Discussion
My radiator has started leaking from the corner somewher near the bottom pipe. Barrs seal has reduced it to about 1 drop a second when hot but obviously I need to get it seen to properly. Colleagues have recommended a re-core with a heavy duty core. Have any PH readers tried this, or any recommendations? I beleive it's a Land Rover unit with a modified outlet - so can any decent garage obtain/replace the unti?
Either take it to a specilaist and get them to recore it or remove the rad yourself (not difficult but messy and liable to scratch paintworkif you don't protect it or take sufficient care and get someone like Sercks-Marston to redo it. As for ordering a Land Rover rad and modifying it... Forget it. The mods are quite significant and the costs far more than getting a recore. etc.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
If you decide to remove the radiator yourself, pay the extra and have it re-cored. Some places may offer to repair it for a very reasonable sum, however in my experience these repairs don’t last long and you’ll have to strip it all out again. As Steve say’s not difficult but fiddly and time consuming. I don’t remember exactly, but I think Serks wanted about £80 for a re-core.
Cheers,
Simon.
Cheers,
Simon.
Well double the costs for an ally one for a start.
They are also expensive to repair (had something hit the 520 while sprinting at Goodwood and punch a hole through the rad the size of a fist despite an ally grill and stone guard. Result is possibly a write-off but a four week tournaround as not many people make them.
The second thing is that you can overcool these cars and then you stop the ECU adaptings its settings for your engine. End result is that it effectively runs on a default mode. The engine runs cooler and that reduces fuel consumption by about 15-20% and also it can increase engine wear.
So I don't automatically think they are a good thing. Several people have tried them but I think it has been to do with solving a symptom rather than anything else.
It is a lot cheaper to get the existing rad three cored and uprate it that way. For most people I am would say save the money and buy some better brakes. If the car is hammered everyday on a track, may be worth while.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
They are also expensive to repair (had something hit the 520 while sprinting at Goodwood and punch a hole through the rad the size of a fist despite an ally grill and stone guard. Result is possibly a write-off but a four week tournaround as not many people make them.
The second thing is that you can overcool these cars and then you stop the ECU adaptings its settings for your engine. End result is that it effectively runs on a default mode. The engine runs cooler and that reduces fuel consumption by about 15-20% and also it can increase engine wear.
So I don't automatically think they are a good thing. Several people have tried them but I think it has been to do with solving a symptom rather than anything else.
It is a lot cheaper to get the existing rad three cored and uprate it that way. For most people I am would say save the money and buy some better brakes. If the car is hammered everyday on a track, may be worth while.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
When I first got my Griff I had numerous problems with overheating and leaky cooling system and I was convinced that after market stuff like ally rads and variable temp switches etc. was the way to go, the experienced guy’s kept talking me out of it and I’m glad they did. If however you go sprinting etc. then fair enough give these thing a try.
My theory now is that the Griff Rad is not ideally mounted, the core has little support and flexes so ultimately you will always get leaks over time (I suspect an ally Rad is more expensive to re-core).
Sort out all the leaks, re-core don’t waste time and effort on a repair, fit the correct thermostat and otterswich. Replace the splitter (a very underrated item) and fit a fan override switch (for heavy traffic).
Having been through the pain of learning this I know it all works. Now as soon as I hear the fans come on in traffic, I switch on the override to stop them cutting in and out, then switch them back to auto once were moving again.
Cheers,
Simon.
My theory now is that the Griff Rad is not ideally mounted, the core has little support and flexes so ultimately you will always get leaks over time (I suspect an ally Rad is more expensive to re-core).
Sort out all the leaks, re-core don’t waste time and effort on a repair, fit the correct thermostat and otterswich. Replace the splitter (a very underrated item) and fit a fan override switch (for heavy traffic).
Having been through the pain of learning this I know it all works. Now as soon as I hear the fans come on in traffic, I switch on the override to stop them cutting in and out, then switch them back to auto once were moving again.
Cheers,
Simon.
I was thinking of fitting an fan override switch on my Griff for the same reason, and also to clear the water from the fans after washing the car, or when it's been out in the rain, as water sits in the fan mechanism, which corroded the bearings in one of mine to the point where the fan jammed. Luckily I didn't learn the hard way, but I so easily could've done! Anyway, what puts me off is where and how to fit the switch, and where to wire it to. Simon, have you got any tips?
Regards,
Dan.
Regards,
Dan.
The simplest way is as Quinny said, wire across the otter switch. However if you want a more complex way and don’t want to run wire round the engine bay and through the bulkhead then you can wire to one of the fan relays. I haven’t got the details with me as I’m working away from home, I’ll mail you direct at the weekend.
Cheers,
Simon.
Cheers,
Simon.
quote:It is covered in the Griff bible along with the extra mod that lights a LED when the fans come on or the overide switch is used.
Simple works for me. Are there any issues with shorting out the otter-switch though? Will I need a relay, or is the otter-switch low enough current to do without it? Did you use a standard toggle switch from a 'Halfords type' place?
The otter switch is low current so you won't need a relay.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
quote:
That's a good point about washing. I suppose if you play a hose on the bonnet, the water runs straight down the gap into the radiator - then sits there and rusts it. Stupendous design!
Except that rust means iron or steel and the rad is made from copper/brass. Considering it is full of coolant which is mainly water and gets heated to near 100 degrees and subjected to tremendous vibration, it could be argued that it is a miriacle it holds together anyway. Most problems are caused by the rad flexing and weakening the joints so that the water pressure and heat causes them to leak from the inside out.
A lot more water gets onto the rad when the car is driven in the wet anyway.
Please don't do what one S owner had done and paint the rad with hammerite to stop it corroding. All the fins were blocked and the car overheated like a good un!
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
'Most problems are caused by the rad flexing and weakening the joints'
Can't the rad be fixed on flexible mounts to help prevent this? In fact there does appear to be a strip of something underneath my rad at an angle but whether it's supposed to be there or it just fell in from somewhere else I don't know!
Can't the rad be fixed on flexible mounts to help prevent this? In fact there does appear to be a strip of something underneath my rad at an angle but whether it's supposed to be there or it just fell in from somewhere else I don't know!
Rad latest: I've just taken the Griff down to my local garage - a good bunch - who quoted £275 + VAT to remove, re-core and re-fit it. They would get the core from Sheldrakes (Ipswich) who apparently supply Kerridges TVR.
Hence I'm likely to get the right part and have the work done well. Do you think it's a reasonable price before I go ahead?
Hence I'm likely to get the right part and have the work done well. Do you think it's a reasonable price before I go ahead?
Have They done a Griff rad before and are they conscientious (it’s easy to do some real damage to the body work if they start to rush it) if your not convinced I’d check a TVR specialist price first.
Don’t worry about getting the right part as these are not common items prices are based on exchange and the repairers will rebuild your original, normal turn round is next working day (however a TVR main dealer may have some in stock).
Cheers,
Simon.
Don’t worry about getting the right part as these are not common items prices are based on exchange and the repairers will rebuild your original, normal turn round is next working day (however a TVR main dealer may have some in stock).
Cheers,
Simon.
The core matrix are all basically standard and come in different tube arrangement, thickness etc. the repairers will select one that matches your original and cut it size and re-build the Rad using your original end caps.
The part of the Rad assembly that TVR mess with are the inlet/outlet tubes and mounting brackets welded to the end caps.
Some older Griff Rads had less rows in and can be re-build with a denser core (more tubes) which can improve things at little cost.
The matrix is attached to the end caps with a form of solder, when a Griff Rad fails it is often this joint that cracks and if the core is in good condition the repairer may offer to simply re-solder this joint. It is this type of repair that in my opinion is not worth doing since the whole core matrix is likely to be fatigued and may fail elsewhere shortly.
Sorry about the confusion, hope this helps.
Cheers,
Simon.
The part of the Rad assembly that TVR mess with are the inlet/outlet tubes and mounting brackets welded to the end caps.
Some older Griff Rads had less rows in and can be re-build with a denser core (more tubes) which can improve things at little cost.
The matrix is attached to the end caps with a form of solder, when a Griff Rad fails it is often this joint that cracks and if the core is in good condition the repairer may offer to simply re-solder this joint. It is this type of repair that in my opinion is not worth doing since the whole core matrix is likely to be fatigued and may fail elsewhere shortly.
Sorry about the confusion, hope this helps.
Cheers,
Simon.
I have an ally rad fitted (Chimaera 500). Steve has a point about the extra cost (mine was £540) and potential repair costs, but ...
Ally rads are inherently stronger as well as more efficient. The cores are welded, not soldered, thus removing (what Steve admits is) a weak point.
The point about overcooling is a good one, but surely the thermostat will determine coolant temperature? The radiators jobs is to get rid of excess heat once the thermostat has opened, and the more efficient the radiator the more quickly this will happen, which can only be a good thing IMHO. Anyway, you could always use a rad blind to reduce its effiency - I'd rather start from a position of strength!
Incidentally I did not fit an ally rad due to any inherent problem with the car, it is just my belief that the 500 rad is borderline in being able to cope with the heat generated by the 500 engine. I had a couple of rad failures, the first directly attributable to fan failure (the resultant overheating weakened the rad and it split in several places soon after) and the second I can only assume was vibration failure. In both cases the rads split at the core/reservoir soldered joints.
In my case I can say I have spent more in replacing standard rads than the ally one cost, and I am confident now that (accidental damage aside) I now have a cooling system that has plenty in reserve and a radiator strong enough to last a decade at least. My opinion on Megnecor HT leads differs from Steve for similar reasons (yes, a set of new standard leads will do the job, but the Magnecor leads will continue to do so for an awful long time and will pay for themselves in the long run).
Maybe my intention to keep my Chimaera and hand it down as an heirloom goes hand in hand with my desire to over engineer every aspect of it!
I'm confident that my rad is well enough protected - though I would think twice about fitting one to a 'facelift' Chimaera (no grille).
Oh, and the rad looks very 'cool' (oh dear, terrible pun!).
Ally rads are inherently stronger as well as more efficient. The cores are welded, not soldered, thus removing (what Steve admits is) a weak point.
The point about overcooling is a good one, but surely the thermostat will determine coolant temperature? The radiators jobs is to get rid of excess heat once the thermostat has opened, and the more efficient the radiator the more quickly this will happen, which can only be a good thing IMHO. Anyway, you could always use a rad blind to reduce its effiency - I'd rather start from a position of strength!
Incidentally I did not fit an ally rad due to any inherent problem with the car, it is just my belief that the 500 rad is borderline in being able to cope with the heat generated by the 500 engine. I had a couple of rad failures, the first directly attributable to fan failure (the resultant overheating weakened the rad and it split in several places soon after) and the second I can only assume was vibration failure. In both cases the rads split at the core/reservoir soldered joints.
In my case I can say I have spent more in replacing standard rads than the ally one cost, and I am confident now that (accidental damage aside) I now have a cooling system that has plenty in reserve and a radiator strong enough to last a decade at least. My opinion on Megnecor HT leads differs from Steve for similar reasons (yes, a set of new standard leads will do the job, but the Magnecor leads will continue to do so for an awful long time and will pay for themselves in the long run).
Maybe my intention to keep my Chimaera and hand it down as an heirloom goes hand in hand with my desire to over engineer every aspect of it!
I'm confident that my rad is well enough protected - though I would think twice about fitting one to a 'facelift' Chimaera (no grille).
Oh, and the rad looks very 'cool' (oh dear, terrible pun!).
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