in the bowl to begin with, and then you top it up while he eats. He then associates your presence near his bowl as a source of good things (more food), rather than the threat that you might eat his food. Should hopefully cure the little growling problem.
Had a bit of this with our new Vizsla pup recently, I did a bit of research on it as it had been a while since I had my last dog, it's not a dominance thing, it's known as 'Resource Guarding' there is loads of info on line as to how best to deal with it, and many of the comments above are definitely included in what is suggested.
When it occurred with me, he had knocked some of his meat over the side of his bowl, which I was about to scoop back in with a fork. I dealt with it at the time by removing his bowl and making him wait for it until I was ready to give it back, then giving it back on my terms, which, as always, involves him sitting and waiting until I say he can go to his bowl. Ever since I make a point of stroking his shoulders every now and then when I am passing and letting him know I am there, I have not experienced the problem since. Even the slightest growl would get the same treatment and I am confident that he is well aware of it.
He has a bowl similar to that mentioned above, an anti-gulp bowl, but I honestly can't see that it makes that much difference in slowing his eating, but having said that, to be honest, I haven't tried him with a normal bowl to compare it.
When it occurred with me, he had knocked some of his meat over the side of his bowl, which I was about to scoop back in with a fork. I dealt with it at the time by removing his bowl and making him wait for it until I was ready to give it back, then giving it back on my terms, which, as always, involves him sitting and waiting until I say he can go to his bowl. Ever since I make a point of stroking his shoulders every now and then when I am passing and letting him know I am there, I have not experienced the problem since. Even the slightest growl would get the same treatment and I am confident that he is well aware of it.
He has a bowl similar to that mentioned above, an anti-gulp bowl, but I honestly can't see that it makes that much difference in slowing his eating, but having said that, to be honest, I haven't tried him with a normal bowl to compare it.
To slow him down when eating you can get special bowls, or I put a ball in the food bowl.
Resource guarding - I would not - under any circumstances - be removing the bowl or food from him. This will teach him to resource guard more and more. The growl was an indication that he was not happy with you near his food. If you continue to press him he is likely to escalate as you took no notice of the growl. Instead, as already said, I would only approach him when eating to ADD food to his bowl and then walk off again straightaway. He will then learn that he does not need to resource guard and that your approach means good things, not bad things.
If you want him to give you stuff, rather than just removing it from him (which is again more likely to teach him to resource guard and in any case he is faster than you), swap it for something of higher value. This will teach him that bringing you stuff and giving it to you gets rewarded
Resource guarding - I would not - under any circumstances - be removing the bowl or food from him. This will teach him to resource guard more and more. The growl was an indication that he was not happy with you near his food. If you continue to press him he is likely to escalate as you took no notice of the growl. Instead, as already said, I would only approach him when eating to ADD food to his bowl and then walk off again straightaway. He will then learn that he does not need to resource guard and that your approach means good things, not bad things
.If you want him to give you stuff, rather than just removing it from him (which is again more likely to teach him to resource guard and in any case he is faster than you), swap it for something of higher value. This will teach him that bringing you stuff and giving it to you gets rewarded
Mrs Grumpy said:
Resource guarding - I would not - under any circumstances - be removing the bowl or food from him. This will teach him to resource guard more and more. The growl was an indication that he was not happy with you near his food. If you continue to press him he is likely to escalate as you took no notice of the growl. Instead, as already said, I would only approach him when eating to ADD food to his bowl and then walk off again straightaway. He will then learn that he does not need to resource guard and that your approach means good things, not bad things .
If you want him to give you stuff, rather than just removing it from him (which is again more likely to teach him to resource guard and in any case he is faster than you), swap it for something of higher value. This will teach him that bringing you stuff and giving it to you gets rewarded
This lady is wise .If you want him to give you stuff, rather than just removing it from him (which is again more likely to teach him to resource guard and in any case he is faster than you), swap it for something of higher value. This will teach him that bringing you stuff and giving it to you gets rewarded
Another way of sorting it out, along the same vein, is to make him sit (or whatever your usual routine is for getting him to behave before eating), then put the empty bowl down in front of him, and give him the command to go to it.
When he's established that it's empty, make him sit again, and then pour a small amount of food (not his full dinner) into the bowl while it's on the floor. Then give him the command to go to it. When he's finished, wait until he looks up at you (rather than when he's still snuffling round the floor and food bowl), then pour some more food in. Doing this for a few dinners in a row will start to teach him that you being near his food bowl results in more food, rather than the threat of the food disappearing.
Don't pat him or fuss him, though, not until this little issue has been completely sorted. Baby steps!
And once he's eating without growling, you can do what Mrs Grumpy suggests; swapping things for something of higher value. E.g. letting you take his food bowl away results him in him getting a chicken wing, or a hot dog or something.
guys, for the big chested dogs (GSDs labs etc) it's not healthy to eat really quickly, this can lead to bloat, it's good to have them try and eat as slowly as possible, really...
This case is a pup probably still remembering his litter days etc, but when growing up, a dog shouldn't growl at someone when eating, it is a sign of dominance.
My GSD (19 months old) has started doing this to my wife, and I know why due to other behaviour he has with her.... he does indeed think he's higher in the hierarchy of the pack than her. He doesn't do this to me at all. It's up to her step up and get him to understand that he's not more important than her.
This case is a pup probably still remembering his litter days etc, but when growing up, a dog shouldn't growl at someone when eating, it is a sign of dominance.
My GSD (19 months old) has started doing this to my wife, and I know why due to other behaviour he has with her.... he does indeed think he's higher in the hierarchy of the pack than her. He doesn't do this to me at all. It's up to her step up and get him to understand that he's not more important than her.
tenex said:
Minel said:
He doesn't do this to me at all. It's up to her step up and get him to understand that he's not more important than her.
Spot on. 
Mrs Grumpy said:
Or not.... He will not be growling because he wants to dominate her. Please, please read up about these things before perpetuating the myth.
I guess Cesar Millan must be wrong then 
Why doesnt my dog behave exactly the same with me then?training and dog psychology are very separate things...
Edited by Minel on Monday 18th July 18:38
So in one reply you say training and psychology are very different things, then in the next you say to continue training without looking at the psychology behind it? No wonder your dog is confused, I'm struggling to understand you myself!
So, you keep using your outdated, ineffective, occasionally downright dangerous training methods and I'll stick to mine.
(Oh, and if I may be so bold, I'm not the one with the growling dog here, so you'll forgive me if I completely ignore your advice!)
So, you keep using your outdated, ineffective, occasionally downright dangerous training methods and I'll stick to mine.
(Oh, and if I may be so bold, I'm not the one with the growling dog here, so you'll forgive me if I completely ignore your advice!)
Edited by Lippitt on Monday 18th July 19:03
Minel said:
guys, for the big chested dogs (GSDs labs etc) it's not healthy to eat really quickly, this can lead to bloat, it's good to have them try and eat as slowly as possible, really...
You can buy food stands which the bowls go in. That, in theory at least, helps reduce the chances of bloat.Gassing Station | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff