Subsidized private rental - kitchen safety issues
Discussion
Not sure if this is the best place for this, but based on what I've seen there will surely be some qualified people here that can offer an opinion. So here goes...
A friend of my wife's (and her 8yr old daughter) has been living with us for a few months now. Through a combination of bad luck and some truly awful personal judgement, they had ended up in a battered women's hostel a few miles away, and it was a dire place. So we offered them our spare room to use until they got back on their feet. Now, that whole affair hasn't been without it's tribulations, but that's not what this post is about.
She recently found a small flat around the corner. I don't understand all the mechanics of it, but it's a private rental that her housing benefit pays for. There are 6 units in the building, and the landlord apparently owns several other properties as well (up to 18 I believe). The issue is that I do not believe these units are being let in a condition that is safe, never mind habitable. Some picture might help illustrate the matter.
This is the view into the kitchen from the lounge area. The tenant has pulled out the carpet throughout the flat, as it stank of piss. The rest is how she received the property.
The stove (not supplied) is supposed to go into that gap. I'm very surprised to see the kitchen cabinets directly over this space. Is that allowed?
About half of the sockets are hanging out like this. Apparently the 'tiler' that the landlord hired didn't feel the need to replace them. Now the landlord doesn't either.
Now, my opinion is that this landlord (who has the cheek to turn up in a newish FFRR, but claims she has cashflow problems that prevent her spending a couple of hundred £ rehabbing a place for a new tenant) is playing on the vulnerabilities of her target market, knowing that many of them are one step from homelessness or just out of it. She collect the rents from the council quite happily (£62/week for this one), and then tells the tenants it's up to them to fix it up, and they can leave if they don't like it.
On the advice of some local folks who know about these things, we told our friend that the first thing to do was try and engage the landlord in a civilized discussion about the issues. She tried that today, and was told exactly the above. Our friend has been working very hard at painting the place (on her dime) and trying to make it a nice place for her daughter to live, and is now terrified that she'll lose it all. There is a lease contract of sorts in place, but I haven't seen it, and don't know what's in it.
So I offer it up to the PH crowd.
First of all, discounting the size, does that kitchen look remotely safe or capable of operating safely in it's current condition and layout?
Second, what should the next steps be to try and rectify the situation? I'm about to embark on a major building project of my own, and don't really need to be getting embroiled with this, but the s
ttiness of the situation just makes me unable to walk away.
Cheers,
Matt
A friend of my wife's (and her 8yr old daughter) has been living with us for a few months now. Through a combination of bad luck and some truly awful personal judgement, they had ended up in a battered women's hostel a few miles away, and it was a dire place. So we offered them our spare room to use until they got back on their feet. Now, that whole affair hasn't been without it's tribulations, but that's not what this post is about.
She recently found a small flat around the corner. I don't understand all the mechanics of it, but it's a private rental that her housing benefit pays for. There are 6 units in the building, and the landlord apparently owns several other properties as well (up to 18 I believe). The issue is that I do not believe these units are being let in a condition that is safe, never mind habitable. Some picture might help illustrate the matter.
This is the view into the kitchen from the lounge area. The tenant has pulled out the carpet throughout the flat, as it stank of piss. The rest is how she received the property.
The stove (not supplied) is supposed to go into that gap. I'm very surprised to see the kitchen cabinets directly over this space. Is that allowed?
About half of the sockets are hanging out like this. Apparently the 'tiler' that the landlord hired didn't feel the need to replace them. Now the landlord doesn't either.
Now, my opinion is that this landlord (who has the cheek to turn up in a newish FFRR, but claims she has cashflow problems that prevent her spending a couple of hundred £ rehabbing a place for a new tenant) is playing on the vulnerabilities of her target market, knowing that many of them are one step from homelessness or just out of it. She collect the rents from the council quite happily (£62/week for this one), and then tells the tenants it's up to them to fix it up, and they can leave if they don't like it.
On the advice of some local folks who know about these things, we told our friend that the first thing to do was try and engage the landlord in a civilized discussion about the issues. She tried that today, and was told exactly the above. Our friend has been working very hard at painting the place (on her dime) and trying to make it a nice place for her daughter to live, and is now terrified that she'll lose it all. There is a lease contract of sorts in place, but I haven't seen it, and don't know what's in it.
So I offer it up to the PH crowd.
First of all, discounting the size, does that kitchen look remotely safe or capable of operating safely in it's current condition and layout?
Second, what should the next steps be to try and rectify the situation? I'm about to embark on a major building project of my own, and don't really need to be getting embroiled with this, but the s
ttiness of the situation just makes me unable to walk away. Cheers,
Matt
Speak to the Local Authority housing officer if she is not playing the game, they have ways of persuading the landlord to try harder. Those sockets need securing and personally I think they are a little close to the sink for my liking although I don't think there is a set distance other than in new installations.
I don't think the cupboard over the oven space is an issue, although it's obviously less than ideal.
I don't think the cupboard over the oven space is an issue, although it's obviously less than ideal.
surveyor said:
Speak to the Local Authority housing officer if she is not playing the game, they have ways of persuading the landlord to try harder. Those sockets need securing and personally I think they are a little close to the sink for my liking although I don't think there is a set distance other than in new installations.
I don't think the cupboard over the oven space is an issue, although it's obviously less than ideal.
In my part of the woods, Bristol, the local council's housing officer inspects the property prior to any social housing tenants taking up the tenancy. Health, safety and fire prevention are top of their inspection list, with the electrics having to be past by a qualified electrician, with an inspection certificate having to be issued.I don't think the cupboard over the oven space is an issue, although it's obviously less than ideal.
A mains fire alarm would be part of the above inspection, together with a smoke alarm and carbon monoxide detectors near every gas appliance, the latter also requiring an annual gas safety certificate.
The OP's friend would be best to raise the above with the local housing officer.
Wings said:
surveyor said:
Speak to the Local Authority housing officer if she is not playing the game, they have ways of persuading the landlord to try harder. Those sockets need securing and personally I think they are a little close to the sink for my liking although I don't think there is a set distance other than in new installations.
I don't think the cupboard over the oven space is an issue, although it's obviously less than ideal.
In my part of the woods, Bristol, the local council's housing officer inspects the property prior to any social housing tenants taking up the tenancy. Health, safety and fire prevention are top of their inspection list, with the electrics having to be passed by a qualified electrician, with an inspection certificate having to be issued.I don't think the cupboard over the oven space is an issue, although it's obviously less than ideal.
A mains fire alarm would be part of the above inspection, together with a smoke alarm and carbon monoxide detectors near every gas appliance, the latter also requiring an annual gas safety certificate.
The OP's friend would be best to raise the above with the local housing officer.
The cooker will need to be a slotin electric one - hob flush with the worktop - none of those high level grill type things. And I suspect a qualified electrician will need to fit it.
That flat has not been inspected - certainly not recently anyway.
What a lovely situation.
Housing Authority said she needs to attempt a civil conversation about fixing things with the landlord first. That just degenerated into a full-on verbal abuse session from the landlord that left the tenant in tears. She's now back in our kitchen, writing out a full time line of events since she agreed to let the place in early August, with monies spent and conversations she's had. We'll see what the HA want to do next.
I've already told her that this obviously isn't going to be a happy relationship and to start looking for somewhere else. Of course, she feels trapped because her mother (late 60's with health issues) has already moved into the flat next door, and the kid is enrolled at the primary school and beginning to calm down a bit for the first time in 18 months.
Next time I'm telling the wife to go find a trio of abandoned puppies instead....
Housing Authority said she needs to attempt a civil conversation about fixing things with the landlord first. That just degenerated into a full-on verbal abuse session from the landlord that left the tenant in tears. She's now back in our kitchen, writing out a full time line of events since she agreed to let the place in early August, with monies spent and conversations she's had. We'll see what the HA want to do next.
I've already told her that this obviously isn't going to be a happy relationship and to start looking for somewhere else. Of course, she feels trapped because her mother (late 60's with health issues) has already moved into the flat next door, and the kid is enrolled at the primary school and beginning to calm down a bit for the first time in 18 months.
Next time I'm telling the wife to go find a trio of abandoned puppies instead....
Wings said:
Contacting the local council's environmental health office should produce a response.
Except the problem there is that if the landlord doesn't agree to make the repairs by a given timescale, the council will undertake the work themselves and send the landlord the bill.Hardly conducive to good tenant/landlord relations.
However if the landlord is being difficult over such easily-remedied fixes at this early stage in the process, I can see only misery ahead should anything else go wrong.
As you rightly say, she's capitalising on the vulnerable and the desperate. The Housing Association sound like a shower of shiite too - let me guess, it's some sort of 'shell' which the landlord has a commercial interest in.
Well, a very small bit of googling reveals that the landlord was a Conservative councillor from 2007 to 2011, and guess which committees she sat on?
Housing & Community Safety Select Committee
Housing Member Reference Group
Home Safety Association
I suspect she knows exactly where the line is, and how close she can get to it.
Housing & Community Safety Select Committee
Housing Member Reference Group
Home Safety Association
I suspect she knows exactly where the line is, and how close she can get to it.
Just get her in the flat and screw the plug sockets back to the walls - go to B&Q for some screws!
As for the oven under the cupboard - it looks to me that someone has changed the worktops.
The electric connection is under the worktop to the left of the gap.
It's not a major job to change over, but it will take a few hours work and a new length of worktop.
As for the oven under the cupboard - it looks to me that someone has changed the worktops.
The electric connection is under the worktop to the left of the gap.
It's not a major job to change over, but it will take a few hours work and a new length of worktop.
And that's the sticking point...
The landlord had that new kitchen put in. It wasn't done right, and she doesn't care to fix it.
We're talking about £250 max here. Maybe another £250 if she was generous and put carpet in. Less than 6 weeks rent. For a tenant (x 2, since Mum's next door), that will look after the place and probably stay for a long time.
The mentality of some folks boggles the mind.
The landlord had that new kitchen put in. It wasn't done right, and she doesn't care to fix it.
We're talking about £250 max here. Maybe another £250 if she was generous and put carpet in. Less than 6 weeks rent. For a tenant (x 2, since Mum's next door), that will look after the place and probably stay for a long time.
The mentality of some folks boggles the mind.
Rosscow said:
Just get her in the flat and screw the plug sockets back to the walls - go to B&Q for some screws!
As for the oven under the cupboard - it looks to me that someone has changed the worktops.
The electric connection is under the worktop to the left of the gap.
It's not a major job to change over, but it will take a few hours work and a new length of worktop.
I'm not sure I agree with that. There are sockets on the wall where the cooker is going to go & that isn't ideal to be honest & if the cooker is moved, it's going to be next to the sink. The tenant also runs the risk of changing the kitchen & then the LL issuing a Section 21 to get her out & keeping the kitchen.As for the oven under the cupboard - it looks to me that someone has changed the worktops.
The electric connection is under the worktop to the left of the gap.
It's not a major job to change over, but it will take a few hours work and a new length of worktop.
I let out to DSS & wouldn't get away with that. The council we work with do inspections & are very thorough - we had an internal glazed door without safety glass (no markings) & they pulled me up on it. They would freak if sockets weren't secured to the wall!
Agreed. That's why I'm getting involved in the first place. My brother and I run a couple of students lets in a nearby town. We try and provide better than usual accommodation, and are very quick to fix things that break. I also have a house in the US that I run the same way.
As a result, we're able to charge and get higher rents. Landlords that try and scrape the bottom of the barrel like this really make my blood boil.
As a result, we're able to charge and get higher rents. Landlords that try and scrape the bottom of the barrel like this really make my blood boil.
Minemapper said:
Agreed. That's why I'm getting involved in the first place. My brother and I run a couple of students lets in a nearby town. We try and provide better than usual accommodation, and are very quick to fix things that break. I also have a house in the US that I run the same way.
As a result, we're able to charge and get higher rents. Landlords that try and scrape the bottom of the barrel like this really make my blood boil.
^^^Agree, not for tenant or LL to do, but a qualified electrician. It could well be that the clasps on the back boxes are broken, so boxes need replacing. As a result, we're able to charge and get higher rents. Landlords that try and scrape the bottom of the barrel like this really make my blood boil.
The cupboard above cooker should be moved, together with the nearby electric sockets, both serious fire hazards.
Agree also that raising the issue/s does not lead to good tenant-LL relations, but gaps around sockets need addressing.
Edited by Wings on Thursday 20th September 21:11
Edited by Wings on Thursday 20th September 21:11
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