british grand prix - and some questions???
Discussion
firstly, the british grand prix is but hours away and im surprised to find there are no threads at all apart from understandable complaining about friday quali 1.
am i the only one interested? what do you peeps see or the race? i for one believe schumi, on the wrong side of the grid will be easy meat for the renault behind and looking at 5th going into the first corner? can he win from there?
what of mclaren? an exploding engine? or light on fuel? indeed, while were on the topic, where the hell did they find 1.5, 2 secs a lap. they were nowhere! is the new car really this good? maybe ilmor have returned to form and churned out a good engine?
also - while ive got the ball rolling, what is going on with sato? richards says that hes not bench testing new components on HIS second driver and i believe him. Honda sure as hell wont want THIER man having detonating engines all the time. is it a mystery? satos engines seem to go when he's pusing hard, or maybe he just never gets to the end of the race when its time to ease off a bit? could it be driver influence? with electronics as they are 1) he cant over rev the thing and b) even if he did, it would have been spotted so whats the answer?
am i the only one interested? what do you peeps see or the race? i for one believe schumi, on the wrong side of the grid will be easy meat for the renault behind and looking at 5th going into the first corner? can he win from there?
what of mclaren? an exploding engine? or light on fuel? indeed, while were on the topic, where the hell did they find 1.5, 2 secs a lap. they were nowhere! is the new car really this good? maybe ilmor have returned to form and churned out a good engine?
also - while ive got the ball rolling, what is going on with sato? richards says that hes not bench testing new components on HIS second driver and i believe him. Honda sure as hell wont want THIER man having detonating engines all the time. is it a mystery? satos engines seem to go when he's pusing hard, or maybe he just never gets to the end of the race when its time to ease off a bit? could it be driver influence? with electronics as they are 1) he cant over rev the thing and b) even if he did, it would have been spotted so whats the answer?
I think that people are disenchanted with the season and the farce that was todays qualifying did nothing to help. I don't understand why they changed it from last year myself. We wouldn't have seen that sort of behaviour last year and indeed I found some of the qualifying last year riveting stuff.
I suspect maclaren ran light cos they wanted good publicity, failing that I think there are new components on the car and perhaps they are such that silverstone is suited to the changes.
Remember that Silverstone is becoming a rarity amongst the circuits in some regards. Fast corners, hills plus the British weather is a bit of leveller, denser air, windy, cooler track temps. Expect a good race tho cos there are overtaking opportunities for a change.
Richards indicated that there may be subtle differences in the engine setup routine between Button's engineers and Sato's. It could just be bad luck of course, some drivers just seem prone to it. Although clearly Sato rags his car more than Button cos imho Button is a more talented and smoother driver
I suspect maclaren ran light cos they wanted good publicity, failing that I think there are new components on the car and perhaps they are such that silverstone is suited to the changes.
Remember that Silverstone is becoming a rarity amongst the circuits in some regards. Fast corners, hills plus the British weather is a bit of leveller, denser air, windy, cooler track temps. Expect a good race tho cos there are overtaking opportunities for a change.
Richards indicated that there may be subtle differences in the engine setup routine between Button's engineers and Sato's. It could just be bad luck of course, some drivers just seem prone to it. Although clearly Sato rags his car more than Button cos imho Button is a more talented and smoother driver
It nees a radical shake up, and the only wa I can see it, is if they give the designers a lot more leaway as to what the end product is. They are all the same, and the good team will always be ahead of the pack. Lets have a bit of variation, like when the 6 wheel tyrell came ut, and the fan car, etc. Let the designers have a bit of creativity...
I thought it was quite a humourous comment that Martin Brundle made about the Politicians on his grid walk.
They really need to do something with F1, yesterday in the pre-race show the teams were talking about how they think it's "too risky" to overtake on the track and they'd rather do it in the pits. Although it does get tedious watching Schumacher winning very frequently - what does irritate me is that he went from fourth position to first position without us seeing him overtake a car on the track.
They really need to do something with F1, yesterday in the pre-race show the teams were talking about how they think it's "too risky" to overtake on the track and they'd rather do it in the pits. Although it does get tedious watching Schumacher winning very frequently - what does irritate me is that he went from fourth position to first position without us seeing him overtake a car on the track.
Eric Mc said:
This is 2004, not 1978. 26 years on and a fan car would be holding 200 mph plus in what is currently a 150 mph corner - and don't forget, the fan car was "banned" after one race back in 1978.
They were just examples, but the designers need to be given the leaway to be a bit more creative, instead of being limited to some rather restrictive rules...
I was at a talk with one of the designers for Jordan and what he showed us was pretty much a design for a car, in regulations.
Everything is set, they can't expand, change the dimensions much at all, and for the most part are at the maximum anyway. All the designers can do is fiddle with different profiles of panels, angles of barge-boards and the like. The most dramatic change we are likely to see under the current rules is things like the walrus nose on the Williams.
Did anyone see Max Mosely and Damon Hill on Breakfast with Frost this morn? Hill said what we are all thinking that MM is simply in it for the money and although he introduced some good things on the way up, he's getting out now as the popularity is heading south as is the money he was accustomed to getting. MM looks very annoyed and I think it's fair to say DH won't be near any grand prix's for a while. Good on him!
Everything is set, they can't expand, change the dimensions much at all, and for the most part are at the maximum anyway. All the designers can do is fiddle with different profiles of panels, angles of barge-boards and the like. The most dramatic change we are likely to see under the current rules is things like the walrus nose on the Williams.
Did anyone see Max Mosely and Damon Hill on Breakfast with Frost this morn? Hill said what we are all thinking that MM is simply in it for the money and although he introduced some good things on the way up, he's getting out now as the popularity is heading south as is the money he was accustomed to getting. MM looks very annoyed and I think it's fair to say DH won't be near any grand prix's for a while. Good on him!
Wondered about a new thread for this, but hey, why worry. Agree with Prussianblue 
re qualifying.
But whats this bull about a London G.P. Oh please. its bad enough as it is but to add another Monaco to the calender is plain
What happened in London was a treat for sure, but you see more action every year at F.O.S.
IMHO we have been very fortunate to see Schumi in action, I hope he will retire soon with his records intact and at the top of his game. Fair play he joined the Reds when they were more like 3 legged dogs than prancing wotsits. What do you say?
re qualifying. But whats this bull about a London G.P. Oh please. its bad enough as it is but to add another Monaco to the calender is plain
What happened in London was a treat for sure, but you see more action every year at F.O.S. IMHO we have been very fortunate to see Schumi in action, I hope he will retire soon with his records intact and at the top of his game. Fair play he joined the Reds when they were more like 3 legged dogs than prancing wotsits. What do you say?
crankedup said:
IMHO we have been very fortunate to see Schumi in action, I hope he will retire soon with his records intact and at the top of his game. Fair play he joined the Reds when they were more like 3 legged dogs than prancing wotsits. What do you say?
Cheers, to return the compliment I agree about MS and I agree with what Ross Brawn said today, that we should enjoy it whilst we can. All this bluster about over-taking etc is all very well, but these guys together use their brains/talent and in doing so have created the most consistent run of F1 success in the history of the sport. They do this by out-thinking everybody and in doing so avoid any chance of a race ending incident.
Personally I enjoy this Brawn's brain over brawn contest and he's BRITISH. He seems a most modest decent, thoughtful, interesting and self-effacing bloke who rarely if ever moans about the rules or the other teams.
I personally think he deserves a knighthood and no, I'm not joking, Frank williams has one and you know when he's complaining about something cos his lips are moving.
(and Ferrari were like three legged dogs with a stump until Ross joined them the year after Michael)
>> Edited by prussianblue450 on Sunday 11th July 19:14
>> Edited by prussianblue450 on Sunday 11th July 19:17
Thought it was a fairly enjoyable GP by modern standards. Ok, there wasn't much of a battle for the lead, but there were some good scraps for the lesser places, and we got to see them this time.
Glad to see Trulli's Ok. Not a place you want to have an accident in an F1 car, becuase they're going bloody quickly through there. Nice to see Mr. Allen uttering complete bollox for the majority of the race, as usual
Glad to see Trulli's Ok. Not a place you want to have an accident in an F1 car, becuase they're going bloody quickly through there. Nice to see Mr. Allen uttering complete bollox for the majority of the race, as usual
prussianblue450 said:
Personally I enjoy this Brawn's brain over brawn contest and he's BRITISH. He seems a most modest decent, thoughtful, interesting and self-effacing bloke who rarely if ever moans about the rules or the other teams.
I personally think he deserves a knighthood and no, I'm not joking, Frank williams has one and you know when he's complaining about something cos his lips are moving.
:cough splutter: WHAT? Rarely moans about the rules or other teams, you say? What about persuading the FIA to change the rules regarding front tyre widths because Michelin had found a little loophole that Brdgestone couldn't fully exploit last year. Michelin was within the letter of the rules, so Brawn got the FIA to change the wording! That's not 'playing the game' (like we all do in racing, incidentally), that's just bent!
He was also responsible for the banning of berrilium (sp?) in engines. This particular metal has great friction qualities, so Mercedes was using it in cylinder bores in '98. However, it is also fairly nasty stuff for humans to come into contact with. When Ferrari failed to gain an exclusive supply of it for its engines, it played the safety card to get it banned - Brawn being at the forefront of the lobbying.
Then there was the McLaren 'fiddle brake'. Back in '98 McLaren had a tricky rear brake system that allowed the driver to operate the left and right brakes independently of each other - rather like an ESP system does in a modern road car. FIA Technical Delegate Charlie Whiting declared the system fully legal but, as Ferrari didn't have the system, Brawn managed to get the Brazilian GP race officials to declare it illegal - which they had absolutely no power to do! But the decision stuck and McLaren had to remove it.
Gamesmanship is all part of motor racing. I play the politics game in my Championship, just like everyone else. You expect it to happen in F1 even more, of course, but Brawn doesn't play hard, he plays very, very dirty. There was an interview in Autosport with Adrian Newey (yes, I know, not an entirely impartial man, but absolutely fair) around 18 months ago, where he detailed some of the legal things McLaren developed that Ferrari lobbied the FIA to ban: it was quite astonishing. The person who lead the lobbying was, of course, the Technical Director - one R. Brawn esq.
Of course Brawn is happy at the moment - he's winning constantly. And yes, he is very good at the main part of his job and undoubtedly has a relationship with the Kerpen Cobbler as good as Chapman/Clark had. But let's see what happens if the McLaren starts winning races - the moaning and complaining will return.
As for the comparison with Sir Frank - Williams GPE was built from absolutely nothing, operating out of a phone box, to what it is today. There's a lot more to him than the miserable-looking man (miserable because he's been in constant pain for 18 years after the crash that paralysed him) you see on TV.
And that's the end of my lengthy rant. Sorry if it sounded personal, it wasn't, but the subject of Ross Brawn is one that rattles my cage - but only slightly...
Actually I suppose I see what you're saying, I must admit I'm not as close to the word on the F1 circuit as I used to be.
But people have short memories, I remember that during the season Mansell won the championship I barely even watched it because the Williams was just different class. These days everybody raves on about the golden days of Mansell.
Here, now, we have a Brit who's well and truly at the top of his game. The problems with the sport should not detract from the fact that the rules are the same for everyone and Brawn is running an awesome campaign and has clearly added a competitive edge to every team he's been at for the last 10 years or so.
Without Brawn Schumacher's trophy wing would only need to be the size of one small house
>> Edited by prussianblue450 on Sunday 11th July 21:39
But people have short memories, I remember that during the season Mansell won the championship I barely even watched it because the Williams was just different class. These days everybody raves on about the golden days of Mansell.
Here, now, we have a Brit who's well and truly at the top of his game. The problems with the sport should not detract from the fact that the rules are the same for everyone and Brawn is running an awesome campaign and has clearly added a competitive edge to every team he's been at for the last 10 years or so.
Without Brawn Schumacher's trophy wing would only need to be the size of one small house
>> Edited by prussianblue450 on Sunday 11th July 21:39
One of our guys was at the race yesterday (lucky bstard). He is a died in the wool engineer - so really appreciates the cars, and was in the Ferarri pit (courtecy of their bearing supplier) an hour before the start. Doesn't really get any better.
Unfortunately, he came back in today saying that it is more fun watching us race in the Ginettas.
A real shame - but I'd only taken a passing interest in the whole F1 needs to change before now (other than a few rants over capping spending somehow). However, when a day like that can be ruined by a feeling that even the invited guests are somehow surplus to requirements, then we need a step change in attitudes.
I too am in awe of what Ross Brawn has achieved, but I'd agree that he takes it too far. Having said that, it is not the responsibility of the teams to put on a good show. It is up to Bernie with the support of the FIA to regulate it as such.
Banning refuling would be a good start :beenherebefore:
Unfortunately, he came back in today saying that it is more fun watching us race in the Ginettas.
A real shame - but I'd only taken a passing interest in the whole F1 needs to change before now (other than a few rants over capping spending somehow). However, when a day like that can be ruined by a feeling that even the invited guests are somehow surplus to requirements, then we need a step change in attitudes.
I too am in awe of what Ross Brawn has achieved, but I'd agree that he takes it too far. Having said that, it is not the responsibility of the teams to put on a good show. It is up to Bernie with the support of the FIA to regulate it as such.
Banning refuling would be a good start :beenherebefore:
Did you say ban refuelling? Amen to that!
During the race yesterday I complained more than an after-dinner speech from Sir Frank himself (apologies - terrible gag, I know). To get the spectacle back in F1 you need guys going for overtaking manoeuvours (sp?), dicing nose to tail, keeping their foot on in the corners, lunging in late on the brakes etc. Yes there's a certain element of danger to it, but then surely that's half the point. Who has the bigger balls to drive that bit closer to 'the edge', who can outwit and line-up their opponents for a move etc.
The cars are made much stronger today (look at Trulli's crash for an example of that) and safety has improved dramatically, but they haven't got the mix right. The drama and excitement of a guys taking the extra risk is what you need, otherwise anyone will think they could be an F1 driver.
During the race yesterday I complained more than an after-dinner speech from Sir Frank himself (apologies - terrible gag, I know). To get the spectacle back in F1 you need guys going for overtaking manoeuvours (sp?), dicing nose to tail, keeping their foot on in the corners, lunging in late on the brakes etc. Yes there's a certain element of danger to it, but then surely that's half the point. Who has the bigger balls to drive that bit closer to 'the edge', who can outwit and line-up their opponents for a move etc.
The cars are made much stronger today (look at Trulli's crash for an example of that) and safety has improved dramatically, but they haven't got the mix right. The drama and excitement of a guys taking the extra risk is what you need, otherwise anyone will think they could be an F1 driver.
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