Ending Benefits Dependency.:Restore our Countries Wealth.
Discussion
I am starting this post because I really believe that the country is in dire economic straights and that these are largely fueled by our current benefits for all largess approach.
I am in favour of a benefits system where individuals WHO HAVE PAID INTO THE SYSTEM can be protected for a reasonable period of time if unemployed or unfit. I am NOT in favour of lifestyle chioces such as being a Drunk, a Drug addict, Grossly Overweight or just plain idle entitles you to a lifetime of being supported by the rest of the UK.
The current system is so hopelessly abused and misused that whole sections of society are becoming a burden to the state whilst we import immigrants by the million that do the work that these lazy scroungers lounge prefer to be unavailable to undertake.
This is utterly corrosive and IMO totally unsustainable.
It has to be stopped. As the first real step in addressing our PSBR defecit.
Now how do we get some effective action from government to end this nonsense?
That is my question.
I am in favour of a benefits system where individuals WHO HAVE PAID INTO THE SYSTEM can be protected for a reasonable period of time if unemployed or unfit. I am NOT in favour of lifestyle chioces such as being a Drunk, a Drug addict, Grossly Overweight or just plain idle entitles you to a lifetime of being supported by the rest of the UK.
The current system is so hopelessly abused and misused that whole sections of society are becoming a burden to the state whilst we import immigrants by the million that do the work that these lazy scroungers lounge prefer to be unavailable to undertake.
This is utterly corrosive and IMO totally unsustainable.
It has to be stopped. As the first real step in addressing our PSBR defecit.
Now how do we get some effective action from government to end this nonsense?
That is my question.
You are largely correct except there is one problem, What will everyone do ? there are no-where near enough jobs to go round, the UK does little in the way of manufacturing and we are not really set up to compete with the cheaper labour in the east.
It's a piss poor situation to be in but we in the UK have expectations high wages.
We cannot compete unless we lower our expectations and open some factories
It's a piss poor situation to be in but we in the UK have expectations high wages.
We cannot compete unless we lower our expectations and open some factories
Getragdogleg said:
You are largely correct except there is one problem, What will everyone do ? there are no-where near enough jobs to go round, the UK does little in the way of manufacturing and we are not really set up to compete with the cheaper labour in the east.
It's a piss poor situation to be in but we in the UK have expectations high wages.
We cannot compete unless we lower our expectations and open some factories
Problem is of the c5million out of work there are only 600k jobs ie of the unemployed there are 5 going for every job which only one can get. In addition there are the ones which could work but are not captured within the 3millipn unemployed. It's a piss poor situation to be in but we in the UK have expectations high wages.
We cannot compete unless we lower our expectations and open some factories
So what do we do??? We need to create jobs which in a recession is a big ask.
I agree in principle but I am not sure what we can do about the following people:
1) young adults with no qualifications and 5 years' of unemployment on their CV.
2) people who put metal and ink in their faces and have little skills/experience/qualifications so would scare the average person in the Tesco queue.
3) people who have been out of work for so long that their CV shows a massive gap and no amount of skills/experience/qualifications will get them into work.
In other words, the unemployable who no self-respecting employer would touch. If we just cut all payments, crime will go up and prisons will have to be built (£100k per prisoner is the current rough cost).
IIRC you run an accountancy firm. Would you employ either of these people?
1) young adults with no qualifications and 5 years' of unemployment on their CV.
2) people who put metal and ink in their faces and have little skills/experience/qualifications so would scare the average person in the Tesco queue.
3) people who have been out of work for so long that their CV shows a massive gap and no amount of skills/experience/qualifications will get them into work.
In other words, the unemployable who no self-respecting employer would touch. If we just cut all payments, crime will go up and prisons will have to be built (£100k per prisoner is the current rough cost).
IIRC you run an accountancy firm. Would you employ either of these people?
People don't work or are unwilling to do menial jobs for little pay because they know they can get a decent whack from the state, root cause.
On that basis, I'm not so sure it's a quite a level playing field in comparing the UK's feckless to immigrants who come here with the sole purpose of actually finding work. Never mind the fact that, depending on where they're from, an immigrant might gladly stand in a field picking berries for minimum wage, this being 10 times what they could earn in the "old country" etc.
On that basis, I'm not so sure it's a quite a level playing field in comparing the UK's feckless to immigrants who come here with the sole purpose of actually finding work. Never mind the fact that, depending on where they're from, an immigrant might gladly stand in a field picking berries for minimum wage, this being 10 times what they could earn in the "old country" etc.
RemainAllHoof said:
I agree in principle but I am not sure what we can do about the following people:
1) young adults with no qualifications and 5 years' of unemployment on their CV.
2) people who put metal and ink in their faces and have little skills/experience/qualifications so would scare the average person in the Tesco queue.
3) people who have been out of work for so long that their CV shows a massive gap and no amount of skills/experience/qualifications will get them into work.
In other words, the unemployable who no self-respecting employer would touch. If we just cut all payments, crime will go up and prisons will have to be built (£100k per prisoner is the current rough cost).
IIRC you run an accountancy firm. Would you employ either of these people?
They'd be ok working on a production line pressing buttons, would enable us to have a cheap Western manufacturing base then. 1) young adults with no qualifications and 5 years' of unemployment on their CV.
2) people who put metal and ink in their faces and have little skills/experience/qualifications so would scare the average person in the Tesco queue.
3) people who have been out of work for so long that their CV shows a massive gap and no amount of skills/experience/qualifications will get them into work.
In other words, the unemployable who no self-respecting employer would touch. If we just cut all payments, crime will go up and prisons will have to be built (£100k per prisoner is the current rough cost).
IIRC you run an accountancy firm. Would you employ either of these people?
However, I think the OP is talking about reducing benefits down to the bare minimum so a benefits lifestyle is not possible? How spongers can afford fags and booze by living off the taxpayer is unbelievable!
nm231 said:
What about sending home many of the immigrants (illegal or otherwise) that have appeared here over the last few years. Surely that will free up many jobs and money as there will be less immigrants on benefits aswell.
Well yes that would be nice, but, you're forgetting the HRA act that protects every scrounger etcHappy82 said:
They'd be ok working on a production line pressing buttons, would enable us to have a cheap Western manufacturing base then.
However, I think the OP is talking about reducing benefits down to the bare minimum so a benefits lifestyle is not possible? How spongers can afford fags and booze by living off the taxpayer is unbelievable!
I for one will be cutting down on booze if my child tax credits aren't renewed However, I think the OP is talking about reducing benefits down to the bare minimum so a benefits lifestyle is not possible? How spongers can afford fags and booze by living off the taxpayer is unbelievable!
First get rid of the obsession with means testing. Means testing creates beauaucracy, creates the poverty trap and actively works against personal improvement.
Benefits can be restricted by:
Secondly make job club compulsory 9-5 six days a week for anyone claiming while unemployed. Missed hours equals lost payments. A creche will be provided, a sectretary will be provided. No one will care if you turn up and do nothing but turn up you will if want benefits until the day you reach state pension age.
Sorted.
Benefits can be restricted by:
- one off payments for given situations
- fixed rate payments for given situations
- life time limits on payments
- making payments related to how much you paid in
- a citizens income, i.e. one fixed payment that every adult gets from age 18 to death.
- any combination of the above
Secondly make job club compulsory 9-5 six days a week for anyone claiming while unemployed. Missed hours equals lost payments. A creche will be provided, a sectretary will be provided. No one will care if you turn up and do nothing but turn up you will if want benefits until the day you reach state pension age.
Sorted.
Willie Dee said:
Steffan said:
I am starting this post because I really believe that the country is in dire economic straights and that these are largely fueled by our current benefits for all largess approach.
Can you back this up with any figures?To be fair that includes pensions etc, and there are a fair few benefits that even the hardest right winger would be hard pushed to stop
nm231 said:
What about sending home many of the immigrants (illegal or otherwise) that have appeared here over the last few years. Surely that will free up many jobs and money as there will be less immigrants on benefits aswell.
You mean get rid of the ones willing to work? They can be very hard working people doing both professional roles and also jobs the average chav feels is beneath them.I agree that the only people getting benefits should be those that have paid in, but if people are worried about the workshy starving to death then fair enough we'll give them benefits too - but only in exchange for community work; picking up rubbish, cleaning off graffiti, filling potholes etc. We could have the cleanest country in the world.
Dixie68 said:
I agree that the only people getting benefits should be those that have paid in, but if people are worried about the workshy starving to death then fair enough we'll give them benefits too - but only in exchange for community work; picking up rubbish, cleaning off graffiti, filling potholes etc. We could have the cleanest country in the world.
I think this suggestion has real possibilities.No reasonable person wants to see any individual in the UK starving or homeless.
But if we go on as we are we are all going to be in serious economic Dodo.
The country cannot afford (ie produce enough wealth) to allow this madness to continue.
We need to put the onus on every unemployed person to find a job. It is NOT their concern at the moment. We also need to stop child benefits beyond the second child. Otherwise no family with six or more children ever needs to work.
Having children cannot be a means of support. Its a lifestyle choice but why should everybody else subsidise the producers?
Unless we start making difficult and painful reductions in the PSBR we will be facing bankruptcy as a nation. This is NOT a sustainable system it will ruin the country. We must act. Question is how.
cymtriks said:
Secondly make job club compulsory 9-5 six days a week for anyone claiming while unemployed. Missed hours equals lost payments. A creche will be provided, a sectretary will be provided. No one will care if you turn up and do nothing but turn up you will if want benefits until the day you reach state pension age.
You are going to need some very large building to host all those job clubs!Dixie68 said:
I agree that the only people getting benefits should be those that have paid in, but if people are worried about the workshy starving to death then fair enough we'll give them benefits too - but only in exchange for community work; picking up rubbish, cleaning off graffiti, filling potholes etc. We could have the cleanest country in the world.
There are (some) people already doing those things for a living. If there is work that needs doing then people should be paid the going rate for doing it.I think a fundamental change of approach is needed.
I agree that a requirement to join community schemes or similar work requirement schemes have something to offer.
But we must redress the problem of voluntary unemployment.
Many individuals in the UK are choosing a lifestyle that can only be sustained if they are on benefits. Does the average taxpayer realise that Drug Addicts and Alcoholics are supported by the welfare system. I do not think so.
We face a stark choice as a Nation.
Either we find a way of reducing welfare costs or we gradually sink into national bankruptcy. Otherwise the bill will get bigger and bigger more and more people will not bother with work and the whole nation will suffer accordingly. We are NOT in an equilibrium as a Nation we spend more than we earn. This has to change. Welfare payments must be reduced.
Quite simply we cannot have it all. If we want economic stability we must make the changes necessary to produce it. Humanitarian aid is laudable but we are already beyond the point of no return unless we change the system now.
I agree that a requirement to join community schemes or similar work requirement schemes have something to offer.
But we must redress the problem of voluntary unemployment.
Many individuals in the UK are choosing a lifestyle that can only be sustained if they are on benefits. Does the average taxpayer realise that Drug Addicts and Alcoholics are supported by the welfare system. I do not think so.
We face a stark choice as a Nation.
Either we find a way of reducing welfare costs or we gradually sink into national bankruptcy. Otherwise the bill will get bigger and bigger more and more people will not bother with work and the whole nation will suffer accordingly. We are NOT in an equilibrium as a Nation we spend more than we earn. This has to change. Welfare payments must be reduced.
Quite simply we cannot have it all. If we want economic stability we must make the changes necessary to produce it. Humanitarian aid is laudable but we are already beyond the point of no return unless we change the system now.
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