What's wrong with Britain 2012
Discussion
Spiralling out of some other threads, heres what I think needs to change:
1. Rights without responsibilities
2. Financial reward without work
3. Crime without punishment.
I am tired of the status quo. Is it too much to expect for people to start taking responsibility for their own actions? If YOU decide to have 3+ children whilst having no job, no stable partner, no means and no interest then it is simply not the role of everyone else paying tax to provide a 2/3 bedroom home for your family to live.
If you messed around at school spending your time bullying the teachers and other kids and have left school with no qualifications and no skills then that my friend is on you. The state should not be expected to give you cash to squander while you return less than zero. By which I mean you are aggressive, anti social and generally just a dick around most everyone unfortunate enough to interact with you. If you are unwilling to take the crap job paying crap money that you are barely able to do then you can earn your money, your benefit money, WORKING FOR the state. You can pick up litter in town centres outside pubs, bars and clubs at peak times so you are visible to your peer group. Society pays people to clean the streets already so your human rights aren't being diminished. But you won't look cool, hard or dangerous to your chums, let alone any of the opposite sex, when they see you picking up fag butts outside the club at 10.30pm on a Friday night. Maybe your example will inspire others to try and conform at school and maybe even learn something from the free education that is being laid on for you.
The government can kick start the economy by embarking on a mass prison building programme. Supersize jails all around the country. Heres an idea, if someone continually offends, especially where crimes of violence are concerned, lock them up. Nothing fancy, just insist that the current con trick of getting the judge/magistrate to issue a sentence (only half of which they serve) comes to an abrupt end. Get sentenced for 7 years for robbery? Then 7 years you serve.
Most of the public don't seem to realise that we sentence concurrently here as opposed to consecutively in the good ol USA. The difference is many of our scumbags get charged and sentenced for Multiple offences at the same time. Except while they have got 6 years for serious assault, 18 months for possession with intent to supply cl
ass A and maybe 2 years for robbery, they are serving all these sentences at the same time! This means that a sentence, in that case of 9.5 years is in fact only three years because all the sentences are being served at the same time, and will be halved anyway.
In the States you would serve your 9.5 years. That's what needs to happen here. I'm not interested in the offender. Rehabilitation comes second. Punishment comes first. Punishment is a deterrent. I am interested in the victim. What effect has someone else's actions had on their life?
Punishment where you aren't hanging out with like minded individuals all day, enjoying three squares, exercise equipment, medical care and learning opportunities. No, that's not a deterrent. I want prison to be a place where you would fear being sent.
At the moment if you have a job, certainly if you are
PAYE, getting a conviction, worse jail time, would destroy your life. As such you behave. If you have never worked, have no education and don't intend on getting either, what fear does getting a criminal record have for you? For these people jail time carries the same level of 'fear' that having to have a minor unexpected medical operation has for everyone else. This situation needs to change.
Right, what do you think.
highway said:
If you messed around at school spending your time bullying the teachers and other kids and have left school with no qualifications and no skills then that my friend is on you. The state should not be expected to give you cash to squander while you return less than zero. By which I mean you are aggressive, anti social and generally just a dick around most everyone unfortunate enough to interact with you.
Hmmm...well, when I was at primary school, I was lucky enough to be sent to a private school. My learning curve, combined with whatever IQ I have, was so steep that when I was 6, at the end of the school year they put me up TWO classes, into the 'seniors', as I had assimilated and read so much knowledge so early that they felt I was way ahead of my peers and would get bored in the next year up very quickly.Then, we moved away and my parents couldn't afford private education anymore, so I was sent to the local 'bash street.'
To cut a long story short, the school was an 'all boys school' with an elderly head teacher, and as such, instilled proper teaching, values and respect, so all good in the first two years.
Then in the third year, the head retired, a young bloke came in, and we amalgamated with the nearby girls school.
Years 3, 4 and 5 were a complete mess, as we were also the first year to have the newGCSE exams. The teahcers didn't seem to be that interested, I got bored and just lost interest, dossed about and caused trouble. Although, inbetween mucking about, listened to enough of their drivel to retain enough info to pass all 9 GSCE's in the end, which I found easy and of no real interest.
Hence, I left school with a sense of alienated detachment, and only picked up again on academic learning and personal development in my 20's, whereupon I spent time going to different seminars and events, and using the then new internet, to pick up the things that were the most important life skills - financial, investment, that sort of thing. Ended up in senior management, then started a business, and building / investing in property.
I guess the point is, that at school, if you have a kid that isn't lucky enough to be born with the kind of cognitive ability I'm fortunate enough to posess, then that, coupled with the immaturity of a young age, especially boys, means that they really don't have the maturity or understanding to be able to see the importance of assimilating knowledge for later life.
So I think it's a bit harsh to write kids off who bugger about at school. I think the blame should be spread between the teachers and the parents far more than the young individual. Low academic progress in school doesn't necessarily translate into a useless adult who ends up being a burden on society.
As an example, aren't most of our best entrepreneurs (Branson, Suger et al) all technical 'school faliures?'
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
As an example, aren't most of our best entrepreneurs (Branson, Suger et al) all technical 'school faliures?'
How many times did they get nicked for aggravated assault or attempted/actual burglary or drunk n disorderly?Leaving school and getting an honest job/doing honest work doesn't make you a failure imho.
I've worked with kids in some south London secondaries. One bad kiddie in a class of 30 can be all it takes to nuke the chances of the others around him. Typically in private education this isn't an issue. The parents are all on board and if one kiddie plays up to much then out they go as the other paying parents won't stomach it.
Not the case in state school. It's very difficult to get a child excluded.
The deluded think that hiring in ex-army to teach is the way forward as they could instill 'discipline' this is a nonsense. 15 year olds at school in London know their rights. You could have Mike Tyson in his prime stood in front of them with a flame thrower in one hand and an axe in the other. Doesn't matter cause " you can't touch me, I'll have your job"
Getting an education for free is a privelige. You don't want it, your parent/s can't talk you into trying either? Then own it . Just don't let other kids get dragged down with them. I've seen it happen.
Not the case in state school. It's very difficult to get a child excluded.
The deluded think that hiring in ex-army to teach is the way forward as they could instill 'discipline' this is a nonsense. 15 year olds at school in London know their rights. You could have Mike Tyson in his prime stood in front of them with a flame thrower in one hand and an axe in the other. Doesn't matter cause " you can't touch me, I'll have your job"
Getting an education for free is a privelige. You don't want it, your parent/s can't talk you into trying either? Then own it . Just don't let other kids get dragged down with them. I've seen it happen.
As above, if you don't want to play the academic game that's fine. I just think its outrageous that ( to quote Mr Spock) the needs of the many get outweighed by the needs of the few. If a teacher spends half a lesson trying to keep one lad in check then how much of the rest of the classes time is wasted?
Joking aside, I've considered politics. I believe the essence of what blights the UK is covered in my first post. Problem is to get elected to a position where you can effect change you first have to align yourself with one of the three electable political parties in the UK.
We live in a democracy but politically the three main parties are all close together. It's like wanting a drink but only being able to choose from Coke, Diet Coke or Coke Zero. The other parties are all painted as extremists or mad by the all powerful media. An independent has no hope of making any real change to anything.
We live in a democracy but politically the three main parties are all close together. It's like wanting a drink but only being able to choose from Coke, Diet Coke or Coke Zero. The other parties are all painted as extremists or mad by the all powerful media. An independent has no hope of making any real change to anything.
Highway, you echo the feelings of the silent majority in this once green and pleasant land.
Trouble is, most are still silent!..WE, the descent and fair minded people of this land are a submissive race of mongrels (that's the indigenous English of course) and as such we have always done as we've been told and still do!...That's why we have a long tradition of fighting wars for political gain for the powers that be.
We can whinge a lot and we certainly do our fair share of that around the world (always have, always will be whinging pommes)....So, this forum has once again given me the opportunity to complain and agree with the points above in the first post....
Will anything happen? not on your nelly!
I shall remain silent now, until i feel like whinging again.
Thank you
Trouble is, most are still silent!..WE, the descent and fair minded people of this land are a submissive race of mongrels (that's the indigenous English of course) and as such we have always done as we've been told and still do!...That's why we have a long tradition of fighting wars for political gain for the powers that be.
We can whinge a lot and we certainly do our fair share of that around the world (always have, always will be whinging pommes)....So, this forum has once again given me the opportunity to complain and agree with the points above in the first post....
Will anything happen? not on your nelly!
I shall remain silent now, until i feel like whinging again.
Thank you
Disco_Dale said:
highway said:
I've worked with kids in some south London secondaries. One bad kiddie in a class of 30 can be all it takes to nuke the chances of the others around him.
I'd say that scenario is more a failing of the teacher and possibly the headteacher/LEA to allow it to happen. So what do you do as a teacher in a class of 15 year old when one lad decides he doesn't want to conform? Let's say something common, like calling the teacher a word that rhymes with hunt. Teacher first asks child to leave class. Child refuses. Teacher gets headmaster who again tells child to leave class. Whilst this interactive episode of the Jeremy Kyle show unfolds remember there is no teaching is going on. The teachers are undermined.
The child refuses to leave, calling the head a rude word. Do you know what comes next..?
In more than few London secondaries the next step is removing the class to another classroom while naughty lad hold his ground. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?
Many teachers and heads are loathe to get hands on, for a gamut of reasons. It's easier to blame the head/ teacher or education authority than it is to point to the piss poor parenting or the aggressive (deprived, starved of love and opportunity/ dyslexic, traumatised...pick one) child who is actually causing the problem
The child refuses to leave, calling the head a rude word. Do you know what comes next..?
In more than few London secondaries the next step is removing the class to another classroom while naughty lad hold his ground. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?
Many teachers and heads are loathe to get hands on, for a gamut of reasons. It's easier to blame the head/ teacher or education authority than it is to point to the piss poor parenting or the aggressive (deprived, starved of love and opportunity/ dyslexic, traumatised...pick one) child who is actually causing the problem
I totally agree OP. The issues are many:
1. Crime and punishment. The police need to instill fear in the scroat classes. Low level criminality needs to be stamped on hard. I have little time for the HRA as abused by the criminal classes, so get rid of it. Replace it with a Bill of Rights, and a Bill of Reponsibilities, making a clear contract between the state and the individual.
2. Welfare state. It's seen as an entitlement, not a last resort, which is wrong as proven by almost every other country in the world. We have a problem with teenage pregnancy in this country. Stop handing out free houses to people, and force them to stay at home if they can't afford their own place. Lets see how keen their parents are on their darling Chardonnay staying out late with the local gang bangers until all hours when the prize isn't a free cahncil haaas.
3. Manufacturing/outsourcing. We simply have to control this. Instead of allowing companies to outsource roles overseas, why not encourage them to set up operations in cheaper parts of the UK? Either by tax breaks or subsidies. The north wants jobs, so let's give them lots of factories paying 4quid an hour (and foreign workers limited as a percentage of the workforce).
4. The EU. We simply have to get out.
Like you OP, I'd like to give politics a bash one day, but I know my views are too extreme for many in the UK, as they involve a level of personal responsibility.
1. Crime and punishment. The police need to instill fear in the scroat classes. Low level criminality needs to be stamped on hard. I have little time for the HRA as abused by the criminal classes, so get rid of it. Replace it with a Bill of Rights, and a Bill of Reponsibilities, making a clear contract between the state and the individual.
2. Welfare state. It's seen as an entitlement, not a last resort, which is wrong as proven by almost every other country in the world. We have a problem with teenage pregnancy in this country. Stop handing out free houses to people, and force them to stay at home if they can't afford their own place. Lets see how keen their parents are on their darling Chardonnay staying out late with the local gang bangers until all hours when the prize isn't a free cahncil haaas.
3. Manufacturing/outsourcing. We simply have to control this. Instead of allowing companies to outsource roles overseas, why not encourage them to set up operations in cheaper parts of the UK? Either by tax breaks or subsidies. The north wants jobs, so let's give them lots of factories paying 4quid an hour (and foreign workers limited as a percentage of the workforce).
4. The EU. We simply have to get out.
Like you OP, I'd like to give politics a bash one day, but I know my views are too extreme for many in the UK, as they involve a level of personal responsibility.
highway said:
So what do you do as a teacher in a class of 15 year old when one lad decides he doesn't want to conform? Let's say something common, like calling the teacher a word that rhymes with hunt. Teacher first asks child to leave class. Child refuses. Teacher gets headmaster who again tells child to leave class. Whilst this interactive episode of the Jeremy Kyle show unfolds remember there is no teaching is going on. The teachers are undermined.
The child refuses to leave, calling the head a rude word. Do you know what comes next..?
In more than few London secondaries the next step is removing the class to another classroom while naughty lad hold his ground. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?
Many teachers and heads are loathe to get hands on, for a gamut of reasons. It's easier to blame the head/ teacher or education authority than it is to point to the piss poor parenting or the aggressive (deprived, starved of love and opportunity/ dyslexic, traumatised...pick one) child who is actually causing the problem
Wouldn't know, ive never had one call me anything. The child refuses to leave, calling the head a rude word. Do you know what comes next..?
In more than few London secondaries the next step is removing the class to another classroom while naughty lad hold his ground. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?
Many teachers and heads are loathe to get hands on, for a gamut of reasons. It's easier to blame the head/ teacher or education authority than it is to point to the piss poor parenting or the aggressive (deprived, starved of love and opportunity/ dyslexic, traumatised...pick one) child who is actually causing the problem
Bing o said:
I totally agree OP. The issues are many:
Like you OP, I'd like to give politics a bash one day, but I know my views are too extreme for many in the UK, as they involve a level of personal responsibility.
Then try to get on a few unpaid commitees, once there get some like minded people to join you.Like you OP, I'd like to give politics a bash one day, but I know my views are too extreme for many in the UK, as they involve a level of personal responsibility.
The male female teacher ratios need looking at.....
or more accurately should not have been allowed to decend to the current level.
I know I'll get shot down as a MCP, but some jobs are just not suited to a 23 year old female. A classroom of 15 year males, even moderately well behaved ones, is not an ideal learning situation. Think back
.Council housing needs to linked to Family needs. In other words only a family qualifies, Mother Father and offspring etc. However, keeping that dwelling should be dependent on both parents being present, one in jail is not present.
Go back a few years, some I know are going to hate this one
, remove alcohol from supermarkets. The police should send out a questionaire and actually read what most people expect of them. Basically they are there to enforce the law (all laws equally)
not just the ones that are politically flavour of the day, or just the revenue producing ones.
Oh.... and no short skirts on fat girls.
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