Discussion
Has anyone out there had their 4.7 Vantage modded with either a BR or Quiksilver manifold and exhaust. I am teetering but looking for reassurance. I fully understand that AM need to produce a car for World wide compliance. I have been told that whilst I might gain top end power the car will lose drivability whatever that is. Mike at BR very kindly took me out in Jessica; what a car! Can I really expect a 40BHP increase? I have spoken at length to AM that don't percieve any problems. Is the gearbox and clutch strong enough to cope with the extra power. The thought of the gearbox detonating itself is to much to thinkabout. The loss of weight from the lighter exhaust I suppose should help the clutch, how long do clutches last? My S has a SS2 gearbox which is fantastic. If anything was to go wrong it would be spare bedroom for some considerable time!!
Rob a 10% increase in power will not suddenly cause your gearbox or clutch to fail. Car manufacturers would not build a car with such fine tolerances. I have modded cars 50% and not seen issues, but above that I have seen gearboxes start to fail, due to the excessive torque that was being put through them.
I am sure that BR have factored in the routing of the pipework and any additional heat that these components may or may not produce into their testing.
Stop worrying and get it done. The moment I see teh V12 manifolds are available, I am in the queue
I am sure that BR have factored in the routing of the pipework and any additional heat that these components may or may not produce into their testing.
Stop worrying and get it done. The moment I see teh V12 manifolds are available, I am in the queue
Rob
Don't panic on the extra power & torque those figures are only delivered at full throttle and at the top end of the rev range (ie not during "gentle" driving )
We all get hung up on these quoted figures.
The BR system is designed to improve drivability (no reduce it ) by giving more torque lower down.
It is the torque that will "detonate" the box/clutch but the BR systems does not increase it enough.
Forget weight saving there is very little in it.
Don't panic on the extra power & torque those figures are only delivered at full throttle and at the top end of the rev range (ie not during "gentle" driving
)We all get hung up on these quoted figures.
The BR system is designed to improve drivability (no reduce it
) by giving more torque lower down.It is the torque that will "detonate" the box/clutch but the BR systems does not increase it enough.
Forget weight saving there is very little in it.
Rob I still love your garage... brilliant!
The truth is the exhaust really is loud enough to wake the dead as standard, it is just that the interior is well insulated,
Option A - just take the rear parcel shelf out and hey presto it's twice as loud...so it feels faster!
Option B - buy a Roadster, it's four times as loud roof down, and with the wind factor it feels twice as quick.... MikeyK is a shrewd cookie...
Option C - (and why not!)If you go the modified exhaust and cat's route, keep the original for resale and be sure to check that you don't get any internal resonance in the car. Some cat/exhaust options can create a rather nasty resonance in the car at certain revs, which can drive you nuts. I'm sure the guys that have had the Bamford Rose (Quicksilver etc) conversion will let you know if there is any resonance/vibration, which can potentially ruin your driving enjoyment.
The truth is the exhaust really is loud enough to wake the dead as standard, it is just that the interior is well insulated,
Option A - just take the rear parcel shelf out and hey presto it's twice as loud...so it feels faster!
Option B - buy a Roadster, it's four times as loud roof down, and with the wind factor it feels twice as quick.... MikeyK is a shrewd cookie...
Option C - (and why not!)If you go the modified exhaust and cat's route, keep the original for resale and be sure to check that you don't get any internal resonance in the car. Some cat/exhaust options can create a rather nasty resonance in the car at certain revs, which can drive you nuts. I'm sure the guys that have had the Bamford Rose (Quicksilver etc) conversion will let you know if there is any resonance/vibration, which can potentially ruin your driving enjoyment.
Edited by Grant3 on Monday 11th June 12:03
robgt said:
I have been told that whilst I might gain top end power the car will lose drivability whatever that is.
Who the hell told you that... and more importantly had they actually either been out in, or driven a BR modified car? I have had the pleasure of both being driven in Jessica by Mike, and taking Ben's beautiful car out on my own (just to the shops and back, honest!) and for a main dealer to state, without having driven it, been in it, or have ANY understanding of it, that driveablility is reduced... Well that's bordering on scandalous!The kit has been developed with tens of thosands of miles of testing on the road, in cars across Europe and round and round Millbrook. Drivability is massively improved with the addition of so much torque (and power throughout the rev range - the curve is above the original power output all the way rather than just a top-end boost). The kit is tested so well that NO error states are thrown up in the management system, there is no driveline shunt, it just works seamlessly and smoothly, completely integrated. All it is really is a set of manifolds and catalysts made without compromise to cost or non-relevant emissions regulations which factory cars are hampered by. A BR modified system does not have to compromise on either of those two things, BUT being ex-factory engineers they also know how to integrate the systems into the cars ECU so as to run properly - you can't just bolt bigger bore manifolds on and hope for the best; that won't work!!
On the quesion of cabin resonance - if the original backbox is retained, which it would be, it will as good as what you have now, AM have the harmonics right. There will be an increase in noise of coure due to better flow and more power, but the resonance won't change. You'll also have the valves switch fitted in all liklihood so you can choose to stay quiet... or not
Clutch wise - the extra power is easily within the specs of what the OEM clutch can handle, no reason it should use your clutch up faster. Clutches in ASM(I) cars are worn by hill starts, reversing, auto mode, stop-start traffic, failing to perfrom 'clutch learns' and so on - not actual driving! If you were doubling the power/torque, sure it might not have enough surface area to grip against the torque but for a 40bhp increase or so, no difference. For reference, I took my Marcos up from a 3.5 205bhp V8 to a 4.6 360bhp V8, same clutch for the last 10 years! You can burn out a clutch in a day if you're a lousy driver, but ASM II should elimiate most of that
Hope that helps Rob!
Come now Molly, as we've discussed before, Rob is thinking of YOUR safety!
That extra power might be needed to get you out of trouble... with Land Rovers and suchlike. I think it's the most loving thing a husband can do, increase the power of their car. I hope you make him a lovely dinner tonight to say thank you!
/guess who's not married...
That extra power might be needed to get you out of trouble... with Land Rovers and suchlike. I think it's the most loving thing a husband can do, increase the power of their car. I hope you make him a lovely dinner tonight to say thank you!
/guess who's not married...
Ice27 said:
I'm curious.
Why do you feel the need for more power on a new S?
Or is it simply because it's available?
+1Why do you feel the need for more power on a new S?
Or is it simply because it's available?
Rob you need to get yourself a nice glass of Pinot Noir and a stool - nowt else unless you smoke - and pop into your garden on a quiet afternoon in the sun.
Sit under your favourite tree and just learn how 'to be'. It's a seldom practised art these days but you will find you are at your most productive shortly thereafter
Rob.... I think what you are after is just a little more rumble...
Like me, even though mine is just the 4.3, I will never be talented enough to push the car to its limits...
But OH my days... The Quick silver super sport back box will give all the vocals you will ever need....
I will at some point be knocking on BR's doors for some exhaust mods, not for the power but pureley for the extra exhaust notes....
Like me, even though mine is just the 4.3, I will never be talented enough to push the car to its limits...
But OH my days... The Quick silver super sport back box will give all the vocals you will ever need....
I will at some point be knocking on BR's doors for some exhaust mods, not for the power but pureley for the extra exhaust notes....
My 4.7 V8V has had the BR manifolds and cats fitted. Check out my thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I've think the improvement in noise and performance has been well worth it. As others have said it's really towards the top of the rev range that the extra power becomes more noticeable. My car is not an S and is also manual. I did have the QS supersports exhaust on which was way too loud with the new manifold and cats and did have more resonance in the cabin. So I switched back to the OEM back box which is just right. Plus with a fitted switch for the bypass valves the noise can be toned down (when I get round to fixing the stuck valves - currently default open ) I don't know if the sports exhaust on the S might be louder so you may need to consider changing that as well as the manifold and cats. It seems counter intuitive to want to take the sports back box off but it worked for me. Mike at BR was spot on when he said that was what he thought I'd end up doing. He also reassured me that the mechanics were up to the job of dealing with the extra power. If you want to unleash the true potential in your car and make it sing out loud when you do, I can recommend it 
I've think the improvement in noise and performance has been well worth it. As others have said it's really towards the top of the rev range that the extra power becomes more noticeable. My car is not an S and is also manual. I did have the QS supersports exhaust on which was way too loud with the new manifold and cats and did have more resonance in the cabin. So I switched back to the OEM back box which is just right. Plus with a fitted switch for the bypass valves the noise can be toned down (when I get round to fixing the stuck valves - currently default open
) I don't know if the sports exhaust on the S might be louder so you may need to consider changing that as well as the manifold and cats. It seems counter intuitive to want to take the sports back box off but it worked for me. Mike at BR was spot on when he said that was what he thought I'd end up doing. He also reassured me that the mechanics were up to the job of dealing with the extra power. If you want to unleash the true potential in your car and make it sing out loud when you do, I can recommend it robgt said:
Burntout you have sussed me! Lime 1, I have now read your thread, I guess it has to be done! Yeti I agree with you, the extra 40 poies could prove to be a lifesaver! I had no idea that there would be a massive reduction in fuel consumption as well. Molly will be delighted!
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