Discussion
This would be off topic if it didn't occur while transitioning from my V8V to my current DB9V...
0.I get a bog standard producer while in V8V.
1. Sell V8V to friendly PH'r.
2. Produce at police station - reg plate on insurance certificate doesn't match reg on car as I'd recently put a private plate on (wasn't planning on selling - it was just opportune that someone came along). Everything else is OK.
3. While producing, I'm told that insurance is not acceptable, police suggest I get a letter of indemnity from insurers. Something I'd already tried but insurance co. refuse to do it as it is against their policy to do so for customers that have cancelled their policy.
4. Summonsed to court for a hearing(!!!)
5. Write to DVLA for proof that the old plate and new plate belonged to same car+chassis number - get that after a few weeks of waiting around
6. Show up at hearing. Insurance still not acceptable despite letter from DVLA saying both plates are actually the same car. Now it's worse, I've only got copies of the MOT (as I had to give the MOT cert to the buyer of my car) and they don't accept that either (despite showing all the printouts from the direct.gov website that the car was in fact MOT'd and trying to explain that this is public domain info that even they can access).
7. Magistrates gives me another chance. Tell me to go away and seek legal advice e.g. summons insurer and/or get the MOT certificate and letter of indemnity for insurance. I've got a solicitor involved but he's suggested trying to produce again before really engaging him.
8. I ring insurers until blue in the face, they refuse to give me a letter of indemnity or any evidence whatsoever that I was insured with them at the time and that I'd told them about the plate change. Now they just ignore me. Their manager hates me and they refuse to let me speak to anybody higher up.
9. Attempt to get MOT certs again, but garages just tell me its not possible (tried a few) as they can only print the current cert (no use to me, different number plate, year etc.).
10. Went to police station today to attempt to produce again (to get HORT2). While they accept I might have had MOT at the time, because I can't produce a cert they have to send me back to court and mark me down as not having an MOT cert (Insurance may be acceptable pending a call to insurers by them tomorrow). For some reason, they can't also call VOSA to check my MOT status(??!!!).
AARGGHHH!!! Why do I live in a f
ked up world!!! Perhaps I should post this into the police forum. Nightmare. You do what's right and because of a little slip up (admittedly I did slip up) you end up being made to feel like some kind of ruthless, cut throat criminal!!!
Anybody have any bright ideas?
0.I get a bog standard producer while in V8V.
1. Sell V8V to friendly PH'r.
2. Produce at police station - reg plate on insurance certificate doesn't match reg on car as I'd recently put a private plate on (wasn't planning on selling - it was just opportune that someone came along). Everything else is OK.
3. While producing, I'm told that insurance is not acceptable, police suggest I get a letter of indemnity from insurers. Something I'd already tried but insurance co. refuse to do it as it is against their policy to do so for customers that have cancelled their policy.
4. Summonsed to court for a hearing(!!!)
5. Write to DVLA for proof that the old plate and new plate belonged to same car+chassis number - get that after a few weeks of waiting around
6. Show up at hearing. Insurance still not acceptable despite letter from DVLA saying both plates are actually the same car. Now it's worse, I've only got copies of the MOT (as I had to give the MOT cert to the buyer of my car) and they don't accept that either (despite showing all the printouts from the direct.gov website that the car was in fact MOT'd and trying to explain that this is public domain info that even they can access).
7. Magistrates gives me another chance. Tell me to go away and seek legal advice e.g. summons insurer and/or get the MOT certificate and letter of indemnity for insurance. I've got a solicitor involved but he's suggested trying to produce again before really engaging him.
8. I ring insurers until blue in the face, they refuse to give me a letter of indemnity or any evidence whatsoever that I was insured with them at the time and that I'd told them about the plate change. Now they just ignore me. Their manager hates me and they refuse to let me speak to anybody higher up.
9. Attempt to get MOT certs again, but garages just tell me its not possible (tried a few) as they can only print the current cert (no use to me, different number plate, year etc.).
10. Went to police station today to attempt to produce again (to get HORT2). While they accept I might have had MOT at the time, because I can't produce a cert they have to send me back to court and mark me down as not having an MOT cert (Insurance may be acceptable pending a call to insurers by them tomorrow). For some reason, they can't also call VOSA to check my MOT status(??!!!).
AARGGHHH!!! Why do I live in a f
ked up world!!! Perhaps I should post this into the police forum. Nightmare. You do what's right and because of a little slip up (admittedly I did slip up) you end up being made to feel like some kind of ruthless, cut throat criminal!!!Anybody have any bright ideas?
It's a case of "computer says no"....
I had a lucky escape on my jeep following a plate change.....basically my new plates hadn't arrived, so I was driving on my old set for 1 more day.... Got picked up my ANPR..... Luckily for me, cop rang insurance at side of the road, and they said I was covered as I'd let them know of the plate change in good time..... Even though I hadn't yet physically fitted the new plates....
Made me realise though, that these days you have to be on top of it....because with all the bloody cameras around, the chances of getting caught, are high
I had a lucky escape on my jeep following a plate change.....basically my new plates hadn't arrived, so I was driving on my old set for 1 more day.... Got picked up my ANPR..... Luckily for me, cop rang insurance at side of the road, and they said I was covered as I'd let them know of the plate change in good time..... Even though I hadn't yet physically fitted the new plates....
Made me realise though, that these days you have to be on top of it....because with all the bloody cameras around, the chances of getting caught, are high
Do as the magistrate suggested - seek legal advice. I imagine your insurers will take a different approach if contacted by a lawyer.
Objectively I can see why it looks fishy to the magistrate/cops. In the time you're allowed to produce you've not sorted out the legal documents for the car properly *and* sold it? You can't really blame the system on this one
Objectively I can see why it looks fishy to the magistrate/cops. In the time you're allowed to produce you've not sorted out the legal documents for the car properly *and* sold it? You can't really blame the system on this one
Can't you contact the new owner and ask them to produce the MOT? Also don't you have an insurance policy document for the car showing the correct plate?
I thought the latest MOT system allowed easy verification of the cars MOT status and that this should be acceptable to the Police. Isn't it the same database they use when they pull people over to inform them of no MOT on the car.
I thought the latest MOT system allowed easy verification of the cars MOT status and that this should be acceptable to the Police. Isn't it the same database they use when they pull people over to inform them of no MOT on the car.
SLacKer said:
Can't you contact the new owner and ask them to produce the MOT? Also don't you have an insurance policy document for the car showing the correct plate?
I thought the latest MOT system allowed easy verification of the cars MOT status and that this should be acceptable to the Police. Isn't it the same database they use when they pull people over to inform them of no MOT on the car.
New owner put his own plate on and handed in the mot cert I gave him. Yes, direct.gov will tell you about any car's mot status and the data is pulled from the VOSA database which feeds the PNC. However, they need to see a printed cert despite the fact they could as easily go online and see for themselves in 5 minutes that the car had an mot (I provided the website printout). Oddly, they'll phone the insurance company to verify insurance but they won't check the VOSA website or call VOSA to verify the mot. It's a good thing I'm already bald.I thought the latest MOT system allowed easy verification of the cars MOT status and that this should be acceptable to the Police. Isn't it the same database they use when they pull people over to inform them of no MOT on the car.
Murph7355 said:
Objectively I can see why it looks fishy to the magistrate/cops. In the time you're allowed to produce you've not sorted out the legal documents for the car properly *and* sold it? You can't really blame the system on this one
Yes, I do see your point and at the team I was keen to get the car sold so that I could get the db9v that I currently have, so certainly a bit of carelessness on my part. I've never really been involved with the law like this before and I'm starting to see what an inefficient, beuraucratically frustrating mess it can be. The resource everyone is expending over this (the courts as well as me) is disproportionately high given that this is nothing more than an admin error. It would be so much easier for everyone if a clerk at the court could do the checks on the phone and be done with it (charge me the admin fee or fine me as its ultimately my fault) rather than drag it out with multiple hearings, trips to police stations etc. I'm guessing the more violent criminals that were at court (some were clearly guilty as I overheard their conversations) got treated with kid gloves.Any MOT station will reprint a current certificate (for c.£10) once verified on VOSA, but of course the 'current' MOT certificate will show the current reg
However an HPI check will on a single sheet of paper (when printed out) show the registration history against a single VIN number. So if you do an HPI check against the current reg on the vehicle you sold, it will give model, date of registration, VIN no. etc and complete plate history for that vehicle with dates of changes
Surely you just need to show the two documents together, or is that too sensible for the courts ! The HPI check will prove that the current MOT cert, issued before the last plate change, applied to your last plate at the time of the producer being issued
You really do have my sympathy - one of the benefits of the court system is that a judge/magistrate doesn't have to just look at the letter of the law but can in some instances apply a modicum of common sense where clear intent is shown, perhaps not where the law is technically breached, but in examples like this where you clearly haven't breached the law (regarding driving without MOT or insurance) whether technically, intentionally or otherwise
However an HPI check will on a single sheet of paper (when printed out) show the registration history against a single VIN number. So if you do an HPI check against the current reg on the vehicle you sold, it will give model, date of registration, VIN no. etc and complete plate history for that vehicle with dates of changes
Surely you just need to show the two documents together, or is that too sensible for the courts ! The HPI check will prove that the current MOT cert, issued before the last plate change, applied to your last plate at the time of the producer being issued
You really do have my sympathy - one of the benefits of the court system is that a judge/magistrate doesn't have to just look at the letter of the law but can in some instances apply a modicum of common sense where clear intent is shown, perhaps not where the law is technically breached, but in examples like this where you clearly haven't breached the law (regarding driving without MOT or insurance) whether technically, intentionally or otherwise
jonby said:
Any MOT station will reprint a current certificate (for c.£10) once verified on VOSA, but of course the 'current' MOT certificate will show the current reg
However an HPI check will on a single sheet of paper (when printed out) show the registration history against a single VIN number. So if you do an HPI check against the current reg on the vehicle you sold, it will give model, date of registration, VIN no. etc and complete plate history for that vehicle with dates of changes
Surely you just need to show the two documents together, or is that too sensible for the courts ! The HPI check will prove that the current MOT cert, issued before the last plate change, applied to your last plate at the time of the producer being issued
You really do have my sympathy - one of the benefits of the court system is that a judge/magistrate doesn't have to just look at the letter of the law but can in some instances apply a modicum of common sense where clear intent is shown, perhaps not where the law is technically breached, but in examples like this where you clearly haven't breached the law (regarding driving without MOT or insurance) whether technically, intentionally or otherwise
Thanks jonby. Had a win today. Went back to the police station looking really upset and broken. They called the insurance company who confirmed that I was insured at the time. That appeared to be good enough for the police. Wrt MOT they've said that they can take a letter from the station that tested (in this case one in Handforth that is used by the AM dealership in Wilmslow) it that clearly says that they MOT'd it. They will send that to the 'central ticketing office' and 'hope for he best'. So that's the final stumbling block, but made definite progress. Common sense is slowly squeezing itself into the picture.However an HPI check will on a single sheet of paper (when printed out) show the registration history against a single VIN number. So if you do an HPI check against the current reg on the vehicle you sold, it will give model, date of registration, VIN no. etc and complete plate history for that vehicle with dates of changes
Surely you just need to show the two documents together, or is that too sensible for the courts ! The HPI check will prove that the current MOT cert, issued before the last plate change, applied to your last plate at the time of the producer being issued
You really do have my sympathy - one of the benefits of the court system is that a judge/magistrate doesn't have to just look at the letter of the law but can in some instances apply a modicum of common sense where clear intent is shown, perhaps not where the law is technically breached, but in examples like this where you clearly haven't breached the law (regarding driving without MOT or insurance) whether technically, intentionally or otherwise
The police don't HAVE to carry on like that but they get off on being arrogant bumptious aholes, particularly when it gets them a notch in their six shooter. Sign of how things are going in this country and in particuar the disconnect between people who think they have had a bum deal and society.
holes, particularly when it gets them a notch in their six shooter. Sign of how things are going in this country and in particuar the disconnect between people who think they have had a bum deal and society.Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff