Priorities Right?
Discussion
So, shoplifting (Thieving from shops!) is to be no longer a criminal offence and will be dealt with by way of an £80 FPN, according to one paper.
Speeding is £60 PFN plus 3 points towards loss of job, home and career.
I would, therefore, be at less risk to my lifestyle, job and career to be caught nicking a DVD player from Currys than for doing 35 mph at 02-00 hours in a 30 limit.
How much crazier are we going to allow our society to get?
Speeding is £60 PFN plus 3 points towards loss of job, home and career.
I would, therefore, be at less risk to my lifestyle, job and career to be caught nicking a DVD player from Currys than for doing 35 mph at 02-00 hours in a 30 limit.
How much crazier are we going to allow our society to get?
Cooperman said:
So, shoplifting (Thieving from shops!) is to be no longer a criminal offence and will be dealt with by way of an £80 FPN, according to one paper.
Speeding is £60 PFN plus 3 points towards loss of job, home and career.
I would, therefore, be at less risk to my lifestyle, job and career to be caught nicking a DVD player from Currys than for doing 35 mph at 02-00 hours in a 30 limit.
How much crazier are we going to allow our society to get?
Unfortunately I believe that in 10 or 15 years, we will all look back and this this move is comparitivly sane compared to what things will be like...
Saddens me, it really does, and im only 25!!!
Streetcop said:Always voted blue anyway Street.
Yes...it's all a bit crazy....
The fixed penalty for the shoplifting...is an idea to free up police time..ie: a couple of hours processing time for a jar of coffee...
As for the government...you know who to vote next time..."keep it blue..."
Street
The present gov is the worst in a long time IMHO.
The laws passed nowadays are a load of b*ll*cks and encourage criminality. One wonders about the people who pass these daft laws!!
Streetcop said:
Yes...it's all a bit crazy....
The fixed penalty for the shoplifting...is an idea to free up police time..ie: a couple of hours processing time for a jar of coffee...
As for the government...you know who to vote next time..."keep it blue..."
Street
I got a better idea.
Chop their
hands off. Draconian? Yes.
Barbaric? Yes.
Violent? Yes.
Will the crime rate disappear overnight? YES!
It's all leading to a total disrespect for the law and all it stands for.
30 to 40 years ago stealing was stealing, mugging was 'robbery with violence', if you got banned for a motoring offence(s) it was justified, 'life' for murder meant, probably, 25 years minimum, not many would drive whilst uninsured or disqual., and the Police Force were held in some esteem as friends of the average man.
Now, it 'Politically Correct' time, Human Rights are all that matters and the Police are becoming tools of a very undemocratic administration.
It's time the Police Federation, representing the ordinary police officer, spoke out. It is no good their simply saying that whilst they may not agree with the situation they are 'just enforcing the laws, good or bad'. Bad and stupid laws make for people ignoring those laws and a consequent disrepect for all laws. The anti-hunting legislation will be ignored resulting in the "police force in pursuit of the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable".
Of course it hasn't come to it yet, but the police in France in WW2 were just enforcing the law and doing their job when they arrested the Jews for handing over to the Gestapo. The American Police were just doing as ordered when they shot the anti-Vietnam war demonstrators in the late 60's and early 70's.
Unless the police become the friends of the public again rather than followers of a political agenda, relations between police and public will deteriorate further.
From the BiB's on here it is clear that they can see that what they are being instructed to do is not what people actually want them to do.
I'm 63 and have been driving for over 45 years. I never thought I would have to say this, but if I was disqualified for a few minor speeding offences I would have no alternative but to continue to drive. I minimise that risk by having the necessary countermeasures on board and by fitting a broken front number plate when on long journeys.
That's what it's come to. A shabby and undemocratic government supported by a bunch of Chief Constables for whom power and position are more important than doing their job (i.e. controlling crime) and a 'Policeman's Union' which won't speak up in support of the public's needs and beliefs.
30 to 40 years ago stealing was stealing, mugging was 'robbery with violence', if you got banned for a motoring offence(s) it was justified, 'life' for murder meant, probably, 25 years minimum, not many would drive whilst uninsured or disqual., and the Police Force were held in some esteem as friends of the average man.
Now, it 'Politically Correct' time, Human Rights are all that matters and the Police are becoming tools of a very undemocratic administration.
It's time the Police Federation, representing the ordinary police officer, spoke out. It is no good their simply saying that whilst they may not agree with the situation they are 'just enforcing the laws, good or bad'. Bad and stupid laws make for people ignoring those laws and a consequent disrepect for all laws. The anti-hunting legislation will be ignored resulting in the "police force in pursuit of the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable".
Of course it hasn't come to it yet, but the police in France in WW2 were just enforcing the law and doing their job when they arrested the Jews for handing over to the Gestapo. The American Police were just doing as ordered when they shot the anti-Vietnam war demonstrators in the late 60's and early 70's.
Unless the police become the friends of the public again rather than followers of a political agenda, relations between police and public will deteriorate further.
From the BiB's on here it is clear that they can see that what they are being instructed to do is not what people actually want them to do.
I'm 63 and have been driving for over 45 years. I never thought I would have to say this, but if I was disqualified for a few minor speeding offences I would have no alternative but to continue to drive. I minimise that risk by having the necessary countermeasures on board and by fitting a broken front number plate when on long journeys.
That's what it's come to. A shabby and undemocratic government supported by a bunch of Chief Constables for whom power and position are more important than doing their job (i.e. controlling crime) and a 'Policeman's Union' which won't speak up in support of the public's needs and beliefs.
Cooperman said:
......
It's time the Police Federation, representing the ordinary police officer, spoke out. It is no good their simply saying that whilst they may not agree with the situation they are 'just enforcing the laws, good or bad'. Bad and stupid laws make for people ignoring those laws and a consequent disrepect for all laws. The anti-hunting legislation will be ignored resulting in the "police force in pursuit of the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable".
Of course it hasn't come to it yet, but the police in France in WW2 were just enforcing the law and doing their job when they arrested the Jews for handing over to the Gestapo. The American Police were just doing as ordered when they shot the anti-Vietnam war demonstrators in the late 60's and early 70's.
Unless the police become the friends of the public again rather than followers of a political agenda, relations between police and public will deteriorate further.
From the BiB's on here it is clear that they can see that what they are being instructed to do is not what people actually want them to do.
That's what it's come to. A shabby and undemocratic government supported by a bunch of Chief Constables for whom power and position are more important than doing their job (i.e. controlling crime) and a 'Policeman's Union' which won't speak up in support of the public's needs and beliefs.
Cooperman. I bow to your total and utter common sense and statement of facts as they are
uppercase added for emphasis [text]
>> Edited by blademan on Monday 20th September 12:20
[quote=
Cooperman. I bow to your total and utter common sense and statement of facts as they are
uppercase added for emphasis [text]
>> Edited by blademan on Monday 20th September 12:20[/quote]
Well, thank you Blademan.
To expand my own thoughts a bit more, if I may, I have held a licence to drive a motor vehicle since 1959 and in that time have been caught speeding 3 times, once in 1963, once in 1974 and once in 1988. I've had but one accident, in 1973 at 20 mph in Manchester. I drive around 20,000 per annum now, although when younger I used to do around 30,000 p.a. I never drink and drive.
Never, ever, did I think that I was at any risk of losing my licence through 'totting-up', but, although I still have a clean licence, I feel the need to take countermeasures to prevent the risk.
I have my cars registered to a couple of currently non-trading Limited companies which I can dissolve quickly in the event of NIP's arriving (this would leave the police to chase through the accountants). I have a duplicate licence so that I would always be able to drive abroad. I use a broken numberplate on the front when doing long journeys out of the areas I know well to defeat talivans and SPECS.
If I did lose my licence I would have to continue to drive without one, as I live in a village 35 miles from my office and with no suitable public transport system, or close down my office and business with the loss of 10 jobs.
Am I irresponsible? As a 63-year old grandad I would never have considered myself to be, but this is what the current bad application of the law has brought me to. If me, then how many others as well?
It is not only in road transport that the application of so-called 'politically desirable' laws is being applied. Hunting is the thin end of the wedge, free-speech is curtailed by anti-racist laws, new laws to prevent terrorism seem to be a 'catch-all' to control ordinary peoples lives to a greater degree and employment legislation controls who I can employ in my own company funded with my own personal assets.
IMHO the Police Federation must get the public back on 'their side' by presenting a united front to the Home Office via the Chief Constables and stating that they will no longer be used for political ends at the expense of the long-standing good relations between ordinary policemen and Mr. Average. I was brought up in an era when the policeman on the beat was a friend and someone who would help in any difficulty. Not so now. He/she is more concerned with meeting targets for prosecutions for minor offences committed by people who are unlikely to fight back. My daughter, for instance, who worked late shifts and arrived home at 02-00 hours and parked just on a double yellow line rather than walk the dark streets alone. She got a parking ticket from a patrol car at 05-00 hours and now considers the 'Old Bill' to be stupid and unfeeling people. Surely a note on the screen would have sufficed as a warning.
Boys-in-blue, you are missing the 'big picture' here, in which you are increasingly tools of a control-freak' administration.
Before you accuse me of being anti-police, I have a lot of friends who are serving or former officers. In fact I used to manage the Met Police Rally Team some years ago and met many super and dedicated officers at all levels.
Please BiB chaps, try to remember that we want to be on your side, do try to be on ours.
Cooperman. I bow to your total and utter common sense and statement of facts as they are
uppercase added for emphasis [text]
>> Edited by blademan on Monday 20th September 12:20[/quote]
Well, thank you Blademan.
To expand my own thoughts a bit more, if I may, I have held a licence to drive a motor vehicle since 1959 and in that time have been caught speeding 3 times, once in 1963, once in 1974 and once in 1988. I've had but one accident, in 1973 at 20 mph in Manchester. I drive around 20,000 per annum now, although when younger I used to do around 30,000 p.a. I never drink and drive.
Never, ever, did I think that I was at any risk of losing my licence through 'totting-up', but, although I still have a clean licence, I feel the need to take countermeasures to prevent the risk.
I have my cars registered to a couple of currently non-trading Limited companies which I can dissolve quickly in the event of NIP's arriving (this would leave the police to chase through the accountants). I have a duplicate licence so that I would always be able to drive abroad. I use a broken numberplate on the front when doing long journeys out of the areas I know well to defeat talivans and SPECS.
If I did lose my licence I would have to continue to drive without one, as I live in a village 35 miles from my office and with no suitable public transport system, or close down my office and business with the loss of 10 jobs.
Am I irresponsible? As a 63-year old grandad I would never have considered myself to be, but this is what the current bad application of the law has brought me to. If me, then how many others as well?
It is not only in road transport that the application of so-called 'politically desirable' laws is being applied. Hunting is the thin end of the wedge, free-speech is curtailed by anti-racist laws, new laws to prevent terrorism seem to be a 'catch-all' to control ordinary peoples lives to a greater degree and employment legislation controls who I can employ in my own company funded with my own personal assets.
IMHO the Police Federation must get the public back on 'their side' by presenting a united front to the Home Office via the Chief Constables and stating that they will no longer be used for political ends at the expense of the long-standing good relations between ordinary policemen and Mr. Average. I was brought up in an era when the policeman on the beat was a friend and someone who would help in any difficulty. Not so now. He/she is more concerned with meeting targets for prosecutions for minor offences committed by people who are unlikely to fight back. My daughter, for instance, who worked late shifts and arrived home at 02-00 hours and parked just on a double yellow line rather than walk the dark streets alone. She got a parking ticket from a patrol car at 05-00 hours and now considers the 'Old Bill' to be stupid and unfeeling people. Surely a note on the screen would have sufficed as a warning.
Boys-in-blue, you are missing the 'big picture' here, in which you are increasingly tools of a control-freak' administration.
Before you accuse me of being anti-police, I have a lot of friends who are serving or former officers. In fact I used to manage the Met Police Rally Team some years ago and met many super and dedicated officers at all levels.
Please BiB chaps, try to remember that we want to be on your side, do try to be on ours.
[/quote]
Hi Cooperman.
I am not quite as advanced in years as you ( by 20 to be precise ) but I have been driving for 25 years and still have a clean licence. I have had one accident that was my fault ( only a 5mph shunt in the back ) and I have myself been shunted in the back once. Thats it. I havent been scammed (yet) but had two recent near misses. I think that the whole concept of improving road safety is flawed. What is needed is a better quality of drivers who due consideration for others and realistic traffic policing ie the way it used to be!!. Fining and pointing people is just alienating drivers from the Police as you say. Personally I feel sympathy for the Police. They have to enforce these crap laws even if they wouldnt choose to. It is the law makers and the "support system" that have got this all wrong. As you say, the bobbie used to be known by all locals and a friend etc ( and TBH probably still is in some cases ) but it is very hard to enforce laws that are percieved by the majority as being ill founded. I reckon that "most" law abiding people will tow the line, maybe, sometimes begrudgingly, if they know in the heart of hearts that the law is realistic.
The current speeding enforcement policy is seen by a large % of drivers as being all about revenue. The policy is only slowing drivers down because of penalties.... not because there is an educating process involved.
P.S. Cooperman.....less of the small text next time mate. My eyesight aint that good
>> Edited by blademan on Monday 20th September 14:00
Hi Cooperman.
I am not quite as advanced in years as you ( by 20 to be precise ) but I have been driving for 25 years and still have a clean licence. I have had one accident that was my fault ( only a 5mph shunt in the back ) and I have myself been shunted in the back once. Thats it. I havent been scammed (yet) but had two recent near misses. I think that the whole concept of improving road safety is flawed. What is needed is a better quality of drivers who due consideration for others and realistic traffic policing ie the way it used to be!!. Fining and pointing people is just alienating drivers from the Police as you say. Personally I feel sympathy for the Police. They have to enforce these crap laws even if they wouldnt choose to. It is the law makers and the "support system" that have got this all wrong. As you say, the bobbie used to be known by all locals and a friend etc ( and TBH probably still is in some cases ) but it is very hard to enforce laws that are percieved by the majority as being ill founded. I reckon that "most" law abiding people will tow the line, maybe, sometimes begrudgingly, if they know in the heart of hearts that the law is realistic.
The current speeding enforcement policy is seen by a large % of drivers as being all about revenue. The policy is only slowing drivers down because of penalties.... not because there is an educating process involved.
P.S. Cooperman.....less of the small text next time mate. My eyesight aint that good
>> Edited by blademan on Monday 20th September 14:00
IOLAIRE said:
Cooperman and Blademan please read my posts and then join up with myself and others including Paul Smith so that we can change this
IOLAIRE, I have in fact already read your posts. I think I understand how you feel, ( re the thread about your son for eg ) but what do you have in mind. I'm not one to just lie down and take this sh*t but what can we do? This goverment clearly does not listen to the electorate, and it will (hopefully) mean they won't get voted in again. But TBH do you honestly reckon that a Tory government will do a U turn on scamera's. My guess is at best they will not erect any more, but would not tear down the existing ones. I reckon that scams are now seen as another source of "guaranteed" revenue, as with petrol tax etc. People fought the poll tax and it was dropped..... only after some had to do time for non payment. What do you have in mind apart from a revolution?
blademan said:
Cooperman and Blademan please read my posts and then join up with myself and others including Paul Smith so that we can change this
IOLAIRE, I have in fact already read your posts. I think I understand how you feel, ( re the thread about your son for eg ) but what do you have in mind. I'm not one to just lie down and take this sh*t but what can we do? This goverment clearly does not listen to the electorate, and it will (hopefully) mean they won't get voted in again. But TBH do you honestly reckon that a Tory government will do a U turn on scamera's. My guess is at best they will not erect any more, but would not tear down the existing ones. I reckon that scams are now seen as another source of "guaranteed" revenue, as with petrol tax etc. People fought the poll tax and it was dropped..... only after some had to do time for non payment. What do you have in mind apart from a revolution?
The government may not listen to the eloctorate but unfortunately the majority of the electorate are thick!
Look at the recent thing about changing fines and points for speeding - anyone with half an IQ above 70 would have noticed that the new measures are more lenient in 30MPH zones than NSL, even though that is where the SCAMERA lot claim it is worse to speed! Add to that the fact that "THE SUN" claimed they had made a major victory for hard pressed motorists when this was announced and you see the problem.
THE SUN (and most of the media) are puppets - the voice of propaganda - for the blairy bunch and the majority of the public have no long term memory. Just before the next election blair will lie - the papers will back him up and he'll be back in no 10!
If you remember just before the last election the there was some massively publisised "tax giveway" to the worse off, by raising the starting point of incom tax - it equated to about 75p a week for the poorest families, yet there was The Sun pointing out that things couldn't be better because Brown had given everyone a tax cut.
jesusbuiltmycar said:
IOLAIRE said:
Cooperman and Blademan please read my posts and then join up with myself and others including Paul Smith so that we can change this
IOLAIRE, I have in fact already read your posts. I think I understand how you feel, ( re the thread about your son for eg ) but what do you have in mind. I'm not one to just lie down and take this sh*t but what can we do? This goverment clearly does not listen to the electorate, and it will (hopefully) mean they won't get voted in again. But TBH do you honestly reckon that a Tory government will do a U turn on scamera's. My guess is at best they will not erect any more, but would not tear down the existing ones. I reckon that scams are now seen as another source of "guaranteed" revenue, as with petrol tax etc. People fought the poll tax and it was dropped..... only after some had to do time for non payment. What do you have in mind apart from a revolution?
The government may not listen to the eloctorate but unfortunately the majority of the electorate are thick!
Look at the recent thing about changing fines and points for speeding - anyone with half an IQ above 70 would have noticed that the new measures are more lenient in 30MPH zones than NSL, even though that is where the SCAMERA lot claim it is worse to speed! Add to that the fact that "THE SUN" claimed they had made a major victory for hard pressed motorists when this was announced and you see the problem.
THE SUN (and most of the media) are puppets - the voice of propaganda - for the blairy bunch and the majority of the public have no long term memory. Just before the next election blair will lie - the papers will back him up and he'll be back in no 10!
If you remember just before the last election the there was some massively publisised "tax giveway" to the worse off, by raising the starting point of incom tax - it equated to about 75p a week for the poorest families, yet there was The Sun pointing out that things couldn't be better because Brown had given everyone a tax cut.
If you think that a change of Government is going to make the slightest difference to even our smallest problems then you are seriously deluded.
Modern political history has proven this over and over.
It has nothing to do with socialist or conservative principles. The only way to change things is to put pressure on the Government and the system via a powerful, but non-political organisation, that is educated in it's driving motifs and has no need to get elected or do anything other than represent the true will and best interests of the people. An intellectual force that exists as a conduit between the people and Government.
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