Discussion
Well after watching top gear on sunday night for once they actually have a vision of the future for motor vehicles, the stunning fisker karma.
Now its got me thinking that here is a relatively small company that has got the situation nailed with the whole electric vehicle problem and thats range, yeah just like boats and trains you use a engine to provide the power to the electric generator for when the batteries range gets low, and the figures are pretty impressive.......up to 50 miles on the battery alone and up to 300 miles with a top up for the generator but its the torque thats simply wow 2x 479 lbft motors, problem is its a bit pricey.
So why cant mainstream car manufacturers give us electric/hybrid vehicles like this that people could actually use in the real world in real world conditions, unlike these style-less, mega short range piles of junk they are trying to palm off on us like the leaf, prius and the whole up and coming electric renault range.
Now if audi could build something like this in the next gen A4 for max 35-40 grand then you could count me in, hell they could even call it the E-line , what do you guys think ?
Now its got me thinking that here is a relatively small company that has got the situation nailed with the whole electric vehicle problem and thats range, yeah just like boats and trains you use a engine to provide the power to the electric generator for when the batteries range gets low, and the figures are pretty impressive.......up to 50 miles on the battery alone and up to 300 miles with a top up for the generator but its the torque thats simply wow 2x 479 lbft motors, problem is its a bit pricey.
So why cant mainstream car manufacturers give us electric/hybrid vehicles like this that people could actually use in the real world in real world conditions, unlike these style-less, mega short range piles of junk they are trying to palm off on us like the leaf, prius and the whole up and coming electric renault range.
Now if audi could build something like this in the next gen A4 for max 35-40 grand then you could count me in, hell they could even call it the E-line , what do you guys think ?
I like it a lot. The animal friendly interior also ticks a box.
For shorter journeys to the shops it is all electric. For longer runs it uses a generator as well. Best of both worlds. It also looks like a car for the 21st Century.
The new models from Tesla are also worthy of a look as well.
For shorter journeys to the shops it is all electric. For longer runs it uses a generator as well. Best of both worlds. It also looks like a car for the 21st Century.
The new models from Tesla are also worthy of a look as well.
It may sound good, but in practice I'm not sure.
1. You're still using either petrol or diesel
2. You're carrying around a large battery pack that increases the weight
3. You also have two electric motors
Now I don't know how efficient the engine/generator/motor system is, but to me it's going the wrong way. Surely the way to make cars better is to shed as much weight as possible so you don't need massive engines (and the associated massive brakes). Lotus has the right idea when they launched the original Esprit - 160bhp in a car that weighed less than a ton.
1. You're still using either petrol or diesel
2. You're carrying around a large battery pack that increases the weight
3. You also have two electric motors
Now I don't know how efficient the engine/generator/motor system is, but to me it's going the wrong way. Surely the way to make cars better is to shed as much weight as possible so you don't need massive engines (and the associated massive brakes). Lotus has the right idea when they launched the original Esprit - 160bhp in a car that weighed less than a ton.
The issue is that its not actually more efficient to use the power as James suggested. Each time you handle the power you lose energy. The engine is only a 2.0 4 pot Vauxhall lump not optimised for a genset. The Chevy Volt started off as a similar concept until testing proved running a direct link between engine and wheels, ie mechanical, picked up 15% better MPG in charge sustaining highway speed cruising.
I wish they would get on with this concept, I see it as the future. It's a car which requires very little or no behavioural change in order to use. Surely hydrogen technology could plug and play the ICE+generator pretty easily once (if?) that technology comes on stream.
The motor for each wheel concept really interests me just for the possibilities. Look at what Fisker have done with this car and Jag with the jet engine powered concept, the amout of power that can be produced is stunning, and these are effectively the beta test cars for the tech as well. What will they be like in second or third generation in 20-30 years time?
Couple this development to my preferred solution which would be to develop algae based biofuel production and then everyone's on to a winner. Hopefully.
The motor for each wheel concept really interests me just for the possibilities. Look at what Fisker have done with this car and Jag with the jet engine powered concept, the amout of power that can be produced is stunning, and these are effectively the beta test cars for the tech as well. What will they be like in second or third generation in 20-30 years time?
Couple this development to my preferred solution which would be to develop algae based biofuel production and then everyone's on to a winner. Hopefully.
The fuel efficiency of range extenders is massively linked to how far you travel - the longer the journey the greater the % of time you are running with the petrol engine running and therefore less efficient
I still think the range extender concept is the best option out there currently
I still think the range extender concept is the best option out there currently
The_Burg said:
Why does it use a 2litre petrol engine to charge? Surely a diesel running at a steady low RPM would be far more efficient?
Compromise for the car's "sporty" appearance I'd guess.But as you say, the advantage of the range-extender concept is the engine can run at maximum efficiency for the generator rather than the variable efficiency of normal cars.
The_Burg said:
Why does it use a 2litre petrol engine to charge? Surely a diesel running at a steady low RPM would be far more efficient?
NVH predominantly - much easier to isolate the vibrations and noise from a petrol engine than a diesel. Plus the difference in efficiency isn't actually that great when running under optimal conditions. I would have thought a small wankel engine would have been the obvious choice - incredibly smooth, simple, compact, and as efficient else as anything in this application. It does look beautiful, but I think it (and other hybrids) are just eco-red herrings.
The numbers come from wiki so we can question if this is right, but it doesn't look wonderful:
Top speed: 125
0-60: 5.8
Weight: 2400kg
Just to pick a well-known 4 door saloon for comparison (you guys advise me if it falls into the same competitive market), the heaviest E60 is quoted as nearly 700kg lighter (1735kg). Wouldn't swapping the two electric motors and batteries for a mechanical transmission give similar (or better) performance for similar fuel economy? (34mpg).
Having said that, the CO2/100km does seem very low, so that might be the eco difference.
The numbers come from wiki so we can question if this is right, but it doesn't look wonderful:
Top speed: 125
0-60: 5.8
Weight: 2400kg
Just to pick a well-known 4 door saloon for comparison (you guys advise me if it falls into the same competitive market), the heaviest E60 is quoted as nearly 700kg lighter (1735kg). Wouldn't swapping the two electric motors and batteries for a mechanical transmission give similar (or better) performance for similar fuel economy? (34mpg).
Having said that, the CO2/100km does seem very low, so that might be the eco difference.
The point of a range extender hybrid is that the majority of journeys can be done purely on electricity drawn from the grid, which in theory can be generated relatively cleanly (even if it isn't at the moment). The economy tests simply don't work with plug-in hybrids - they give all sorts of daft results.
That does make doing it with a huge saloon seem stupid to me though, because its the kind of car which will typically cover fairly large mileages. Things like the Ampera make a lot more sense because they'll mostly be used for the school run/supermarket which are journeys which can be done on full electric power.
That does make doing it with a huge saloon seem stupid to me though, because its the kind of car which will typically cover fairly large mileages. Things like the Ampera make a lot more sense because they'll mostly be used for the school run/supermarket which are journeys which can be done on full electric power.
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