Ceramic Brakes for Aston V8
Discussion
I'm sure works service would do it for you, at tremendous cost though.
I think the steel ones are more than adequate personally.
ETA - Actually I'm not sure they would fit a V8V, the V12V's front brakes are 398mm dia vs the current 355mm. I would guess you would need to go up to 20" wheels too.
I think the steel ones are more than adequate personally.
ETA - Actually I'm not sure they would fit a V8V, the V12V's front brakes are 398mm dia vs the current 355mm. I would guess you would need to go up to 20" wheels too.
Edited by George H on Monday 9th January 17:49
V12V has 19" wheels.
There are US firms selling non-OEM CCM brakes - have a look on 6speedonline and the US-centric forums.
The V12V CCM brakes are brembo.
Works Service would not touch this with a bargepole since it's changing a primary safety system. They are not structured to take on the liability. So I have been told be people who work at WS.
To the OP - I think Bamford Rose could give better advice than many...
There are US firms selling non-OEM CCM brakes - have a look on 6speedonline and the US-centric forums.
The V12V CCM brakes are brembo.
Works Service would not touch this with a bargepole since it's changing a primary safety system. They are not structured to take on the liability. So I have been told be people who work at WS.
To the OP - I think Bamford Rose could give better advice than many...
unless its a trackday car or you are endurance racing, I dont think they are really needed ...unless you are finding yourself with overheated brakes after arriving at the corners on your favourit B road 5 mph faster than normal on a Sunday morning 
certainly I could think of other things to spend £10k on before the brakes....like even more power, or 2 months of driver training ...training always make the car faster than upgrades in my experience
certainly I could think of other things to spend £10k on before the brakes....like even more power, or 2 months of driver training ...training always make the car faster than upgrades in my experience
Glendower said:
I have a V8 Roadster 4.7, which has Sports exhaust and cats, looking to add new manifold etc...with the extra power was thinking about upgrading the brakes and wondered if there were any non OEM Ceramics that can be fitted??
I presume you are talking about ceramic brake pads, not what others have assumed to be the Carbon-Ceramic Matrix rotors?if you just want "better" braking i.e. can cope with more hard use, then just change the pads to what the race teams use, something like Pagid RS19 or 29
but they will squeal when not up to race temps...so most of the time around town... the pads that are OE are very good for fast road use or light trackday use (stick to 20 min sessions and are fine in my experience)
but they will squeal when not up to race temps...so most of the time around town... the pads that are OE are very good for fast road use or light trackday use (stick to 20 min sessions and are fine in my experience)
I have a 4.3 bog standard apart from a QS sports back box and am not the quickest driver by any means, I do however really enjoy a local twisty the "Col de la Faucille" (I live in Geneva) the altitude at the top being 1400m and the vertical drop about 1000m. It consists of dozens and dozens of 2-300m straights interrupted by hairpins. The bog standard brakes cope fine on the way up but do not merit that definition long before I get to the bottom on the way back down. They dont squeal afterwards though...
Hi, have a chat with Mode performance at Silverstone they import Brembo Brakes, they recently made me up a set of two piece bell and rotor front discs for my DB9 they look wicked and the centres wont rust like the oe discs, the fronts where specially made up (approx £900 + vat), the rears which havent yet been fitted area stock Brembo items no cost agreed yet but will be cheaper, they specialise in replacing ceramics with steels.
What you need is a set of these, Brembo Granturismos. 380mm ally-belled discs at the front with 6-pot calipers, kept the rear calipers, just changed to the same size lightweight drilled disc. Performance is incredbile and massively exceeds the standard units.
Bamford Rose are offering brake upgrades as well, Ben has them on his Vantage, very similar set-up to mine but made by Alcon. I should think they'll run you a third of the price of CCMs which are kind of unnecessary on a road car unless it's a track day machine or you're justifying the top of the range model...
FYI, Works Service will 100% NOT fit CCMs to a DB9 or V8 Vantage. I've asked.
Bamford Rose are offering brake upgrades as well, Ben has them on his Vantage, very similar set-up to mine but made by Alcon. I should think they'll run you a third of the price of CCMs which are kind of unnecessary on a road car unless it's a track day machine or you're justifying the top of the range model...
FYI, Works Service will 100% NOT fit CCMs to a DB9 or V8 Vantage. I've asked.
yeti said:
What you need is a set of these, Brembo Granturismos. 380mm ally-belled discs at the front with 6-pot calipers, kept the rear calipers, just changed to the same size lightweight drilled disc. Performance is incredbile and massively exceeds the standard units.
I was thinking about your brakes before. How do you go on with the holes filling up with brake dust? I remember reading horror stories from Porsche owners with cross drilled brakes having them fill up with brake dust and result in cracking. Do you have to clean them out regularly or is it not really an issue with them?Here is my 2 cents,
You might like to conceder a stepped plan for upgrades to brakes.
Some of this is from experience from race and track cars and other is from research in the last couple of week for upgrading brakes on V8V S.
1st and the least costly is to upgrading the Brake Fluid. I’m told this takes about 1hr for someone to change, though you need an Aston diagnostics tool (or similar) to open the ABS unit to flush everything through. You’ll need about 3l of brake fluid for the first time, less for subsequent flushes. My favourite is Motul RBF660. Some people like Castrol SRF however it probably twice the price or more and unless you’re running a very fast single seater you’ll probably never know the difference. You’ll need to make sure you change the fluid every 12 months or less as racing brake fluid absorbs water quicker than standards DOT4.
2nd Pads. The V8V GT4’s run Pagid RS29’s. I’ve not run these though I’m told the cold performance is not great. Better would be RS15 or for even more road oriented pad RS4-2. Both the RS29’s and RS15’s are ceramic based pads.
On Vantage S at the moment only RS29’s are available for the front pads, though Pagid are looking into supplying RS15’s to me, though I’m waiting to hear back. The rears pads (not necessarily the callipers) are suppose to be the same as the recent standard Vantage rears which come in at least RS15 & RS29 (there may be more if you check). For the S it looks like you can also get Ferodo DS2500 and DS3000 compounds for the front but I’ve never used these or researched them much, so I can’t comment.
Info on RS compounds http://www.braketechnology.com/racecharacteristics...
Next is cooling. The simplest form is to get some brake ducting hose and tie wrap it securely in place. It’s best to remove the backing plates to allow cooling air to be directed at the disc/calliper (best is both). What is better is to fabricate or purchase backing plates that you can attach the brake duct to. You then need get the other end into a cool flow of air. Other than cutting holes in lower front bumper cover like the GT4’s I don’t have a perfect solution as the car is only to be delivered this week. If you don’t want to do this you can simply have the ducting attached to lower wishbone with the end pointing forward into the airflow. Not ideal but likely better than nothing.
Now it gets expensive…..
Brake calliper and disc upgrade. Some have already mention Bamford Rose’s kit which I think uses 6 pot Alcon callipers. For your info the front callipers on the S look to be (I’ve not physically checked) Audi RS6 6 pot callipers.
I’m sure people with more experience on the Vantage will have some input on this. I’ve not researched this as the S brakes is pretty good starting point (6 pot callipers and floating discs) which I’ll likely improve with the fluid, pad, cooling route as listed above.
As a side note, the original question was on CCM brakes, it quite common practice for people who do track days or racing change from CCM to Steel either for cost reasons, regulations or the fact that if you get CCM too hot then you can really destroy the pads and discs quite quickly, which can add up to 10’s of thousands of pounds.
You might like to conceder a stepped plan for upgrades to brakes.
Some of this is from experience from race and track cars and other is from research in the last couple of week for upgrading brakes on V8V S.
1st and the least costly is to upgrading the Brake Fluid. I’m told this takes about 1hr for someone to change, though you need an Aston diagnostics tool (or similar) to open the ABS unit to flush everything through. You’ll need about 3l of brake fluid for the first time, less for subsequent flushes. My favourite is Motul RBF660. Some people like Castrol SRF however it probably twice the price or more and unless you’re running a very fast single seater you’ll probably never know the difference. You’ll need to make sure you change the fluid every 12 months or less as racing brake fluid absorbs water quicker than standards DOT4.
2nd Pads. The V8V GT4’s run Pagid RS29’s. I’ve not run these though I’m told the cold performance is not great. Better would be RS15 or for even more road oriented pad RS4-2. Both the RS29’s and RS15’s are ceramic based pads.
On Vantage S at the moment only RS29’s are available for the front pads, though Pagid are looking into supplying RS15’s to me, though I’m waiting to hear back. The rears pads (not necessarily the callipers) are suppose to be the same as the recent standard Vantage rears which come in at least RS15 & RS29 (there may be more if you check). For the S it looks like you can also get Ferodo DS2500 and DS3000 compounds for the front but I’ve never used these or researched them much, so I can’t comment.
Info on RS compounds http://www.braketechnology.com/racecharacteristics...
Next is cooling. The simplest form is to get some brake ducting hose and tie wrap it securely in place. It’s best to remove the backing plates to allow cooling air to be directed at the disc/calliper (best is both). What is better is to fabricate or purchase backing plates that you can attach the brake duct to. You then need get the other end into a cool flow of air. Other than cutting holes in lower front bumper cover like the GT4’s I don’t have a perfect solution as the car is only to be delivered this week. If you don’t want to do this you can simply have the ducting attached to lower wishbone with the end pointing forward into the airflow. Not ideal but likely better than nothing.
Now it gets expensive…..
Brake calliper and disc upgrade. Some have already mention Bamford Rose’s kit which I think uses 6 pot Alcon callipers. For your info the front callipers on the S look to be (I’ve not physically checked) Audi RS6 6 pot callipers.
I’m sure people with more experience on the Vantage will have some input on this. I’ve not researched this as the S brakes is pretty good starting point (6 pot callipers and floating discs) which I’ll likely improve with the fluid, pad, cooling route as listed above.
As a side note, the original question was on CCM brakes, it quite common practice for people who do track days or racing change from CCM to Steel either for cost reasons, regulations or the fact that if you get CCM too hot then you can really destroy the pads and discs quite quickly, which can add up to 10’s of thousands of pounds.
Swiss_Toni said:
As a side note, the original question was on CCM brakes, it quite common practice for people who do track days or racing change from CCM to Steel either for cost reasons, regulations or the fact that if you get CCM too hot then you can really destroy the pads and discs quite quickly, which can add up to 10’s of thousands of pounds.
Note that the problem with CCM brakes is that under incredibly high load the disc can oxidise. If you have a google for McLaren Mp4-12c CCM you can find a thread (somewhere not on pistonheads) by one of the brake engineers. He goes into a lot of detail about cooling and air ducting requirements (for CCM you cool the disc, for steel or iron you cool the pads). Interesting in a geeky way.When you do the maths on the thermal load it takes quite some doing to oxidise a CCM disc - you have to be working at it...
Oh, and they look way cooler than steel, don't rust and you get perhaps 1% of the dust.
Pagid RS4-2 are OE equipment on Vantages ...well at least they were on the 2 pad changes Ive had...more than enough for my road use and odd trackday 
/maybe they changed them since, I havnt had new pads for over 3 years now (yearly mileage went down a lot) - could explain why im not complaining about the brakes and newer Vantage owners complain of fade...maybe Aston changed OE pad due to all the "squeaky brake" warranty claims
/maybe they changed them since, I havnt had new pads for over 3 years now (yearly mileage went down a lot) - could explain why im not complaining about the brakes and newer Vantage owners complain of fade...maybe Aston changed OE pad due to all the "squeaky brake" warranty claims
George H said:
I was thinking about your brakes before. How do you go on with the holes filling up with brake dust? I remember reading horror stories from Porsche owners with cross drilled brakes having them fill up with brake dust and result in cracking. Do you have to clean them out regularly or is it not really an issue with them?
It hasn't been an issue so far even after a trackday at Goodwood, holes are pristine. Rick said just blow them out every now and again. I think the Porsche guys abuse theirs on track, and more often than not those micro-cracks are just surface it seems. You;d have to do track day after trackday without even looking at them to get that effect. I've always have cross-drilled discs with no problems, I prefer the looks. Even put them on my old Alfa
Zod said:
On my second M3, I got the front discs' holes utterly clogged after a couple of track days. I had to use wooden skewers to clean them.
Sounds like they need to be cleaned after a each trackday then..?I might check mine tonight, can is being disconnected and covered while I head to the moutains for a while. Good time to have a look at it.
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