Rotary engines
Discussion
I'm thinking of swapping my Hyundai for an RX8 next year, but I've heard that the rotary engine can be an issue. Is there anyone here that can give me an honest answer as to how much of a pain it is, whether it needs rebuilding every 50k miles etc?
I've heard lots of different things but would like to hear from someone who actually knows what they're on about.
Thanks in advance
I've heard lots of different things but would like to hear from someone who actually knows what they're on about.
Thanks in advance
They are a truly awful engine
Drink loads of fuel
Drink loads of oil....you wont make it past 100 miles before needing to fill up the bowser that will need to follow you.
They need to change the coils every 100 miles
Spark plugs least 200 miles
Oh and they will need rebuilding every 6000 miles.
well that is probably the standard response you will get from those that heard their mate down the pub talk about them!
In reality, great engine, yes they use a little oil, but no more than your average performance engine and they are designed to do so!
Shame the economy is a bit on the low side, expect 25mpg.
The engines will need a rebuild, but if this is done correctly including a few mods on the water/oil ways and using brand new parts rather than skimping on costs, it isnt too expensive.
Drink loads of fuel
Drink loads of oil....you wont make it past 100 miles before needing to fill up the bowser that will need to follow you.
They need to change the coils every 100 miles
Spark plugs least 200 miles
Oh and they will need rebuilding every 6000 miles.
well that is probably the standard response you will get from those that heard their mate down the pub talk about them!
In reality, great engine, yes they use a little oil, but no more than your average performance engine and they are designed to do so!
Shame the economy is a bit on the low side, expect 25mpg.
The engines will need a rebuild, but if this is done correctly including a few mods on the water/oil ways and using brand new parts rather than skimping on costs, it isnt too expensive.
Great thank you!
Economy I was expecting it to be about 20mpg anyway, so anymore than that is brilliant. I worked out that on 20mpg I'll only have to use about another £10 for fuel than I am now, as my poor car gets some ragging!
How often would you say you need to rebuild the engine?
I know everyone says the engine is terrible, but surely if it was that bad, people wouldn't buy the car?
Economy I was expecting it to be about 20mpg anyway, so anymore than that is brilliant. I worked out that on 20mpg I'll only have to use about another £10 for fuel than I am now, as my poor car gets some ragging!
How often would you say you need to rebuild the engine?
I know everyone says the engine is terrible, but surely if it was that bad, people wouldn't buy the car?
Trackside Junior said:
Great thank you!
Economy I was expecting it to be about 20mpg anyway, so anymore than that is brilliant. I worked out that on 20mpg I'll only have to use about another £10 for fuel than I am now, as my poor car gets some ragging!
How often would you say you need to rebuild the engine?
I know everyone says the engine is terrible, but surely if it was that bad, people wouldn't buy the car?
Sadly there are way too many people buying the cars and then they are failing. Partly due to poor maintenance, service every 4500 miles for oils, and mistreated when it comes to short running’s or not giving it a good thrashing! There are a lot of cars out there that are in need of an engine build, and most people can’t see the economy in doing so. So buy one that needs it, and get it done.Economy I was expecting it to be about 20mpg anyway, so anymore than that is brilliant. I worked out that on 20mpg I'll only have to use about another £10 for fuel than I am now, as my poor car gets some ragging!
How often would you say you need to rebuild the engine?
I know everyone says the engine is terrible, but surely if it was that bad, people wouldn't buy the car?
The problem they get is carbon build ups, so they need to be spanked every now and then. I have seen engines last over 100k, something you could only dream about with an Rx7. However, just beware of going to someone who promises to rebuild it cheap. I do hope these don’t go the way of the 7. They are rebuilt on a budget, and this then shortens the life of the new engine. It is then they get a bad reputation for grenadine themselves after 20k miles.
if you are buying one, if the coils and plugs haven’t been changed recently then knock £400 off the price. It won’t cost you that, but a good starting point.
Oh and make sure the cam belts have been changed
Get money off if not!! lol
25mpg 
yeah right! More like 19mpg
If its only going to cost you another £10 extra in fuel then you can't be doing many miles? Maybe a lot or few short journeys which isn't good for this car as has been said before.
I've not had one myself but a friend of mine did, nigh on crippled him financially.
Yes it's a lovely car, the door look cool, inside looks cool, rwd etc... Just go in with your eyes open regarding costs.
Good luck though, a true PH car.
yeah right! More like 19mpgIf its only going to cost you another £10 extra in fuel then you can't be doing many miles? Maybe a lot or few short journeys which isn't good for this car as has been said before.
I've not had one myself but a friend of mine did, nigh on crippled him financially.
Yes it's a lovely car, the door look cool, inside looks cool, rwd etc... Just go in with your eyes open regarding costs.
Good luck though, a true PH car.
Diablos-666 said:
25mpg yeah right! More like 19mpg
If its only going to cost you another £10 extra in fuel then you can't be doing many miles? Maybe a lot or few short journeys which isn't good for this car as has been said before.
I do quite a few miles a week, but it's because my current car can't handle how I drive (it's not built to go more than 50mph etc), so I'm putting about £50 a week in, which should last 2 weeks with anyone else driving it. I'm actually currently carrying out a mpg test, so we'll see how much I'm actually getting out of it. But as I said before, with the RX8, I wasn't expecting anything much better than 20mpg. yeah right! More like 19mpgIf its only going to cost you another £10 extra in fuel then you can't be doing many miles? Maybe a lot or few short journeys which isn't good for this car as has been said before.
Edited by Trackside Junior on Friday 6th January 22:47
I think my wife last reported 16-17mpg. I just don't look or try and work it out. 
See http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?1237...
Rebuilds? After 50k-100k depending on (ab)use. Strangely unlike some cars being thraped is good for them and IMO you'll get more issues if you don't regularly visit the red line than if you do. Its pretty easy to hit the limiter by mistake as there is no drop off in power before you get there.
FWIW with all the tales of 'flooding' and being hard to start ours has *never* failed to start or even struggled.
See http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?1237...
Rebuilds? After 50k-100k depending on (ab)use. Strangely unlike some cars being thraped is good for them and IMO you'll get more issues if you don't regularly visit the red line than if you do. Its pretty easy to hit the limiter by mistake as there is no drop off in power before you get there.
FWIW with all the tales of 'flooding' and being hard to start ours has *never* failed to start or even struggled.
If you want to no anything about these have a search on the net for a company called WGT. Give them a call Pip is the fella you want to talk to im sure he will help you out. Ive not used them for a while but he is a RX7 specialist but i presume hes also moved onto the RX8 aswell. Real nice bloke does a great job.
These guys are not far from me and have been dealing with rotary engines for over 35yrs,so they must know a few things about them. www.rotechniks.co.uk
Another thing of note is that there is a suggestion that failure is down to three main causes
1) Wear
2) Sticking seals
3) Failing Coil packs.
AFAICT Series 2 engines (09+ R3's) have three oil injectors and two electric oil pumps (against 2 and one mechanical).
There is a suggestion that post ~50k <2009 engines its wear that takes the engines out due to a lack of enough oil to the seals (necessitating an 'expensive' rebuild as it needs new rotor housings rather than just cleaning and seals). There is a suggestion that adding (motorcycle two-stroke synthetic) premix in roughly 250:1 ratio helps lube the seals and prevent wear and hence prevents the need for a rebuild. Then again there are people with 100k+ on the original engine that haven't bothered!
One final note on that though is that racing beat found a peak increase of 4HP with premix (and an average of 1.7BHP) http://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/performance/rotary...
Sticking seals is from driving too easily, get it warm and thrape it. Two beeps a day keep the rebuilds away. :-)
The issue with coils is an multitude of issues, the coils failing makes it more likely to flood, flooding means you'll contaminate the cat *and* the apex seals er won't *and* the petrol will wash the oil away which increases chance of engine failure.
Again suggestion seems to be to swap coils and leads every 30k.
1) Wear
2) Sticking seals
3) Failing Coil packs.
AFAICT Series 2 engines (09+ R3's) have three oil injectors and two electric oil pumps (against 2 and one mechanical).
There is a suggestion that post ~50k <2009 engines its wear that takes the engines out due to a lack of enough oil to the seals (necessitating an 'expensive' rebuild as it needs new rotor housings rather than just cleaning and seals). There is a suggestion that adding (motorcycle two-stroke synthetic) premix in roughly 250:1 ratio helps lube the seals and prevent wear and hence prevents the need for a rebuild. Then again there are people with 100k+ on the original engine that haven't bothered!
One final note on that though is that racing beat found a peak increase of 4HP with premix (and an average of 1.7BHP) http://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/performance/rotary...
Sticking seals is from driving too easily, get it warm and thrape it. Two beeps a day keep the rebuilds away. :-)
The issue with coils is an multitude of issues, the coils failing makes it more likely to flood, flooding means you'll contaminate the cat *and* the apex seals er won't *and* the petrol will wash the oil away which increases chance of engine failure.
Again suggestion seems to be to swap coils and leads every 30k.
Rotary is a awful engine? i detest people who make comments with little knowledge based on some old hear say. the twin turbo rotary needed rebuild at 60k the n/a cars last much longer. The engines are reliable and yes do you a bit of fuel and you need to top up oil (same in my e46 330ci) they just need to be maintained by someone who understands mechanics and not just filled up with fuel and maybe taking to a garage for a service once a year. So find a good one thats had decent servicing and enjoy it.
They are not just some unreliable self destructing car lol
They are not just some unreliable self destructing car lol
Might want to have a look at a thread In The readers cars section about someone putting a vag 1.8t engine in a rx8. And it's a guy that works for a well known rx7 engine swap company. Looks like the swap keeps alot of the stock components as well (I'd gearbox). Worth a look if nothing else.
StyleTechnik said:
Rotary is a awful engine? i detest people who make comments with little knowledge based on some old hear say. the twin turbo rotary needed rebuild at 60k the n/a cars last much longer. The engines are reliable and yes do you a bit of fuel and you need to top up oil (same in my e46 330ci) they just need to be maintained by someone who understands mechanics and not just filled up with fuel and maybe taking to a garage for a service once a year. So find a good one thats had decent servicing and enjoy it.
They are not just some unreliable self destructing car lol
Were you picking up on my post by any chance? Did you not spot the slight tongue in cheek response? I have probably 9 rotary engined vehicles in my workshop at the moment.....so I think I know a little about them They are not just some unreliable self destructing car lol
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