Kitchen drawers open by themselves!
Discussion
I'm hoping the PH kitchen cabinet experts can help me with this one.
We had a new kitchen installed last year, and many of the drawers are extra deep, with 700mm or 750mm Grass soft close runners. The problem is that when they are loaded, they won't stay part open -if you open them one third of the way, they will continue to open on their own, accelerating as they go until they crash on the opening end stops -not good for china and glass!
We had the Grass rep in to look at them, and he sent a pair of runners back to Switzerland for testing, but the diagnosis was that there was no fault with the runners -apparently the specification allows 4% sag at max load. It seems abvious to me that a free running slide won't stay put on that much of a gradient. My personal view is that runner sections which are stiff enough for a standard 500mm runner are not up to the job of a 750mm runner.
So my question is, how do you get round this? The slides are currently installed square and level -should they be tilted down at the back? Problem then is that to get the drawer fronts parallel with the cabinet will be difficult.
Are we the only people to have ever had this problem?
We had a new kitchen installed last year, and many of the drawers are extra deep, with 700mm or 750mm Grass soft close runners. The problem is that when they are loaded, they won't stay part open -if you open them one third of the way, they will continue to open on their own, accelerating as they go until they crash on the opening end stops -not good for china and glass!
We had the Grass rep in to look at them, and he sent a pair of runners back to Switzerland for testing, but the diagnosis was that there was no fault with the runners -apparently the specification allows 4% sag at max load. It seems abvious to me that a free running slide won't stay put on that much of a gradient. My personal view is that runner sections which are stiff enough for a standard 500mm runner are not up to the job of a 750mm runner.
So my question is, how do you get round this? The slides are currently installed square and level -should they be tilted down at the back? Problem then is that to get the drawer fronts parallel with the cabinet will be difficult.
Are we the only people to have ever had this problem?
Do the runners have an adjustment at the back of the drawer ?
If so, this allows the runners to be fitted to the carcasses out of level,(down at the back by a few mm) and an adjustment can be made at the back of the drawer so the drawer itself is level and the drawer front plumb.
.... If there is no mechanical adjustment at the back of the drawer, try packing the drawer up off the runners at the back to achieve the same thing.g
If so, this allows the runners to be fitted to the carcasses out of level,(down at the back by a few mm) and an adjustment can be made at the back of the drawer so the drawer itself is level and the drawer front plumb.
.... If there is no mechanical adjustment at the back of the drawer, try packing the drawer up off the runners at the back to achieve the same thing.g
I take it that the drawer boxes or the runners are distorting, and causing what was straight and level to bend into a downhill slope? You could of course try altering the angle of the runners by unscrewing at the back and, if they have any unused holes in the runners, set them at a downward angle and use the new holes to screw them in at that angle.
If that's no good, would the drawers fit onto a different make? Reason I ask is that the heavily laden drawers in my workshop are on 750mm heavy duty Blum Tandem runners, and behave perfectly.
If that's no good, would the drawers fit onto a different make? Reason I ask is that the heavily laden drawers in my workshop are on 750mm heavy duty Blum Tandem runners, and behave perfectly.
singlecoil said:
I take it that the drawer boxes or the runners are distorting, and causing what was straight and level to bend into a downhill slope? You could of course try altering the angle of the runners by unscrewing at the back and, if they have any unused holes in the runners, set them at a downward angle and use the new holes to screw them in at that angle.
The runners themselves are bending, the drawer boxes are rigid plywood construction. The back of the runner attaches via a height adjustable plastic mounting, which could be repositioned to compensate for tilted runners.singlecoil said:
If that's no good, would the drawers fit onto a different make? Reason I ask is that the heavily laden drawers in my workshop are on 750mm heavy duty Blum Tandem runners, and behave perfectly.
These runners are Grass Dynapro, to all extents and purposes identical to the Blum Tandem, with a 60kg weight rating. I just don't understand (a) why 4% deflection is acceptable and (b) how you could not then expect the drawer to fall open. If you push on the edge of an open, laden drawer, it really is quite bouncy -are your Blum runners perfectly rigid?V10Mike said:
singlecoil said:
I take it that the drawer boxes or the runners are distorting, and causing what was straight and level to bend into a downhill slope? You could of course try altering the angle of the runners by unscrewing at the back and, if they have any unused holes in the runners, set them at a downward angle and use the new holes to screw them in at that angle.
The runners themselves are bending, the drawer boxes are rigid plywood construction. The back of the runner attaches via a height adjustable plastic mounting, which could be repositioned to compensate for tilted runners.singlecoil said:
If that's no good, would the drawers fit onto a different make? Reason I ask is that the heavily laden drawers in my workshop are on 750mm heavy duty Blum Tandem runners, and behave perfectly.
These runners are Grass Dynapro, to all extents and purposes identical to the Blum Tandem, with a 60kg weight rating. I just don't understand (a) why 4% deflection is acceptable and (b) how you could not then expect the drawer to fall open. If you push on the edge of an open, laden drawer, it really is quite bouncy -are your Blum runners perfectly rigid?My drawers will certainly deflect if I push down on them, but when used normally, they behave correctly. One drawers has a large quantity of screws in it, plus 5 or 6 12v drills of various types and a couple of spare batteries, and other bits and bobs.
It's not down to you to fix it, the suppliers have to come up with a solution. No good them telling you there's nothing wrong with thd sliders, you don't really care what the problem is do you? You just want it fixed and have paid good money for them to install it properly.
I'd ask them when they're going to fix it or should you get a professional in to do it and send them the bill? Then if they say no, get it fixed by another company and small claims court. They'll be like Oscar Pistorious. Not a leg to stand on.
I'd ask them when they're going to fix it or should you get a professional in to do it and send them the bill? Then if they say no, get it fixed by another company and small claims court. They'll be like Oscar Pistorious. Not a leg to stand on.
I used to love grass runners and would only ever use them - then they changed to the new type with larger front adjustament clips and rear plastic clips (I assume you have these?)
They are horrible runners and the rear clips are incredibly poor.
Good news is that Blum (Blumotion) runners should be a direct swap (new blum clips for drawer box front) and 6mm locator hole drilled into rear of drawer box.
If you need anything drop me a pm!
They are horrible runners and the rear clips are incredibly poor.
Good news is that Blum (Blumotion) runners should be a direct swap (new blum clips for drawer box front) and 6mm locator hole drilled into rear of drawer box.
If you need anything drop me a pm!
V10Mike said:
These runners are Grass Dynapro, to all extents and purposes identical to the Blum Tandem, with a 60kg weight rating. I just don't understand (a) why 4% deflection is acceptable and (b) how you could not then expect the drawer to fall open. If you push on the edge of an open, laden drawer, it really is quite bouncy -are your Blum runners perfectly rigid?
Are you sure these are rated to 60KG a drawer? That's heck of alot of weight. These are also very deep drawer runners and it would be interesting to find out what the rated max weight is, at half and full extension.
Glad to read this thread, I was seriously considering using these runners because of their ease of adjustment, I'm not a great lover of Blum. Guess I'll stick to my usual supplier.
Probably best to give the Grass runners a try youself before writing them off.
I find the rear adjustment to be handy in some circumstances and much better than having no adjustment at all. The front clips are excellent and the self close mech very effective. Who`d have thought 30 years ago the more weight you put in a drawer the more feely it would run.
I`ve been using them for over a year now, over a hundred pairs, with and without the Easys openers and have been pleased.
On a couple of occaions I have had this wayward run out problem but as I say, it`s an easy fix... drop the rear of the runners by 2=3 mil, then use the rear adjustment to compensate and bring the drawer front flush.
I find the rear adjustment to be handy in some circumstances and much better than having no adjustment at all. The front clips are excellent and the self close mech very effective. Who`d have thought 30 years ago the more weight you put in a drawer the more feely it would run.
I`ve been using them for over a year now, over a hundred pairs, with and without the Easys openers and have been pleased.
On a couple of occaions I have had this wayward run out problem but as I say, it`s an easy fix... drop the rear of the runners by 2=3 mil, then use the rear adjustment to compensate and bring the drawer front flush.
loughran said:
Probably best to give the Grass runners a try youself before writing them off.
Who is that addressed to(use the quote feature to avoid doubt)?If it's addressed to me, I'm not writing off Grass runners, but as the Blum runners that I use have always worked perfectly, and the new Blum Movento are even better than the previous Tandem, I have no intention of using anything else.
loughran said:
On a couple of occaions I have had this wayward run out problem but as I say, it`s an easy fix... drop the rear of the runners by 2=3 mil, then use the rear adjustment to compensate and bring the drawer front flush.
This. I got fed up with the fitters and had a go myself over the weekend. It's a surprisingly small adjustment to get them working properly -I ended up dropping the back of the runner 4mm (on 750mm runners), refixing the rear supports the same amount lower to level the drawer and everything now works as it should. The runners themselves are now not quite level when closed, but level when fully open and unloaded.Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff