Fail? For THAT? Are you sure?
Discussion
Girlfriend did her second test this morning, and failed.
The reasons;
3 strikes for inappropriate gear
1 major fault for not using indicators when necessary
I think both of these are very contentious. Here's why;
Gear selection. 2 of those times were for not chaning up to 4th early enough. Examiner said she laboured for too long in 3rd and that the revs had reached 5000rpm which in his words "should never happen".
Inidicators. What happend was this. She was going down a quiet road with intermittent parked cars on the left hand side, being followed some way behind by a Merc. Instructor says "I'd like you to pull over to the side of the road at the next safe place." She carries on a bit and, seeing a large gap between 2 of the said parked cars, checks her mirror, indicates, pulls over (close to the car infront so as to leave room behind for the Merc to pull in to should he need, in the case of oncoming cars). When she pulls up, the indicator flicks off, she puts the handbrake on, car in neutral and waits. The Merc pulls in behind her and sits there for 10-15 seconds before pulling around her.
Instructor said this was an automatic fail as she should've put her indicator on again to tell the Merc she was parked up.
I think the gear selection one is a bit 50:50. The indicator one, to me, would be just a courtesy - if the guy in the Merc was paying attention he would've seen her indicate and, naturally, assume she was not about to pull out around the parked cars.
Anyone care to comment? Is there an appeal process? Anyone ever done it?
>>> Edited by neil.b on Thursday 10th June 13:51
The reasons;
3 strikes for inappropriate gear
1 major fault for not using indicators when necessary
I think both of these are very contentious. Here's why;
Gear selection. 2 of those times were for not chaning up to 4th early enough. Examiner said she laboured for too long in 3rd and that the revs had reached 5000rpm which in his words "should never happen".
Inidicators. What happend was this. She was going down a quiet road with intermittent parked cars on the left hand side, being followed some way behind by a Merc. Instructor says "I'd like you to pull over to the side of the road at the next safe place." She carries on a bit and, seeing a large gap between 2 of the said parked cars, checks her mirror, indicates, pulls over (close to the car infront so as to leave room behind for the Merc to pull in to should he need, in the case of oncoming cars). When she pulls up, the indicator flicks off, she puts the handbrake on, car in neutral and waits. The Merc pulls in behind her and sits there for 10-15 seconds before pulling around her.
Instructor said this was an automatic fail as she should've put her indicator on again to tell the Merc she was parked up.
I think the gear selection one is a bit 50:50. The indicator one, to me, would be just a courtesy - if the guy in the Merc was paying attention he would've seen her indicate and, naturally, assume she was not about to pull out around the parked cars.
Anyone care to comment? Is there an appeal process? Anyone ever done it?
>>> Edited by neil.b on Thursday 10th June 13:51
Tell her she will definitely get it on her third, all the best drivers do 
neil.b said:
Examiner said she laboured for too long in 3rd and that the revs had reached 5000rpm which in his words "should never happen".
What sort of car was this in, and so how fast was 5000 rpm in 3rd? Even in your average modern supermini that would surely be 75MPH or so?
If she was really doing 5000RPM I would have imagined that the examiner would be terrified by the screaming of the engine - most people taking their tests probably never go over 2000 RPM.
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If I remember correctly the best you can get from the appeals process is a free retest. Enough appeals against them and an examiner has to go for retraining - like the bloke who failed me the first time around, he was notorious for failing teenagers. He was probably right to fail me the first time - but not for the reason quoted ! Hesitation indeed !! Poor clutch control would be more accurate.
Second time around I pulled away from the test centre up to the notorious first junction. It was very busy that day and we spent over a minute sitting waiting for a gap in the traffic so that I could turn left. There wasn't much of a view so when a gap appeared I made a very positive start and hit over 25mph in first in an old Talbot Sunbeam. No wheelspin but a bit on the noisy side though no bent valves and quite an achievement for something designed in the 70s I thought ! Passed test no problem, but I only did it the once. Twice maybe, but three times in the short space of time that constitutes the test would indicate to me that something is lacking in her driving skills I'm afraid. Best to have a few more lessons to find out what and get it set right for the future.
Meant to add that I thought the indicator one was a bit iffy and wouldn't have thought it could possibly be an instant fail. Repeated inappropriate gear one still bothers me though.
>> Edited by te51cle on Thursday 10th June 21:26
Second time around I pulled away from the test centre up to the notorious first junction. It was very busy that day and we spent over a minute sitting waiting for a gap in the traffic so that I could turn left. There wasn't much of a view so when a gap appeared I made a very positive start and hit over 25mph in first in an old Talbot Sunbeam. No wheelspin but a bit on the noisy side though no bent valves and quite an achievement for something designed in the 70s I thought ! Passed test no problem, but I only did it the once. Twice maybe, but three times in the short space of time that constitutes the test would indicate to me that something is lacking in her driving skills I'm afraid. Best to have a few more lessons to find out what and get it set right for the future.
Meant to add that I thought the indicator one was a bit iffy and wouldn't have thought it could possibly be an instant fail. Repeated inappropriate gear one still bothers me though.
>> Edited by te51cle on Thursday 10th June 21:26
My first I failed on some really stupid stuff, and the second time flew through. Some instructors are just out to fail you I imagine.
None of the above seems dangerous or ill attentive. I'd expect another driver to be clever enough to realise I was stopped. Christ, we all live with people who don't indicate at roundabouts, and we simply "read" their actions instead.
If you were parked before the Merc came into sight, would you have to indicate for everyone who came near to show you were parked and not just waiting? Seems silly to me!
The gear thing is daft too, every car is different. A tdi revs to ~4000rpm, but going over 2000 isn't really ever necessary in a torquey diesel.
In an RX8 I'd imagine going to 5000rpm is common place.
Probably the tester was a grumpy old git.
Just a shame these days since the theory and all that means you have to do it all in a short space of time, and they cost loads to do too!
I'd say it's always easier the second time though, more relaxed and confident (which is a requisite of good driving in my opinion)...
Dave
None of the above seems dangerous or ill attentive. I'd expect another driver to be clever enough to realise I was stopped. Christ, we all live with people who don't indicate at roundabouts, and we simply "read" their actions instead.
If you were parked before the Merc came into sight, would you have to indicate for everyone who came near to show you were parked and not just waiting? Seems silly to me!
The gear thing is daft too, every car is different. A tdi revs to ~4000rpm, but going over 2000 isn't really ever necessary in a torquey diesel.
In an RX8 I'd imagine going to 5000rpm is common place.
Probably the tester was a grumpy old git.
Just a shame these days since the theory and all that means you have to do it all in a short space of time, and they cost loads to do too!
I'd say it's always easier the second time though, more relaxed and confident (which is a requisite of good driving in my opinion)...
Dave
streaky said:
I too feel that the indicator "strike" was harsh.
Mind you, a friend's daughter was failed because she didn't indicate when turning at a T-junction. Her complaint was that there were no other vehicles around, so to whom was she supposed to be indicating?
Streaky
When I did the IAM test a few years back, they specifically mentioned "signal clutter" in the training, and to not bother indicating when there is no one to indicate to!
neil.b said:
She carries on a bit and, seeing a large gap between 2 of the said parked cars, checks her mirror, indicates, pulls over (close to the car infront so as to leave room behind for the Merc to pull in to should he need, in the case of oncoming cars). When she pulls up, the indicator flicks off, she puts the handbrake on, car in neutral and waits. The Merc pulls in behind her and sits there for 10-15 seconds before pulling around her.
Is this perhaps a justified fail for not being aware enough to signal for the benefit of other road users?
I hope examiners are looking for safe and co-operative interactions with other road users, and this "incident" didn't demonstrate co-operation.
I disagree Paul.
She checked her mirrors, spotted the Merc (even mentioned it to the examiner), indicated left and performed the manoeuver. To me, at that point, she would've been paying attention to the examiner, awaiting further instruction having completed the requested move in a text-book and safe manner.
Besides this, the examiner was also basing his judgement on what he "thought" the Merc driver was thinking i.e. he presummed that the Merc driver was expecting her to pull out. He never initimated this to neither her or the examiner.
Again, in the real world, you and I would've perhaps popped the indicator back on as a courtesy. But is that enough to warrant an outright fail in the test?
She checked her mirrors, spotted the Merc (even mentioned it to the examiner), indicated left and performed the manoeuver. To me, at that point, she would've been paying attention to the examiner, awaiting further instruction having completed the requested move in a text-book and safe manner.
Besides this, the examiner was also basing his judgement on what he "thought" the Merc driver was thinking i.e. he presummed that the Merc driver was expecting her to pull out. He never initimated this to neither her or the examiner.
Again, in the real world, you and I would've perhaps popped the indicator back on as a courtesy. But is that enough to warrant an outright fail in the test?
Sorry Paul, perhaps I was being a little over defensive. Bobbins said:
What sort of car was this in, and so how fast was 5000 rpm in 3rd? Even in your average modern supermini that would surely be 75MPH or so?
If she was really doing 5000RPM I would have imagined that the examiner would be terrified by the screaming of the engine - most people taking their tests probably never go over 2000 RPM.
I wish - my car only does 50mph at 5000rpm in 3rd!
This all sounds rather harsh but it is possible that the examiner picked up some points to use because they felt she was not upto standard.
I would fail on the gears thing in normal driving as I only ever use the first 3 gears in a 30mph zone as I find it gives better control and is easier to stick to the speed limit. Yet on the test they would expect you to be in 4th as soon as possible.
I would fail on the gears thing in normal driving as I only ever use the first 3 gears in a 30mph zone as I find it gives better control and is easier to stick to the speed limit. Yet on the test they would expect you to be in 4th as soon as possible.
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