No limit on Indian immigration

[Fantic SuperT]

From the Conservative Party website: "We are restoring order to our immigration system to bring annual net migration down to the tens of thousands – rather than the hundreds of thousands we saw under Labour – by the end of this Parliament."
http://www.conservatives.com/Policy/Where_we_stand...

18th Feb: David Cameron said there was “no limit” to the number of Indians who would be allowed to study at UK universities and stay on in graduate-level jobs after they qualified.

How can these two positions be reconciled?

[JensenA]

Because one statement concerns uncontrolled immigration, and the other is allowing University Graduates who have studied in the UK AND obtained a job, to stay here.

[Haggleburyfinius]

Student Visas and permanent residence/work visas are different things.

It's their unskilled dross we don't want or need. Unfortunately, that's most of what we seem to get.

In Birmingham, the number of foreign, esp. Chinese students is unbelievable. They can mostly be found living in the best apartments and spending their days in Louis Vuitton. We don't want to lose this money!

[greygoose]

Cameron is just saying different things to different audiences like all politicians do. He wants the money from Indian students studying here but if they turn out to be dodgy students who don't turn up at the universities and disappear to get jobs in takeaways then he hopes he'll be out of office by then and can avoid the blame.

[Fantic SuperT]

JensenA said:

Because one statement concerns uncontrolled immigration, and the other is allowing University Graduates who have studied in the UK AND obtained a job, to stay here.

According to Wikipedia: The demographics of India are inclusive of the second most populous country in the world, with over 1.21 billion people (2011 census), more than a sixth of the world's population. Already containing 17.5% of the world's population, India is projected to be the world's most populous country by 2025, surpassing China, its population reaching 1.6 billion by 2050. Its population growth rate is 1.41%, ranking 102nd in the world in 2010.
India has more than 50% of its population below the age of 25 and more than 65% below the age of 35.

If 50% of the youth (below 25) are able to get degrees (like the UK), then that restricts immigration to a potential 25% of 1.21 billion. In other words the UK won't take more than 302,500,000. Assuming only 17% chose to study in the UK that leaves 51,425,000 who could be looking for work after graduation and may accept lower wages that the current workforce (as happened in IT).

[Pothole]

Fantic SuperT said:

JensenA said:

Because one statement concerns uncontrolled immigration, and the other is allowing University Graduates who have studied in the UK AND obtained a job, to stay here.

According to Wikipedia: The demographics of India are inclusive of the second most populous country in the world, with over 1.21 billion people (2011 census), more than a sixth of the world's population. Already containing 17.5% of the world's population, India is projected to be the world's most populous country by 2025, surpassing China, its population reaching 1.6 billion by 2050. Its population growth rate is 1.41%, ranking 102nd in the world in 2010.
India has more than 50% of its population below the age of 25 and more than 65% below the age of 35.

If 50% of the youth (below 25) are able to get degrees (like the UK), then that restricts immigration to a potential 25% of 1.21 billion. In other words the UK won't take more than 302,500,000. Assuming only 17% chose to study in the UK that leaves 51,425,000 who could be looking for work after graduation and may accept lower wages that the current workforce (as happened in IT).

I may have missed something, but where are they going to find 51m university places? (or beds?)

[Fantic SuperT]

Pothole said:

may have missed something, but where are they going to find 51m university places? (or beds?)

Therefore the real limit is on the number of places non-bogus universities can potentially provide, local accommodation, and the number of jobs they can get afterwards.

[FiF]

Haggleburyfinius said:

In Birmingham, the number of foreign, esp. Chinese students is unbelievable. They can mostly be found living in the best apartments and spending their days in Louis Vuitton. We don't want to lose this money!

It's the same in Sheffield, and whilst the "HK" lot seem reasonably pleasant the mainland ones are just so unbelievably arrogant and ignorant it's untrue.

Plus the standard of their Engrish ranguage skirrs are such that you know they have no clue what is being said in lectures, have no clue what is being discussed in seminars, contribute nothing to the debate, and I'm pretty sure don't even write their own essays but pay post grads and others to do it for them.

Above based on observation, if considered racist, then face the truth and deal with it.

[Pickled Piper]

JensenA said:

Because one statement concerns uncontrolled immigration, and the other is allowing University Graduates who have studied in the UK AND obtained a job, to stay here.

This. Many were exploiting the ease with which you could get a visa based on a bogus University place. These requirements have been tightened. If you have the financial means, have a place at a legitimate University and a sufficient grasp of the English language you can now get in and can work here on graduating.

pp

[Fantic SuperT]

Pickled Piper said:

This. Many were exploiting the ease with which you could get a visa based on a bogus University place. These requirements have been tightened. If you have the financial means, have a place at a legitimate University and a sufficient grasp of the English language you can now get in and can work here on graduating.

pp

There are currently around 500,000 university places provided each year in the UK. Since there's nothing to prevent universities expanding to accept more fee-paying foreign students, and there are millions of Indian students, the next limit is the number of jobs they can get (at any legal rate of pay) upon graduation. That doesn't seem likely to result in overall 'net immigration in the tens of thousands' as stated on the Conservative party website.

[Pickled Piper]

Fantic SuperT said:

Pickled Piper said:

This. Many were exploiting the ease with which you could get a visa based on a bogus University place. These requirements have been tightened. If you have the financial means, have a place at a legitimate University and a sufficient grasp of the English language you can now get in and can work here on graduating.

pp

There are currently around 500,000 university places provided each year in the UK. Since there's nothing to prevent universities expanding to accept more fee-paying foreign students, and there are millions of Indian students, the next limit is the number of jobs they can get (at any legal rate of pay) upon graduation. That doesn't seem likely to result in overall 'net immigration in the tens of thousands' as stated on the Conservative party website.

You are assuming all of the young population of India has the inclination and means to study for a degree in the UK. Remember a significant number of the young population are iliterate and lack the means to a buy a bicycle, let alone pay UK uni fees. Of the those that want and can afford to get a degree, many are choosing the USA and Canada over the UK. Hence Dave's efforts to make them more welcome here.

pp

[Fantic SuperT]

Pickled Piper said:

You are assuming all of the young population of India has the inclination and means to study for a degree in the UK. Remember a significant number of the young population are iliterate and lack the means to a buy a bicycle, let alone pay UK uni fees. Of the those that want and can afford to get a degree, many are choosing the USA and Canada over the UK. Hence Dave's efforts to make them more welcome here.

pp

No I wasn't. I took the 17% figure that was the proportion of Indian students who came to the UK in 2010, although I have assumed the same number of Indians could study for a degree as British under 25s (to avoid discrimination based upon race or nationality) at 50% of the total of under 25s.
"Assuming only 17% chose to study in the UK that leaves 51,425,000 who could be looking for work after graduation and may accept lower wages that the current workforce (as happened in IT)."
In reality this number will be lower because our foreign aid budget doesn't currently stretch to providing education for all of them. There is however, an enormous number of potential students if India continues to grow economically.
BTW: You misspelt illiterate.

[fido]

FiF said:

It's the same in Sheffield, and whilst the "HK" lot seem reasonably pleasant the mainland ones are just so unbelievably arrogant and ignorant it's untrue.

I pretty much agree and i'm from (or not) that minority group! Can be a total nightmare to deal with at work as well - either get the spoilt ones (my dad is a very high up in the Party) or the older ones who aren't very PC to say the least - one of the few times i've threatened to take someone to HR for stepping over the line. "HK" lot are mostly second-generation Brits. Again some generalising here but i'm getting tired of my back-packing friends telling me how great everyone is in China - you get c8nts everywhere.

Edited by fido on Wednesday 20th February 12:09

[BoRED S2upid]

No limit? Does he know how many people are in that country?

[Pothole]

BoRED S2upid said:

No limit? Does he know how many people are in that country?

Do you know how to read a whole thread?

[Caulkhead]

I'm surprised how many people on here can't understand the difference between paying to attend a university course in the UK and being an immigrant.

[Pothole]

Caulkhead said:

I'm surprised how many people on here can't understand the difference between paying to attend a university course in the UK and being an immigrant.

Why?

[jonny70]

JensenA said:

Because one statement concerns uncontrolled immigration, and the other is allowing University Graduates who have studied in the UK AND obtained a job, to stay here.

Itss actually a really good policy. The Indians that go to UK universities have to pay overseas fees upfront (no loans) of something like 13 grand a year, so it will attract wealthy students who will also spend spend.

Bogus student vias has been clamped down on and this is only applicable to uni students.

[Pickled Piper]

jonny70 said:

JensenA said:

Because one statement concerns uncontrolled immigration, and the other is allowing University Graduates who have studied in the UK AND obtained a job, to stay here.

Itss actually a really good policy. The Indians that go to UK universities have to pay overseas fees upfront (no loans) of something like 13 grand a year, so it will attract wealthy students who will also spend spend.

Bogus student vias has been clamped down on and this is only applicable to uni students.

My point exactly.

Can't see why it is an issue. Wealthy students coming here and pumping money into our Universites. Some of whom will then remain here in graduate level jobs and pay UK tax. Can't say it's high on my list of worries. I am more concerned about people coming here specifically to screw the benefits system.

pp

[ralphrj]

Fantic SuperT said:

I took the 17% figure that was the proportion of Indian students who came to the UK in 2010

Where does that figure of 17% come from? I can't believe that 17% of all Indian students come to the UK to study (only 15% of Indian students even go to high school).