Swimming pool running costs

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Discussion

DanX5

Original Poster:

436 posts

184 months

Tuesday 19th February 2013
quotequote all
I have looked at a house with a pool as follows, per agents details:

SUPERB OUTDOOR HEATED SWIMMING POOL: Approx 30' x 15' (Approx 9.14m x 4.57m) Set in a paved terrace. Depths ranging from 3' to 8'6". The pool is a quality liner pool heated by a separate gas boiler with a sand filter.

All looks good condition and well maintained, separate plant room attached to house.

Question is, what would be the ongoing costs assuming we only heated from April -September each year? I have no idea as a pool was not on our 'must have' list.

Anybody with a pool able to help?

roofer

5,136 posts

212 months

Tuesday 19th February 2013
quotequote all
My girl has one the same size, but its heated with a GSHP, about 2 k a year. Gas boiler is going to be painful.

B17NNS

18,506 posts

248 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
roofer said:
Gas boiler is going to be painful.
My accountant bought a lovely place with one.

He filled it in in the end due to lack of use and crippling costs.

surveyor

17,846 posts

185 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
B17NNS said:
My accountant bought a lovely place with one.

He filled it in in the end due to lack of use and crippling costs.
Our neighbour is doing the same.

We rent and our landlord answered that it costs less than going to a fancy hotel every weekend.

He's probably right - but joining the fancy hotel's gym would be considerably cheaper.

I reckon it was about £400 a month. Our pool then had some downtime while the ancient boiler was replaced. I hoped for better efficiency, but just after it had warmed up the other half got to the gas bill before me. Two to three weeks of full burning had taken it's toll and it got chopped.

I'm looking at it and thinking of giving it another go. I reckon it could go as low as £300 a month when settled down. This is indoor - so we don't suffer in winter, but we don't get the sun in the summer. I'm also looking for a cheap used Air source pump to add on to reduce the costs...

Sods law says it won't be at the right time.

In short - it ain't cheap at all.

PS - Did I mention the ball-ache they are - can only imagine an outdoor one to be worse.

ETA - I was just checking our gas bill. British Gas really struggle with our usage because of the pool. They are suggesting £400 this month (without pool), which I think is because the pool was heating up this time last year so used a truck load of gas, before the old boiler croaked.

jeff m2

2,060 posts

152 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
I'm in New Jersey, so a direct comparison is not possible, but we do need solar covers to prevent overnight heat loss.

The trick is to not keep paying to heat up the same water.

My Brother has an indoor pool (UK) his pool does not get the benefit of sun to assist in the heating and he is moaning like hell, although his wife does like the water sorta warm. On their last visit here she was bhing about our temp...it was 88F. FFS.

Solar heating is the way to go.
You still need a solar cover though.

ETA
bhing is not allowed but FFS is ok biggrin








Edited by jeff m2 on Wednesday 20th February 02:11

jdw1234

6,021 posts

216 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
I hope you don't mind - I googled your quote.

My concern would be the proportion of garden the pool is taking - from the photo = a lot.

Also, from looking at Google maps, its not really "in keeping" with the neighbours (that is not meant as a negative. It looks a lovely house and area).

I think it would really limit your market if/when you looked to sell in future. I would consider it a liability rather than an asset.


Hereward

4,193 posts

231 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
You're not obliged to heat it all the time, that would be ruinous.

I have an outdoor pool, slightly larger, heated with an 80kw gas boiler. It only gets used at weekends, depending upon the weather forecast. If the weather looks good I turn it on on Thursday night and by Saturday morning it's at 30 deg C. I then turn it off and the temperature stays pleasant all weekend. Probably only gets used 5-10 weekends a year, but the feel-good factor is immense. That said I'd never specify an outdoor pool!

It's not just the heating costs that need to be considered. In my case it was the new paving and new electric cover that hurt the wallet.

DanX5

Original Poster:

436 posts

184 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
jdw1234 said:
I hope you don't mind - I googled your quote.

My concern would be the proportion of garden the pool is taking - from the photo = a lot.

Also, from looking at Google maps, its not really "in keeping" with the neighbours (that is not meant as a negative. It looks a lovely house and area).

I think it would really limit your market if/when you looked to sell in future. I would consider it a liability rather than an asset.
No problems on google-ing. And yes, I am starting to think the same thing, i.e. it is a liability rather than an asset. Definitely not the type of thing you expect in a 1970's house on a residential estate albeit it looks like a good quality installation. A pool was not on our list of 'must haves' and a nice flat lawn would be cheaper! There is also a hot tub which is staying which I know cost a lot to keep in use.

It's quite a decieving plot actually as it goes on for another 20-30 feet past the timber outbuilding, albeit it is woodland rather than lawn.

I could live with £1,500-£2,000 per annum for ALL costs (heating, maintenance, etc) but this appears to be wishful thinking. We have a 12 year old and a 6 year old and they would love it.

We did like the property however so may go back with an offer bearing this all in mind to try and get at least enough off of what I would otherwise have been happy to pay, to cover a few years pool running costs!

Dr Interceptor

7,801 posts

197 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
I run a Swimming Pool service/supplies company based in Farnborough in Hampshire, and have my own 30' x 15' (3'6" to 6'6" deep) outdoor pool at home.

The question of how much to run is always the proverbial piece of string. It will vary wildly depending on the equipment fitted, quality of the pool construction, and what your expectation is with regards to temperature - some people run pools at 25-26 degrees, others want 28-29 degrees, some even higher!

The main running costs you're looking at will be electricity (running the filtration system), and heating costs which in your case is gas. The cost of the gas will vary depending on the type of boiler fitted - we still come across the old 1990s pool boilers (Laars Lites) which are woefully inefficient (probably 70-80%), versus the newer condensing boilers like the Certikin Genie which are 94% efficient.

To minimise heat loss at night, you will want to make sure the pool is covered. If it's not currently, or if the cover needs replacing, look at a Supercover (either 5mm or 8mm), these will retain much more heat than tradition 400 Micron or 500 Micron cover material - although the heat gain through them isn't as great, but lets face it, its rare we get temps above 25 degrees for any sustained period where you will want to maximise heat gain.

Heat Pumps are becoming more popular, but do need decent ambient temperatures to operate effectively. We sold two early last year - the Heatseeker models from Plastica, then we had one of the worst seasons known to man. One customer was understanding of the fact that due to it not getting much above 15 degrees in August, the heatpump struggled to keep the pool warm - another customer was less understanding! But that is the downside to Heatpumps, as soon as the temps drop, they struggle to keep up - extended season models are available though which help.

With regards to the electricity costs, there are some new products on the market this year which can help. The Future Wave Energy Saver has been on sale in Australia for a few years now, its new to the UK this year. Can be fitted to any existing single phase pump up to 3HP, and will allow you to control the speed of the pump - saving up to 70% in electricity costs. The unit isn't cheap though, but will pay itself back in 2 years (give or take).

There are other pumps which have speed controllers built in, the Intelliflo from Pentair is one, but you're looking at £1200-1300 for the pump alone, rather than the future wave which is £1000, should last forever, and will control any £3-400 pump.

If you are buying though - find out when the sand was last changed in the filter. This needs to be done every 5 years, 4 years preferably, and will be a £250 bill. Also check the age of the main parts (pump, filter, boiler), to see if there are any warranties left running - worthwhile knowing in case you have an issue. I'd also want to check the condition of the water, to see how well it has been looked after. If you're local to me, you're more than welcome to drop in a water sample, I'll test it for you on the spot - elements like cyanuric acid levels, phosphate levels, TDS, as well as the usual pH balance.

Best of luck - give us a shout if you need any advice.

Jon



2stis

507 posts

175 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
Cost will depend on how warm you keep it and for what period. Keeping it at 29 degrees for the whole of April to Sept would cost a fortune I would think. We have an outdoor pool about half that size and the wife was keen that we fill it in to avoid the hassle factor/costs. However, I've found that it isn't too bad to look after, with a day spent at the start of each year's 'season' to clean it out and get the water balance right and then maybe another hour or so vacuuming it out each week that we want to use it. Like Hereward I just keep an eye on the weather rather than heating it continuously, and if it sounds like it is going to be a warm weekend when we might want to use it I stick the heating on and it gets up to 30 degrees in about 24 hours (so I stick it on Friday morning if I want to use it at the weekend). The boiler seems to run flat out during that time, which I'm guessing burns £20 to £30 of oil. I know that over a year we get through a full tank of oil (2500 litres/£1500) but that includes heating the house and domestic water all year too, which I don't think is too bad. We then use it over the weekend, sticking the heat on intermittently, and then I usually turn the heat off on Sunday afternoon but we might continue using it for a few nights into the week as it cools down again. We don't tend to use it once it has dropped below 25 though, so that could take a couple of days or a week depending on the weather we get. We do have a cover to put on it at night to retain the heat. We probably only use it for about 6 weekends a year, so including the days afterwards that's less than 30 days of use, but the kids love it and for the expense and work on maintaining it I don't think that is too much to manage.

DanX5

Original Poster:

436 posts

184 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
Dr Interceptor said:
I run a Swimming Pool service/supplies company based in Farnborough in Hampshire, and have my own 30' x 15' (3'6" to 6'6" deep) outdoor pool at home.

The question of how much to run is always the proverbial piece of string. It will vary wildly depending on the equipment fitted, quality of the pool construction, and what your expectation is with regards to temperature - some people run pools at 25-26 degrees, others want 28-29 degrees, some even higher!

The main running costs you're looking at will be electricity (running the filtration system), and heating costs which in your case is gas. The cost of the gas will vary depending on the type of boiler fitted - we still come across the old 1990s pool boilers (Laars Lites) which are woefully inefficient (probably 70-80%), versus the newer condensing boilers like the Certikin Genie which are 94% efficient.

To minimise heat loss at night, you will want to make sure the pool is covered. If it's not currently, or if the cover needs replacing, look at a Supercover (either 5mm or 8mm), these will retain much more heat than tradition 400 Micron or 500 Micron cover material - although the heat gain through them isn't as great, but lets face it, its rare we get temps above 25 degrees for any sustained period where you will want to maximise heat gain.

Heat Pumps are becoming more popular, but do need decent ambient temperatures to operate effectively. We sold two early last year - the Heatseeker models from Plastica, then we had one of the worst seasons known to man. One customer was understanding of the fact that due to it not getting much above 15 degrees in August, the heatpump struggled to keep the pool warm - another customer was less understanding! But that is the downside to Heatpumps, as soon as the temps drop, they struggle to keep up - extended season models are available though which help.

With regards to the electricity costs, there are some new products on the market this year which can help. The Future Wave Energy Saver has been on sale in Australia for a few years now, its new to the UK this year. Can be fitted to any existing single phase pump up to 3HP, and will allow you to control the speed of the pump - saving up to 70% in electricity costs. The unit isn't cheap though, but will pay itself back in 2 years (give or take).

There are other pumps which have speed controllers built in, the Intelliflo from Pentair is one, but you're looking at £1200-1300 for the pump alone, rather than the future wave which is £1000, should last forever, and will control any £3-400 pump.

If you are buying though - find out when the sand was last changed in the filter. This needs to be done every 5 years, 4 years preferably, and will be a £250 bill. Also check the age of the main parts (pump, filter, boiler), to see if there are any warranties left running - worthwhile knowing in case you have an issue. I'd also want to check the condition of the water, to see how well it has been looked after. If you're local to me, you're more than welcome to drop in a water sample, I'll test it for you on the spot - elements like cyanuric acid levels, phosphate levels, TDS, as well as the usual pH balance.

Best of luck - give us a shout if you need any advice.

Jon
Thanks Jon, very helpful - we are in Dorset so not too far away so may well be in touch if we get the house

DanX5

Original Poster:

436 posts

184 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
2stis said:
Cost will depend on how warm you keep it and for what period. Keeping it at 29 degrees for the whole of April to Sept would cost a fortune I would think. We have an outdoor pool about half that size and the wife was keen that we fill it in to avoid the hassle factor/costs. However, I've found that it isn't too bad to look after, with a day spent at the start of each year's 'season' to clean it out and get the water balance right and then maybe another hour or so vacuuming it out each week that we want to use it. Like Hereward I just keep an eye on the weather rather than heating it continuously, and if it sounds like it is going to be a warm weekend when we might want to use it I stick the heating on and it gets up to 30 degrees in about 24 hours (so I stick it on Friday morning if I want to use it at the weekend). The boiler seems to run flat out during that time, which I'm guessing burns £20 to £30 of oil. I know that over a year we get through a full tank of oil (2500 litres/£1500) but that includes heating the house and domestic water all year too, which I don't think is too bad. We then use it over the weekend, sticking the heat on intermittently, and then I usually turn the heat off on Sunday afternoon but we might continue using it for a few nights into the week as it cools down again. We don't tend to use it once it has dropped below 25 though, so that could take a couple of days or a week depending on the weather we get. We do have a cover to put on it at night to retain the heat. We probably only use it for about 6 weekends a year, so including the days afterwards that's less than 30 days of use, but the kids love it and for the expense and work on maintaining it I don't think that is too much to manage.
Sounds sensible way to use it, if it only takes 24 hours then seems a good way to do it.

Here is a pic:



And this is a view from overhead:

http://binged.it/VvZZT0

PS - on a pistonheads note, there is an integral single and seperate double garage and space on the front for at least 10 cars

Dr Interceptor

7,801 posts

197 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
DanX5 said:
Dr Interceptor said:
I run a Swimming Pool service/supplies company based in Farnborough in Hampshire, and have my own 30' x 15' (3'6" to 6'6" deep) outdoor pool at home.

The question of how much to run is always the proverbial piece of string. It will vary wildly depending on the equipment fitted, quality of the pool construction, and what your expectation is with regards to temperature - some people run pools at 25-26 degrees, others want 28-29 degrees, some even higher!

The main running costs you're looking at will be electricity (running the filtration system), and heating costs which in your case is gas. The cost of the gas will vary depending on the type of boiler fitted - we still come across the old 1990s pool boilers (Laars Lites) which are woefully inefficient (probably 70-80%), versus the newer condensing boilers like the Certikin Genie which are 94% efficient.

To minimise heat loss at night, you will want to make sure the pool is covered. If it's not currently, or if the cover needs replacing, look at a Supercover (either 5mm or 8mm), these will retain much more heat than tradition 400 Micron or 500 Micron cover material - although the heat gain through them isn't as great, but lets face it, its rare we get temps above 25 degrees for any sustained period where you will want to maximise heat gain.

Heat Pumps are becoming more popular, but do need decent ambient temperatures to operate effectively. We sold two early last year - the Heatseeker models from Plastica, then we had one of the worst seasons known to man. One customer was understanding of the fact that due to it not getting much above 15 degrees in August, the heatpump struggled to keep the pool warm - another customer was less understanding! But that is the downside to Heatpumps, as soon as the temps drop, they struggle to keep up - extended season models are available though which help.

With regards to the electricity costs, there are some new products on the market this year which can help. The Future Wave Energy Saver has been on sale in Australia for a few years now, its new to the UK this year. Can be fitted to any existing single phase pump up to 3HP, and will allow you to control the speed of the pump - saving up to 70% in electricity costs. The unit isn't cheap though, but will pay itself back in 2 years (give or take).

There are other pumps which have speed controllers built in, the Intelliflo from Pentair is one, but you're looking at £1200-1300 for the pump alone, rather than the future wave which is £1000, should last forever, and will control any £3-400 pump.

If you are buying though - find out when the sand was last changed in the filter. This needs to be done every 5 years, 4 years preferably, and will be a £250 bill. Also check the age of the main parts (pump, filter, boiler), to see if there are any warranties left running - worthwhile knowing in case you have an issue. I'd also want to check the condition of the water, to see how well it has been looked after. If you're local to me, you're more than welcome to drop in a water sample, I'll test it for you on the spot - elements like cyanuric acid levels, phosphate levels, TDS, as well as the usual pH balance.

Best of luck - give us a shout if you need any advice.

Jon
Thanks Jon, very helpful - we are in Dorset so not too far away so may well be in touch if we get the house
No problem smile I googled the house as well and the pool looks in good condition - from the photo it looks like a liner pool with a Roman end/step unit. Make sure you find out when the liner was last replaced, or how old it is... the liner will last 10-14 years depending on how hot the water is kept, how well the water is looked after and UV exposure. The patterns do fade over time though, and some are changed at the 8-10 year mark as they start to look a bit naff!

If the liner needs doing, budget £2.5k for a decent 30 thou patterned liner fitted.

I have to say though, Swimming Pools are fantastic things to have in the garden. The BBQ pool parties you can throw in the summer will be immense!! biggrin





Wacky Racer

38,190 posts

248 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
Very nice house...smile

You may find falling leaves are a real pain in autumn blowing into the water if the pool is not fully covered.

I have a pool in my villa in Malta and this is definitely an issue.

Bohally

943 posts

148 months

Wednesday 20th February 2013
quotequote all
Wacky Racer said:
Very nice house...smile

You may find falling leaves are a real pain in autumn blowing into the water if the pool is not fully covered.

I have a pool in my villa in Malta and this is definitely an issue.
Worst I have a villa in Malta with a pool post ever wink

caziques

2,580 posts

169 months

Thursday 21st February 2013
quotequote all
Our 55,000 litre pool costs about a couple of hundred pounds a year to run (NZ), solar heating only. Costs are electricity for the circulating pump and some bags of salt each year. (The salt provides the chlorine via an electrical cell).

How much is spent on heating is up to the owner - a heat pump will use the least amount of energy, but may not be that much cheaper to run than gas in the UK.

Some sort of cover is essential for night.

Solar can work well, but you need say twice as much surface area as the pool to make a real contribution.


BBYeah

331 posts

184 months

Thursday 21st February 2013
quotequote all
What about keeping the pool unheated and wearing a wet-suit style swimsuit and hat? Not only will it save a lot of money but it will add comedy value to each swim too.

BoRED S2upid

19,716 posts

241 months

Thursday 21st February 2013
quotequote all
BBYeah said:
What about keeping the pool unheated and wearing a wet-suit style swimsuit and hat? Not only will it save a lot of money but it will add comedy value to each swim too.
A real man wouldn't wear the wet suit but just swim faster wink

DanX5

Original Poster:

436 posts

184 months

Thursday 21st February 2013
quotequote all
BBYeah said:
What about keeping the pool unheated and wearing a wet-suit style swimsuit and hat? Not only will it save a lot of money but it will add comedy value to each swim too.
Thats always an option I suppose!