Hennesy Venom vs Lotus Exige

Hennesy Venom vs Lotus Exige

Author
Discussion

the ronin

Original Poster:

1,056 posts

150 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
So I was having a nice chat on http://www.teamspeed.com/forums/superca ... video.html
and Hennessey sent me a PM....

So I had this in my in box this morning... I hate PMs

hey ronin
i can see that you do not understand our car. but why bash something you dont understand or have never seen in person? are you in socal? if so then i invite you to come and see the car in person and i would be glad to tell you more about it. i am here in our lake forest shop all week. just let me know if you want to come by and take a look.

john hennessey

It's true I don't understand your car, why take a Lotus and try and make it something it's not...It's still a Lotus.

Dude why not bring your Lotus up to LA. and we can go for a little cruise in the canyons since you are in So.Ca. we can do a little side by side comparason like David and Goliath in the real world.
I'm sure that will give you something to use for marketing...and something for me to smile about....Bring a film crew and let's have some fun in the real world.
Do you think that thing can stay on it's own side of the road ?


This could be fun, now who wants to bet it never happens ? wink

Scuffers

20,887 posts

213 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
can't see anything happening to be honest, not even sure that cars in the US yet?

(seems funny that the cars are actually built at Silverstone from donor Elise's, not really sure apart from money and the engine kit what Hennesy's input was?)

If they do take you up Frank, I'll volunteer to drive yours head to head!


the ronin

Original Poster:

1,056 posts

150 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
Scuffie I just heard it's down here in Socal and was out at the gold chain poser meet in on Saturday..

Dude if they want to do a track test....come on over and lets have some fun. I'll put the kettle on.biggrin

the ronin

Original Poster:

1,056 posts

150 months

Monday 25th July 2011
quotequote all
Oh well I was banned from Teamspeed.com for not kissin the ass of a vendor..
It seems Hennessey didn't like to be called out in public...

No one dare ask for proof from these ripoffs... I guess there is no real world comparison of a $850,000.00 salvaged Lotus and my rocket pig. It's a shame.

matc

4,660 posts

146 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2011
quotequote all
Have you seen the car?....NO!

Have you driven it?....NO!

Are you in the market to buy one?....NO!

Then why go to the bother of slating it to anyone that will listen? I really don't understand this mentality. The guy has offered for you to visit his workshop and look round his car and your response?....You wanna race?!

Without meaning to offend any more than you have to the owner of Hennesy, you sound like a child who's jealous of someones bigger toy.

Rather than berate small companies pushing the envelope when it comes to producing cars, why not respect what they're doing, even if it's not to your taste; if you don't like it don't comment.
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Sam_68

9,939 posts

184 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2011
quotequote all
the ronin said:
john hennessey

It's true I don't understand your car, why take a Lotus and try and make it something it's not...It's still a Lotus.
And there we have it, folks: final and definitive proof that the Yanks just don't get the concept of irony. biggrin

Arun_D

2,115 posts

134 months

Wednesday 3rd August 2011
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No offence, but you make yourself sound like a proper child.

I was personally very impressed with the Venom GT when I saw it and spoke to Mr Henessey. Not sure he'd honestly be bothered about your car.

doggydave

329 posts

114 months

Thursday 4th August 2011
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I suppose this is the 21st century version of a dual. Instead of pistols at dawn it is Lotus in the canyon. Would love to see both cars in a back to back track run with an independant driver.

spoed

97 posts

107 months

Friday 5th August 2011
quotequote all
matc said:
Have you seen the car?....NO!

Have you driven it?....NO!

Are you in the market to buy one?....NO!

Then why go to the bother of slating it to anyone that will listen? I really don't understand this mentality. The guy has offered for you to visit his workshop and look round his car and your response?....You wanna race?!

Without meaning to offend any more than you have to the owner of Hennesy, you sound like a child who's jealous of someones bigger toy.

Rather than berate small companies pushing the envelope when it comes to producing cars, why not respect what they're doing, even if it's not to your taste; if you don't like it don't comment.
Thanks, you took the words right out of my mouth.
I just want to add, that companies like Hennesy make the choices more exciting. And thats what its all about!!

the ronin

Original Poster:

1,056 posts

150 months

Sunday 7th August 2011
quotequote all
Hennesy is a know rip off artist here in the states and he wouldn't even come up for a little canyon drive to show me that his hunk a junk could even stay in it's own lane in the canyons...
He claime 1200 hp but he has yet to show a real time dyno video, only the car makin noise no dyno screen to back up his claims..

Here is my exige today on the dyno with 104*f ambient temps.... 615 whp and 422 ft tq. from a 1.8 ltr 2ZZ Toyoya engine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jOakcr92W0

2,150 lbs 708 BHP readit

Sam_68

9,939 posts

184 months

Sunday 7th August 2011
quotequote all
the ronin said:
Hennesy is a know rip off artist here in the states and he wouldn't even come up for a little canyon drive to show me that his hunk a junk could even stay in it's own lane in the canyons...
Frank, you've been banned from this website once already.

May I respectfully suggest that you may wish to read the PistonHeads rules, terms and consitions.

Particularly the bits with the word 'defamatory' in them.

kazste

3,970 posts

137 months

Sunday 7th August 2011
quotequote all
The problem with your statements is that nothing which is not a necessity can be a rip off, as if this were the case for everyone then no sales would be made and no one would be ripped off. I understand you prefer your car but as a petrolhead I would love an invitation to take a look at the car, it would also then allow me to make an informed decision on the quality of their project.
For me your car is similar in as much as any tuned car is changing it into something it was not designed to be, this is neither good or bad as comes to personal taste but you appear to be having a go at them for doing it with no sense of irony.

Not that you should care what I think, but I don't want this to come across as an attack on you as I enjoy reading about your car and watching you YouTube videos and hope you keep this up.

the ronin

Original Poster:

1,056 posts

150 months

Sunday 7th August 2011
quotequote all
Stating facts as to lost law suits is not defamatory last time I had to point that out....

I'm not saying he ripped off the Lotus design but his customers in the past...Do a google search and read up..

He claims that his Exige is only 10% Lotus and yet it is as much Lotus as is my Exige.

Here in the states you can't just remove the chassis ID numbers and add your own to claim it is not what it once was sold as...
Seriously it's a slavaged titled Lotus not a Hennesy.

I have a Lotus not some poorly designed wannabe $1,000,000.00 supercar that looks as if it would snap in two on a rough road.
From the videos you can see how porly it is tuned with smoke billowing out as it runs by..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB5RzLzY54U&fea...

Seriously this is supposed to be a $1,000,000.00 supercar....eek

Edited by the ronin on Sunday 7th August 14:16

GTRene

11,217 posts

163 months

Sunday 7th August 2011
quotequote all
its just a very nice car that Hennesy Venom GT,
why does the mans past every-time has to come up, its here about that car not that mans personal life!
also, that car is far away from a standard Exige and I guess its comes with the Hennesy name/type?
so although it uses some Lotus stuff who cares?
its about the car!
you can buy it, you don't have too!
Your car is very nice too, leave it there.

the ronin

Original Poster:

1,056 posts

150 months

Sunday 7th August 2011
quotequote all
I just thought it would be fun to see what my bumfk special could do against a $1,000,000.00 supercar in the real world...

And I'm proud to say I own a Lotus...

the ronin

Original Poster:

1,056 posts

150 months

Sunday 7th August 2011
quotequote all
Would you buy a car from this guy ?

Re: Hennessey 705 HP Corvette ZR1 for 2010
From Autoweek:

Hennessey's Vipers are fast, but lawsuits say he serves them up too slowly. (Photo by Mark Vaughn)
Ninety-eight percent of his customers love him, John Hennessey says. But a few hate him and some have sued. Hennessey Motorsports in Houston specializes in tuning Vipers, adding more power to what is already one of the most powerful cars in the world. Hennessey’s Vipers have been featured in this and many other magazines and the cars he has sent to us and to other media were impressive performers. Hennessey presents himself well, projecting an image of the consummate Texas good ol’ boy whose reassuring conversational style and howyewdoin’ demeanor put customers at ease. People believe they will get what he says he’ll give them. But not all people do.

According to a lawsuit filed in Salt Lake City, Utah resident Taig Stewart sent his Viper GTS to Hennessey last May for an engine upgrade to 1100 hp along with several other modifications. For that he wire-transferred $142,500 to Hennessey. The lawsuit states the parties agreed the car would be done by mid-July 2001. As of press time the car was still sitting under a tarp in Hennessey’s shop in Houston. Or most of the car, anyway. Stewart’s suit claims Hennessey sold the car’s engine, transmission, wheels, tires and hood. The suit seeks return of the money, the Viper and “no less than $1 million” in punitive damages.

Hennessey claims he’s just slow in getting the work done.

“My side of the story is we’re planning on finishing his car and planning on giving him everything that he paid for,” said Hennessey. As for the parts being sold, “That’s totally false. We’ve got all his parts in the shop except the hood and he wanted to do a lightweight hood.”

Stewart is not the first unsatisfied customer. The longer we dug the more dissatisfaction we found. Here’s a sampling:

On Nov. 14 a New Jersey court entered a final judgement of $133,674 against Hennessey on behalf of Viper owner Gary Dan for a botched conversion.

William Walters said he is out over $22,000 after shipping his Corvette to Hennessey for a head and cam package that was never done; he did have five rods bent and a head gasket damaged on the dyno in Hennessey’s shop during an experiment Hennessey tried with nitrous oxide.

Jerry Johnson said he had to file suit in Placer County Court in California to straighten out registration and engine computer problems on a Viper he bought from Hennessey. n Jon Belinkie said he loves the changes made to his Viper but had to sue in his home state of Maryland, then register the judgement in Texas, to recover overcharges Hennessey made on his American Express card.

Rick Ryan said he had to hound Hennessey for eight months by long distance from Marietta, Georgia, to put the proper wing and stripes on his Viper.

Mark Lublin said he sent his Viper cylinder heads to Hennessey for new valves but when the heads came back he found the “new” valves were actually used; a cam that was delivered to Lublin in a Hennessey box turned out to be a stock Chrysler cam. Lublin was finally refunded $5,715 from American Express but only after nine months of disputing the charge; and he got no money from Hennessey.

Bruce Iannatuono said he ordered $8,500 worth of Hennessey parts for his mechanic in Baltimore to install but was only able to use two-thirds of what was shipped, and then only after haranguing Hennessey for six months on an order that was originally promised in five weeks.

Most of the complaints come from outside Texas. Hennessey, some said, tends to take better care of local customers.

“If you were out of state, man you were fair game,” said Kyle Kent, a former employee at Hennessey Motorsports. When an out-of-state car came in it was sometimes parted out, with the wheels, tires and whatever else looked good going to other cars waiting to be finished or sold outright, according to Kent and others inside Hennessey Motorsports. Then Hennessey would call the car’s owner and try to sell him an upgraded kit. If the customer balked, Hennessey would take parts from other cars in the shop, or just let the job sit.

Kent described one typical disassembly on an out-of-state Viper. “The motor and transmission went into a Durango John was putting together, the brakes went to someone else, the hood went to a guy in Ohio, the rear bumper to South Carolina, man you name it. We had multiple cars like that.”

Another common practice was putting stock parts on what was supposed to be an upgraded car.

“One customer spent $130,000 to $140,000 and that guy thought he had purchased a Venom 650R package which he thought came with the stroker motor,” Kent said. “John told him he was getting a stroker. He was just getting heads and cams.”

Hennessey denies any wrongdoing.

“I’ve got probably 3000 customers,” he said. “I’ve built over 300 cars and out of that I’ve had a handful of people that I’ve had some sort of a delivery problem with and I’ve had some of them who have sued me. So is that some sort of a trend or is that par for the course?”

From Car & Driver:
"There is, of course, no place in the world where talk is cheaper than on an Internet message board, and a few lurid posts hardly constitute proof of wrongdoing. So I went to the Web site of the Houston Better Business Bureau (www. bbbhou.org) and searched for Hennessey Motorsports. The BBB reported 12 complaints filed against Hennessey in the past 36 months, of which seven were in the past year. Of the 12 complaints, only one was listed as resolved. To put this performance in context, I ran checks with the local BBBs of every participant in our Supercar Challenge. Just one other complaint turned up, against AutoThority, and it was described as "resolved."

Then I went to Dun & Bradstreet, the financial research firm, where for $117 I purchased a comprehensive report on Hennessey Motorsports. For comparison, I also purchased a report on the well-known Lingenfelter Performance Engineering. The report indicated that LPE was financially sound, with no liens, lawsuits, or judgments pending against it. In contrast, the Hennessey report revealed that courts have four times ruled against the company and that there are 10 lawsuits currently in various stages and three liens. The D&B report also provided a "Financial Stress National Percentile" rating, measured on a 1-to-100 scale, with 100 being the best possible score. Hennessey's company had a rating of one. (LPE had a 79.) "

Buyer stories (Note that Hennessey's name is in the word filter on Viper forums)
Five years ago I bought a brand new 2001 Viper GTS and sent it to John [******]--along with $142,500--to build what I hoped would be one hell of a Viper. Many of you will remember that fiasco. I won’t revisit any of that history here, not because I have any moral or legal compunctions restraining me from doing so but because I lost interest in fighting this fight quite a long time ago.

So why this post? Simple. To tell the rest of the story and more importantly to give credit to a couple of exceptional guys who took up the fight for me and who fought until the end without any expectation of a reward other than the feeling that comes from helping someone out. Also, since expressing that gratitude here wouldn’t make much sense without at least a brief conclusion to the story of my experiences with John [******], I need to make that happen. Along with the good, of course, there were a few other guys who deserve credit of a very different nature too, but they know who they are so we’ll just let that pile go unstepped-in.

Just to recap my story, I sent $142,500 and a brand new Viper to John [******] after reading Motor Trend’s gushing article on [******]’s Venom 800 in April 2001. It took three years to get my Viper back from [******] in a “dynoable,” if not “drivable” condition. In fact it ran just long enough to make a strong run on the dyno in Salt Lake City in September of 2003 (for which I was not present) before the first turbo blew 50 miles later. The car was also missing over $85,000 of parts and upgrades I’d paid for two years earlier: Brembos, Penske suspension, HREs, Quaife, etc. Without going into specifics, a legal “settlement” was reached which stipulated that I was to receive the missing parts over the course of the next several months with the promise that the car would be tuned to actually run.

Well, to make a very long story very, very short, I spent a total of $315,000 (the new Viper and [******]’s fee plus the attorney’s take of 33% on everything recovered from [******]--including the car itself--plus miscellaneous expenses) for a Viper made up of parts from at least two different cars that wouldn’t even start. I confess, at this point I simply gave up.

But that wasn’t the end of the story.

Most of you know a guy named Bill (aka MANA) who can frequently be found wherever there are exhaust fumes on the net. Most of you also know, or have heard about a tuner named Jason Heffner (8.75/168 MPH). Simply stated, if it wasn’t for the collaborative efforts of Bill and Jason, I still wouldn’t have a Viper that ran today.

I met Bill in 2002 not long after I realized things weren’t quite as they should be in Houston. After receiving an anonymous message on my cell phone urging me to “look into the forums and call [******] again about your car” I began delving into the Viper and other forums. After I’d read a few of Bill’s posts on the Corvette forum, I sent him an e-mail with my story. I didn’t expect anything, it just felt good to get it off my chest. It wasn’t like I wanted to talk to my wife about it yet, after all… Bill and I have been close friends ever since. Every single time progress was made in trying to get information about my car from [******], Bill was behind it. He was the reason I even got the car back three years later. Bill proved to be an exceptionally loyal friend who never gave up the fight, even long after I had. I owe him a hell of a lot and I won’t ever forget it.

Some months after I’d given up on the car altogether, I got a call from Jason Heffner. I’d heard of Heffner’s cars and Bill spoke highly of him but I didn’t know too much about him other than that. Jason told me Bill had talked to him about my Viper and he wondered if I would be willing to send the car out to him to work with. He didn’t talk about money, he just said maybe he could help with the car. I sent it to him (plug for Gary Almond here--Thanks Gary!) and assured Jason that he could have it as long as he wanted it since I’d had it for five years already without it running for more than a few hours.

Again, without going into the details of what he found under the hood, Jason worked and worked and worked. He called and updated me consistently every step of the way. In the end there was a lot of work that had to be done, parts to be replaced and/or modified (the second turbo was also blown) to make it all work but the day came when he called and told me the car was finished. He felt bad that it wasn’t perfect but he said it ran “pretty well” and that he’d done everything he could do. A week later, Gary Almond delivered it to me and I can honestly say it didn’t look like the car I’d sent him. Not only had he fixed the engine and turbo system and installed all braided SS lines instead of the rubber ones it had came back to me with but he’d added an AEM EMS, installed Penske suspension (one of the many things I never received from [******] despite the legal settlement) and had the whole car wet sanded because he felt the paint “just wasn’t quite right.” When I asked him what I owed him he just asked if I’d feel comfortable covering his cost for the AEM and the Penskes. He would not take money for anything else and insisted that he just wanted to help out.

That was six months ago now. The Viper runs like I imagined it would when I sent it to John [******] five years ago. To say I think Jason Heffner is an honorable man who went way beyond the call of duty to help out a guy he didn’t even know is an understatement. Hell, he went way beyond what anyone else even offered to do for me for substantial additional money. And his work--including that on a turbo system he can’t vouch for--is exceptional. Needless to say I have nothing but the highest praise for Jason Heffner.

I realize that if I had hung out on the forums instead of just trusting the car mags before my adventures with John [******] that I probably wouldn’t have the experiences I did. But hindsight is 20/20 and I’m not complaining. What I can’t let get swept under the rug, however, is the recognition and credit for the way Bill and Jason have fought in my corner, not because they had to or were paid to, but because that is just the way they are. I said in the beginning there were many players in this story; many who turned out to be self serving, deceptive, or even downright nasty, those who turned out to be genuinely interested and helpful, and a few who were extraordinary in giving their support and giving of their time and effort with no hope for reward or compensation other than my friendship.

In any event, that’s the rest of the story. I felt it was necessary for me to finally clear the air about what really happened and to give credit to those who worked to make things right for me--especially to Bill and Jason. I’m very grateful.

Taig Stewart


More at this link: http://forzacentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170...
______________
There's no apology for stupid, boy!

zippyprorider

714 posts

145 months

Sunday 7th August 2011
quotequote all
the ronin said:
Hennesy is a know rip off artist here in the states and he wouldn't even come up for a little canyon drive to show me that his hunk a junk could even stay in it's own lane in the canyons...
He claime 1200 hp but he has yet to show a real time dyno video, only the car makin noise no dyno screen to back up his claims..

Here is my exige today on the dyno with 104*f ambient temps.... 615 whp and 422 ft tq. from a 1.8 ltr 2ZZ Toyoya engine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jOakcr92W0

2,150 lbs 708 BHP readit
having read your posts before ronin and seen the video of your car, realy dont understand the aparant hatred for a company you have never used, just leave it alown and accept your car and hennesy car are very diffrent

the ronin

Original Poster:

1,056 posts

150 months

Monday 8th August 2011
quotequote all
No hatred towards Hennesy, I'd just like to see what it can do in the real world, like a real dyno video and more than just a lap around a smooth track..
All his claims and nothing to really back them up..

Here is his dyno video anyone see a screen to show proof of claimed power ? eek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H78dqGzSXeg&fea...

Tell me this sounds like a $1,000,000.00 supercar.. laughlaughlaugh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBQKNvmP-6s&fea...

He can't even get it to idle smoothly instead it sounds like some junk yard leftover.... Seriously its a $1,000,000.00 joke and he's right it isn't a Lotus...

Maybe I should sell my car for $1,000,000.00 at least it runs perfecty with documented proof of power... 707 BHP 2,100 lbs.?


Edited by the ronin on Monday 8th August 00:47

Arun_D

2,115 posts

134 months

Monday 8th August 2011
quotequote all
I totally get all the stuff you've put on here about lawsuits etc, Im sure there's a lot of negative press out there, just don't understand why you're going through considerable effort to find it all and post this evidence against Hennesey here in the first place.

I mean it's interesting, I guess, but I'm not sure whether it's in many people's interest here how potentially shonky his past work may or may not have been. Just saying for all the effort and time posting on here, you might just be better off blasting through the canyons in that Exige of yours!

PascalBuyens

2,868 posts

221 months

Monday 8th August 2011
quotequote all
You're only putting yourself in a bad daylight with your reaction, IMO, Frank.

True, Hennessey may have had some issues delivering cars on time in the past, and some customers will take the effort of sueing him for that. But I don't think he'd still be in business after so many years, if everything he did was bad.

As for his Venom, I believe the first customer cars are already delivered. It is indeed based on a Lotus Exige, but it definitely is a different car in itself, in a whole other league then an Exige if you'd ask me.

Personally, I'd have taken his invitation, which manufacturer would take the effort to invite you in person to see for yourself? To me, and sorry I have to say this, you make a bit of a cock out of yourself with your reaction... If you'd have gone and seen him, driven the car, and THEN decided that it's a piece of crap, then I'd be fine with it. Now you're just either showing jealousy or making clear that you're living in some kind of dream world that your and only your Exige is the best car in the world, because you've been modifying it a lot.

Shame, because, if you'd compare the two cars next to one another, I'd love to see what the findings are...