Track day/semi slick tyres, too much grip for fun?
Discussion
Hello all,
Soon I hope to be a proud owner of a MK3 MR2, recently however I have been looking at tyres for the rather small 15inch wheels.
One thing that has cought my eye is the various cup/semi slick/ track day tyres available for my size, such as the Toyo R888, the same ones that were on the R26.R. These being a PHer caught my eye...
However one of reasons for choosing the MR2 was its engine layout and RWD (my car history has all been FWD) and I was rather looking forward to feeling the car 'move around'. From the reviews of the tyre I have read people seem really rather impressed with the amounts of grip compaired to a normal road tyre.
So would I suffer from too much grip and loose the fun of a well balanced RWD car with a semi slick? Sadly none of my freinds have used semi slicks, so I thought I would ask the more well versed PHers on trackday tyres.
Many thanks in advance!
Soon I hope to be a proud owner of a MK3 MR2, recently however I have been looking at tyres for the rather small 15inch wheels.
One thing that has cought my eye is the various cup/semi slick/ track day tyres available for my size, such as the Toyo R888, the same ones that were on the R26.R. These being a PHer caught my eye...
However one of reasons for choosing the MR2 was its engine layout and RWD (my car history has all been FWD) and I was rather looking forward to feeling the car 'move around'. From the reviews of the tyre I have read people seem really rather impressed with the amounts of grip compaired to a normal road tyre.
So would I suffer from too much grip and loose the fun of a well balanced RWD car with a semi slick? Sadly none of my freinds have used semi slicks, so I thought I would ask the more well versed PHers on trackday tyres.
Many thanks in advance!
I use 888s on my track biased 944 and they're pretty lively when they're cold or dirty (they're so sticky they pick up a lot more than most tyres). I love them as long as it's dry, the grip when they're warm is ludicrous fun and when they break away they're very progressive on my setup.
Please do remember the wear rates are high, I probably only get 4-5k out of them (less than half of what T1-Rs would manage, for example) so they're not cheap if you're doing lots of miles. If you have to drive the car on the motorway you'll feel you're wasting lots of money/fun and the noise they make is pretty intrusive (you might start to wonder if a wheel bearing is on its way out). I don't have an LSD yet so even just spinning up a tyre on corner exit feels rather wasteful...
I would avoid them like the plague in the wet on the road, again the temp issue rears its head and it can be very difficult to keep the car pointing in the right direction even without standing water. On the track in the wet they're surprisingly good once you get some heat into them.
Please do remember the wear rates are high, I probably only get 4-5k out of them (less than half of what T1-Rs would manage, for example) so they're not cheap if you're doing lots of miles. If you have to drive the car on the motorway you'll feel you're wasting lots of money/fun and the noise they make is pretty intrusive (you might start to wonder if a wheel bearing is on its way out). I don't have an LSD yet so even just spinning up a tyre on corner exit feels rather wasteful...
I would avoid them like the plague in the wet on the road, again the temp issue rears its head and it can be very difficult to keep the car pointing in the right direction even without standing water. On the track in the wet they're surprisingly good once you get some heat into them.
Are these for everyday use, or just for trackdays? If for everyday use then I'd personally advise against, because as others have said they are expensive, and not great in the wet or cold. If you're getting a road legal track tyre for track use then you'll probably want to put them on a 2nd set of wheels, that way you can switch to them for the drive to the track, and swap back to normal tyres after the event.
They're a lot of fun on a trackday where you can properly push proper fast. (I like going fast on trackdays, other people may like going sideways...) But I wouldn't want them as a daily.
They're a lot of fun on a trackday where you can properly push proper fast. (I like going fast on trackdays, other people may like going sideways...) But I wouldn't want them as a daily.
I have Yokohama AD08s on my Mk2 MR2 and they make the car fantastic to drive. Great feedback, with predictable and consistent slip at the limit.
Very confidence inspiring and in no way do they remove the fun of the car. Brilliant in the wet too.
If you intend to do mainly road driving with a bit of track thrown in, these are a good bet.
Herman Toothrot recently fitted a set to his Mk3, drop him a line to ask about them
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=0...
Very confidence inspiring and in no way do they remove the fun of the car. Brilliant in the wet too.
If you intend to do mainly road driving with a bit of track thrown in, these are a good bet.
Herman Toothrot recently fitted a set to his Mk3, drop him a line to ask about them
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=0...
Edited by Marf on Saturday 21st July 19:48
Assuming you can still get them, then what you want on the mk3 is a set of the Advan Neovas in S1 Elise spec. Should be available from any Lotus dealer in LTS-trim, by far the best tyres you can put on that car. As grippy as you'd want, and they're so communicative that it's like having the tyres sitting in the seat next to you telling you what's going on.
I was planning to use them for the road, although not for motorway driving/commuting ect, the car will mainly be for PH style driving.
The main reason I ask is that I seem to be lacking on the options for decent tyres, seem to either have high grip semi slick types, or something abit mid range.
So thought Id look into the semi slick options as I wouldnt be doing long trip (well they might be long but not sat a 80 for 2hours on the m5 long).
Yokohama Advan Neova AD08- also noticed these were in my size and seemed a little less focussed.
The main reason I ask is that I seem to be lacking on the options for decent tyres, seem to either have high grip semi slick types, or something abit mid range.
So thought Id look into the semi slick options as I wouldnt be doing long trip (well they might be long but not sat a 80 for 2hours on the m5 long).
Yokohama Advan Neova AD08- also noticed these were in my size and seemed a little less focussed.
FreeLitres said:
I've never driven on trackday tyres, but the new Toyo R1-Rs look like a half way house between 888s and the T1-R fast road tyre.
Worth noting that Toyo advise that you do not use or store the R1R in sub zero temps. The Yokohama Advan Neova AD07/AD08 are rated to -10C. This is one of the things that made the decision for me when I was choosing between the two. Marf said:
I have Yokohama AD08s on my Mk2 MR2 and they make the car fantastic to drive. Great feedback, with predictable and consistent slip at the limit.
Very confidence inspiring and in no way do they remove the fun of the car. Brilliant in the wet too.
If you intend to do mainly road driving with a bit of track thrown in, these are a good bet.
Herman Toothrot recently fitted a set to his Mk3, drop him a line to ask about them
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=0...
Sweet, thanks for info!Very confidence inspiring and in no way do they remove the fun of the car. Brilliant in the wet too.
If you intend to do mainly road driving with a bit of track thrown in, these are a good bet.
Herman Toothrot recently fitted a set to his Mk3, drop him a line to ask about them
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=0...
Edited by Marf on Saturday 21st July 19:48
Can't give you advice specific to the MR2, but I have an MX-5 (so similar power) on Federal RS-Rs, which are supposedly comparable to tyres such as R888s, etc.
In the dry, on the road, there is a hell of a lot of grip. I can be very brutal and still not really trouble the grip... On the other hand, in the wet there's enough grip to still go along at a quick pace but even with 125bhp it'll happily slide about under power.
As others have said, personal preference really.
In the dry, on the road, there is a hell of a lot of grip. I can be very brutal and still not really trouble the grip... On the other hand, in the wet there's enough grip to still go along at a quick pace but even with 125bhp it'll happily slide about under power.
As others have said, personal preference really.
FreeLitres said:
I've never driven on trackday tyres, but the new Toyo R1-Rs look like a half way house between 888s and the T1-R fast road tyre.
Yes, I've used the R1Rs on a car for general road use - much less noisy than 888s as noted above but less grip too. Seem quite progressive when the grip starts to go as well[quote=Fantuzzi]I was planning to use them for the road, although not for motorway driving/commuting ect, the car will mainly be for PH style driving.
quote]
I've used Toyo 888 and Yoko A048's on road cars (April - Oct) they are great but be aware they will not cope with standing water (ie puddles) so you can only use the car in situations where you know you will not find yourself driving along in the middle of a heavy storm . Eg - I've raced MR2's on Toyo 888's in the rain and a normal puddle on full throttle could easily have you off the road (ie you are just a passenger in your own accident once it aquaplanes).
These tyres will bring your MR2 roadster to life, especially steering feel, but are not suitable for daily driver road use.
quote]
I've used Toyo 888 and Yoko A048's on road cars (April - Oct) they are great but be aware they will not cope with standing water (ie puddles) so you can only use the car in situations where you know you will not find yourself driving along in the middle of a heavy storm . Eg - I've raced MR2's on Toyo 888's in the rain and a normal puddle on full throttle could easily have you off the road (ie you are just a passenger in your own accident once it aquaplanes).
These tyres will bring your MR2 roadster to life, especially steering feel, but are not suitable for daily driver road use.
rallycross]antuzzi said:
I was planning to use them for the road, although not for motorway driving/commuting ect, the car will mainly be for PH style driving.
quote]
I've used Toyo 888 and Yoko A048's on road cars (April - Oct) they are great but be aware they will not cope with standing water (ie puddles) so you can only use the car in situations where you know you will not find yourself driving along in the middle of a heavy storm . Eg - I've raced MR2's on Toyo 888's in the rain and a normal puddle on full throttle could easily have you off the road (ie you are just a passenger in your own accident once it aquaplanes).
These tyres will bring your MR2 roadster to life, especially steering feel, but are not suitable for daily driver road use.
Thanks, yeah I was a little worried about that, Ive heard various things about their wet capabilities, but I most definately wont be driving with them on when its rainy afternoon.quote]
I've used Toyo 888 and Yoko A048's on road cars (April - Oct) they are great but be aware they will not cope with standing water (ie puddles) so you can only use the car in situations where you know you will not find yourself driving along in the middle of a heavy storm . Eg - I've raced MR2's on Toyo 888's in the rain and a normal puddle on full throttle could easily have you off the road (ie you are just a passenger in your own accident once it aquaplanes).
These tyres will bring your MR2 roadster to life, especially steering feel, but are not suitable for daily driver road use.
tim2100 said:
Won't the problem with 888's etc be that they need to warm up to provide any decent grip?
In the Westfield my tyres don't warm up properly on the road, on track I need to push very hard to get enough heat in to give me more grip.
A westfield is markedly lighter than a Mk3 MR2.In the Westfield my tyres don't warm up properly on the road, on track I need to push very hard to get enough heat in to give me more grip.
I used A048R and A032R daily for 3 years in various compounds on my 800KG Charade turbo and it had no problem getting heat into the tyres.
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