Discussion
Has it gone the way of white Dog Poo ?
Was just pondering how it used to be a big issue but now it scarcely happens, my old 944 has a couple of little scabs so I will have to attend to them (not on the sills before the doom mongers start) but you just don't see rusty cars anymore.
Not getting nostalgic as it was a depressing thing, you washed your P and J and saw the scabs that were forming for it.Was wondering when you last dealt with any ? my last car was an nine year old Saab and it had no hint of rust anywhere on the body, some on the suspension compnents but basically none.
Whenever I look in a Classic car magazine they have pictures of abandoned classics, usually that some brave fool will attempt to restore but also cars from the sixties, seventies and eighties that are so far gone they are collapsing in on themselves (Late nineties Mercs as well), I wonder what would happen if you say took a brand new quality car, Three series BMW for example and left it outside and never used it, how long would it last before that happened ? would it happen, assume it is immune to vandalism and just left in the open on concrete in a UK climate, what would it look like after 100 years, could it be re-commissioned ?
Was just pondering how it used to be a big issue but now it scarcely happens, my old 944 has a couple of little scabs so I will have to attend to them (not on the sills before the doom mongers start) but you just don't see rusty cars anymore.
Not getting nostalgic as it was a depressing thing, you washed your P and J and saw the scabs that were forming for it.Was wondering when you last dealt with any ? my last car was an nine year old Saab and it had no hint of rust anywhere on the body, some on the suspension compnents but basically none.
Whenever I look in a Classic car magazine they have pictures of abandoned classics, usually that some brave fool will attempt to restore but also cars from the sixties, seventies and eighties that are so far gone they are collapsing in on themselves (Late nineties Mercs as well), I wonder what would happen if you say took a brand new quality car, Three series BMW for example and left it outside and never used it, how long would it last before that happened ? would it happen, assume it is immune to vandalism and just left in the open on concrete in a UK climate, what would it look like after 100 years, could it be re-commissioned ?
I generally agree with you on this. Some of us have been bought up to be paranoid of the stuff (both white dog poo and rust). When I had my Lancia in 2007, there was one tiny bodywork blemish on a door skin that only I ever noticed. I used to monitor it like an eagle. But it never developed into anything. TBH I don't even know if it was rust or just a small paint defect (it had been resprayed), but the memories of Russian steel lived on long in my mind. I pretty much refused to drive it in the wet for that reason, so it had to go. I was probably just too sensitive to it.
You rightly mention late 1990s Mercs as the current exception, but when you think about it they're about 15 years old now as well. If you cast your mind back to 1990, you'd expect any 15 year-old steel-bodied car built in 1975 to have rusted significantly by then.
You rightly mention late 1990s Mercs as the current exception, but when you think about it they're about 15 years old now as well. If you cast your mind back to 1990, you'd expect any 15 year-old steel-bodied car built in 1975 to have rusted significantly by then.
Modern cars do use high quality steel, with high tech anti-rusting procedures. However, modern cars also use more plastic, aluminium etc and less rust prone steel. If you look at the amount of steel bodywork on show on a modern small car, theres not much. The whole front end, most of the back end and sometimes even the wings are plastic (like the clio).
30 years ago, people would continually patch up their old bangor year after year to keep it on the road, despite it starting to look a bit 'worse for wear' and all they needed was a basic tool kit a haynes manual and some cheap parts from the local car shop!
Modern cars have become a 'throw away' item. Not many live to be much over 10 years old, and as not many people can fix their own cars nowadays - ah we need to plug it into the computer to see what the problem is........oh you need a complete new whatever, that will be £350.00 + VAT!!
The low cost of second hand cars (relatively speaking) and the high cost of keeping them on the road (see above) means that they end up in the scrap yard after a relatively short life.
Hence, not many rusty bangors on our roads today!
30 years ago, people would continually patch up their old bangor year after year to keep it on the road, despite it starting to look a bit 'worse for wear' and all they needed was a basic tool kit a haynes manual and some cheap parts from the local car shop!
Modern cars have become a 'throw away' item. Not many live to be much over 10 years old, and as not many people can fix their own cars nowadays - ah we need to plug it into the computer to see what the problem is........oh you need a complete new whatever, that will be £350.00 + VAT!!
The low cost of second hand cars (relatively speaking) and the high cost of keeping them on the road (see above) means that they end up in the scrap yard after a relatively short life.
Hence, not many rusty bangors on our roads today!
My 2000 Fiesta was rusting away merrily when I sold it. One of the rear arches was turning inside out with rust, on the other side of the car what started as a tiny rust spot turned into a big patch that was eating its way right through the sill. Total crap body work and a carpet undertray at the rear of the car, perfect for trapping salt and moisture, were to blame. The front end of the car was perfect, as you'd expect for a car that had only done 20,000 miles in good weather, but the rear end was a total mess.
Rust does seem to be pretty much sorted - maybe you get some cosmetic corrosion here and there but it's not like cars are failing their first MOTs on structural rot anymore. Worst I can think of locally is a MK1 Focus which inexplicably is rust free except for the driver's side door, which has proper '60s/'70s style rust holes - actual holes - along the bottom. I assume it's a bad accident repair - maybe someone's welded in a repair panel rather than replace the door?
Ford KA ( old style) are real rust buckets.
My wife and three children all had KA's for years.
Every one was rotting (not surface rust) by the end of four years.
Just scrapped the last one 60,000 miles 2001 rotten as a pear underneath.
All suffered around the rear door locks, in the sills, on the rear floor, wheel arches, really very poor.
Whereas my 2000 Volvo S40 just gone 250,000 miles, no rust, not a spot, absolutely immaculate inside and out everything worked sunroof, central locking, windows, stereo, lights by far the best car I ever owned.
Still!
A Magnificent workhorse towed a 2 ton trailer with race cars on still on the original clutch. You could not ask for better quality.
But Ford Ka's are rust buckets.
My wife and three children all had KA's for years.
Every one was rotting (not surface rust) by the end of four years.
Just scrapped the last one 60,000 miles 2001 rotten as a pear underneath.
All suffered around the rear door locks, in the sills, on the rear floor, wheel arches, really very poor.
Whereas my 2000 Volvo S40 just gone 250,000 miles, no rust, not a spot, absolutely immaculate inside and out everything worked sunroof, central locking, windows, stereo, lights by far the best car I ever owned.
Still!
A Magnificent workhorse towed a 2 ton trailer with race cars on still on the original clutch. You could not ask for better quality.
But Ford Ka's are rust buckets.
My 11 year old Golf Mk4 is still pristine thanks to having galvanised body panels. Stone chips and scrapes are there but just dont rust.
My Vauxhall Omega on the other hand (a year youngr than the golf) has a badly rusted rear arch on one side which will probably mean it gets scrapped before summer as the value of the car is so low anyway the rust wil probably make it impossible to sell. Shame as its a good car, but I think people are not used to seeing rust any more.
My Vauxhall Omega on the other hand (a year youngr than the golf) has a badly rusted rear arch on one side which will probably mean it gets scrapped before summer as the value of the car is so low anyway the rust wil probably make it impossible to sell. Shame as its a good car, but I think people are not used to seeing rust any more.
El Capitano said:
Well, 944s are galvanised so they generally don't get too bad. But things like Ford pumas etc were a 'fairly'
Modern car that rusted badly around the rear arches.
As did the KA, and the Fiesta. Modern car that rusted badly around the rear arches.
All based on Fiesta floorpan.
Presumably rust proofing is not profitable for Fords
busta said:
Seen quite a few Mk IV golfs with rusty arches, although I guess some of them are 12-13 years old now.
It's an interesting idea about sticking a car outside and not using it. As the main cause of rust on UK cars is road salt, I imagine it would last a long time!
The grit/salt is the killer it has fIt's an interesting idea about sticking a car outside and not using it. As the main cause of rust on UK cars is road salt, I imagine it would last a long time!
ked my dailyI'll have to get MX-5 in this thread! Yep late 90's Fords especially mark 5 Fiestas are terrible round the arches. KA's especially round the filler cap. In general I agree though rust is nowhere near as big an issue as it was even 15 years ago. I bought my first car in 1996 at age 17 and was looking at ten year old cars then. I didn't come across one that didn't have at least a small bit of rust. Nowadays it would be terrible for a 10 year old car to have any rust. I have a V reg Seat Toledo with no rust whatsover in part thanks to the galvanised body and partly because I have car cleaning OCD.
Buggles said:
Steffan said:
Whereas my 2000 Volvo S40 just gone 250,000 miles, no rust, not a spot, absolutely immaculate inside and out everything worked sunroof, central locking, windows, stereo, lights by far the best car I ever owned.
Still!
A Magnificent workhorse towed a 2 ton trailer with race cars on still on the original clutch. You could not ask for better quality.
Slightly O/T but I one million percent agree with this. We've a 2002 S40 and it is an absolutely faultless machine. Has taken everything in it's stride, everything works, and is still going stronger than ever. Still!
A Magnificent workhorse towed a 2 ton trailer with race cars on still on the original clutch. You could not ask for better quality.
Other manufacturers may make sexier cars, quicker cars, more fun cars.
Reliability = Volvo.
My mx5 had a new sill at some point but it was on it's way out again within three or four years - that was a '90 MK1. I've seen plenty of BMWs and many Mercedes less than ten years old with some rot - not rust - on the rear arches and front wings. I think VAGs seem to keep the rust at bay - both my MK2 golf and my Scirocco were totally rot free and although it was a while ago that I owned them they were both well over a decade old at the time. The last shape Ka is notorious for it too.
Today there are better ways to mould plastic so most cars have inner arch liners etc which help reduce rust catchment areas through a build up of mud - which never dries out. Plus (I'm probably wrong) but it seems that people are more into cleaning cars than they used to be and there are more forecourt jet washers or eastern european car washes around now. Even my dad buys auto glym whereas back in the 70's and 80's he'd happily use washing up liquid, so perhaps this is leading people to look after their cars bodywork prolonging it?
I don't personally think the quality of metal is much better today, it might be a better grade of steel but it is nowhere near as thick as it used to be. If I pressed too hard whilst polishing my last renault, which was only a few years old, it would easily leave a dent on the roof - all the 60's 70's cars I've had were much more durable to car park dents and general abuse - in the future I doubt you'll see banger boys racing 90's / 00's renault around a track - I garuntee they'll fall to bits after the first couple of blows against big xj8's or MK1 Granadas.
Today there are better ways to mould plastic so most cars have inner arch liners etc which help reduce rust catchment areas through a build up of mud - which never dries out. Plus (I'm probably wrong) but it seems that people are more into cleaning cars than they used to be and there are more forecourt jet washers or eastern european car washes around now. Even my dad buys auto glym whereas back in the 70's and 80's he'd happily use washing up liquid, so perhaps this is leading people to look after their cars bodywork prolonging it?
I don't personally think the quality of metal is much better today, it might be a better grade of steel but it is nowhere near as thick as it used to be. If I pressed too hard whilst polishing my last renault, which was only a few years old, it would easily leave a dent on the roof - all the 60's 70's cars I've had were much more durable to car park dents and general abuse - in the future I doubt you'll see banger boys racing 90's / 00's renault around a track - I garuntee they'll fall to bits after the first couple of blows against big xj8's or MK1 Granadas.
Edited by RV8 on Tuesday 21st February 18:10
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