rwd inline 4 question

[thatcoolwind]

hello everyone,first time poster,saw this site a couple of times on searches,figured i would ask here as well

i am looking for an engine to use in a one-off tube chassis car my buddy and i will be building,we'd like to keep the weight down so we decided to go for an inline-4

dohc
inline 4
rwd or awd
timing belt
no variable valve timing

the only engine i know that fits this is mitsubishi 4g63

nissan sr20 and mazda b uses chain
hondas are fwd and have vvt
subarus are boxer
don't know much about the german,american or toyota engines

any more ideas ?

[Munter]

I'd look at what's popular in the caterham/westfield seven type world.

Ford zetec & duratech, rover k-series, toyota 4age (out of the AE86/mk1 mr2) I think is done as well, the engine out of the mk1/2 MX5 might fit the bill as well but a tad heavy I suspect.

Whats the reason behind belt and not chain?

[bertieg]

how much power are you after? mk1 mx5 engines and boxes can be had very cheap. i know as i can hardly give mine away!

[thatcoolwind]

Munter said:

I'd look at what's popular in the caterham/westfield seven type world.

Ford zetec & duratech, rover k-series, toyota 4age (out of the AE86/mk1 mr2) I think is done as well, the engine out of the mk1/2 MX5 might fit the bill as well but a tad heavy I suspect.

Whats the reason behind belt and not chain?

i thought ford 4 cylinders were fwd
i dont live in the uk so it would be hard for me to get a caterham or rover engine

will check out ford and toyota 4age too then,thanks

the reason behind belt not chain is

belts run smoother
they don't do as much damage as a chain if they snap or stretch
less weight on a rotating part means more power
you don't have to lubricate a timing belt

[jimbob82]

I'd go chain over belt everyday. If a belt or chain snaps its gonna mulla the engine anyway but a chain is much less likely to snap if its a good one.

[NotNormal]

Vauxhall 1.6, 2.0 and 2.2 DOHC engines can all be used in RWD format either by adaptor plate and type9 gearbox or straight bolt up to a Carlton or Omega gearbox depending whether you want manual or hydraulic clutch.

Great engines and plenty of choice for tuning should you wish

[Munter]

thatcoolwind said:

i thought ford 4 cylinders were fwd

As with the Vauxhall/Opel engines above by use of (relatively common), parts you can spin them around to be inline. Older fords (e.g. Sierras), were RWD and lot's of kits used their bits. Then I think people wanted to keep using the rwd drive train with the new engines.

[thatcoolwind]

jimbob82 said:

I'd go chain over belt everyday. If a belt or chain snaps its gonna mulla the engine anyway but a chain is much less likely to snap if its a good one.

a fiber reinforced or kevlar belt basically does not stretch and is very hard to snap
its a matter of preference really as both are solid if maintained properly

on topic,if opel engines can become rwd with a simple adapter plate i'll be looking into them as well,its good that mounting and space isn't a problem,opens up possibilties

i looked into toyota 4a-ge and decided against it due to the staged manifold,we want a simple engine as they are easier to tune

thanks for the suggestions so far guys

[stevesingo]

BMW S14 from the E30M3 or the M42 from the 318iS.

Both chains mind you. Your argument against belt does not survive much scrutiny. I believes belts are a minority in modern DOHC engines these days.

[anonymous-user]

I can't see how you'd not fit a FORD duratec tbh.

Cheap
Easily availible
Decent head design (so good power capability)
Loads of tuning parts from ITB's to ECU's to cam's etc
Lots of gearbox adaptors availible

The only downside i can think of is that it is a relatively tall engine.

Boggo (~150 bhp):




Not Boggo (200 - 300bhp)

[jimbob82]

thatcoolwind said:

a fiber reinforced or kevlar belt basically does not stretch and is very hard to snap
its a matter of preference really as both are solid if maintained properly

i'd still go chain. honda f20's use helicals and chains IIRC. it's the "safest" way of doing it without drastically affecting power, though the power losses of using a chain are minimal compared to the durability of them IMO

[stevieturbo]

thatcoolwind said:

i thought ford 4 cylinders were fwd
i dont live in the uk so it would be hard for me to get a caterham or rover engine

will check out ford and toyota 4age too then,thanks

the reason behind belt not chain is

belts run smoother
they don't do as much damage as a chain if they snap or stretch
less weight on a rotating part means more power
you don't have to lubricate a timing belt

What country are you in, and what range of used parts do you have access to then ?

As for belt running smoother. You said this is an off road vehicle. Just exactly how smooth do you need it to be ?
Chains rarely fail, as for power....any difference will be miniscule.
And you dont have to lubricate the chain either, it's already done ! Unless you intend running the engine with no oil ?

Just cant see any sense in your reasoning behind ruling things out.

And what sort of power/torque are you after ?

[HustleRussell]

Use a bike engine

[jimbob82]

today's best weight saving tip:

stevieturbo said:

run the engine with no oil

[jimbob82]

my vote is k series also. get a VVC engine and stick some naughty solid piper cams in there with some nice rods and higher comp forged pistons, get the head ported (cnc heads do an awesome job) get a good manifold and exhaust system made up and she's a flyer

[anonymous-user]

jimbob82 said:

my vote is k series also. get a VVC engine and stick some naughty solid piper cams in there with some nice rods and higher comp forged pistons, get the head ported (cnc heads do an awesome job) get a good manifold and exhaust system made up and she's a flyer

But that will cost 4x as much as just shoving a completely std Duratec in which can easily produce the same power (and more torque) than the K!

Unless you have some reason to use a small capacity engine(race regs, tight package etc) then a totally std Duratec will net you 150bhp, and a simple change to ITBs & ECU (no internal mech changes) will see you knocking on the door of 200..........


As mentioned above, for super easy job, just find a crashed 2.0 Mx5 and rip the drivetrain out complete. Engine + Tranny + Loom/ecu. even Diff/ suspension if you fancy.

[PhillipM]

Why would it matter if it has VVT, or even if it's front wheel drive in the standard car, I thought this was supposed to be a custom chassis?
You should be able to make anything fit in there, and if it's off road, a chain is a massive benefit over a belt as it's usually enclosed and you don't have to worry about dirt/stones getting in....

If you're going for an inline 4 because of size and weight I'd be looking carefully at an F20C (or a bike engine, depends what you're doing with the car)




edited due to not being able to read.

Edited by PhillipM on Friday 22 February 22:37

[thatcoolwind]

i would first like to tell that its not an off-road vechile

my friend operates a chassis and bodywork shop,a customer of his approached him for a tvr/lotus style small,fast no frills track toy,me and him will be building it in his spare time (why does the guy just dont buy one is beyond me but hey its a fun project and a good way to profit since all is custom made)

we will be building a space frame and bolt on aluminum body panels

the reason for those spesifics is that we'd like to choose the cams and internals,send it to someone for balancing and assembly,slap on a turbo then tune it and be done

i would also like to add that i have nothing against timing chains,i just prefer belts to them for reasons previously mentioned

anyway thanks for all the suggestions,i will be looking into opel and ford engines as well

[anonymous-user]

thatcoolwind said:

the reason behind belt not chain is

belts run smoother
they don't do as much damage as a chain if they snap or stretch
less weight on a rotating part means more power
you don't have to lubricate a timing belt

None of those reasons are sound in any engineering terms whatsoever unfortunately..........

[jimbob82]

thatcoolwind said:

...slap on a turbo...

you should have put this bit in your original post. If he has money to burn I'll build him a nice v8 turbo lol