dry sump pan, is the baffle needed

[gumpetung]

Hi Pistonheads,

Just installed a new alloy dry sump pan on my 1600 ford Xflow.
Once fitted and ready to start the engine, one of the main bolts crashed into the baffle the engine was totally stuck.
I removed the baffle af fitted the sump again.

Question do I need the baffle?

Look at bolt #3

[stevieturbo]

And bolt no3 is what or where exactly ?

[gumpetung]

Counting bolts from the left

More detailed picture


Damage to the main bolt, sorry for the shake

[YankeePorker]

Careful ball pean hammer adjustment of the baffle is required, with maybe the support on the sump where that baffle retaining bolt fits cut back a bit and the bolt shortened accordingly. A least, that would be my approach rather than considering complete removal of the baffle.

[stevieturbo]

So it's actually a big end bolt that's hitting, not a main bolt.

I would say not to remove the baffle plate, if a small area needs adjusted ( ie a hole cut in it ) then just do that.

But surely if this kit is for a XFlow, and the standard stroke crank is used...why does it not fit ?

[Mr2Mike]

On a dry sump the baffle plate usually works as a crank scraper which is why is has pretty tight clearance to the big ends. I wouldn't run without it unless there is no other choice.

[DVandrews]

Your problem appears to be the bolts holding the scraper plate, if it were me I would be using countersunk headed set screws so the fastening do not protrude above the scraper plate profile.

Dave

[Evoluzione]

That's a windage tray not a crank scraper.

[DVandrews]

Evoluzione said:

That's a windage tray not a crank scraper.

The purpose of a scraper is to remove ejected oil from the crank area and reduce windage as well as improving oil pickup, in a number of engines the two devices are integrated. Can't see from the photos if that is the case.

Dave

[Evoluzione]

DVandrews said:

Evoluzione said:

That's a windage tray not a crank scraper.

The purpose of a scraper is to remove ejected oil from the crank area and reduce windage as well as improving oil pickup, in a number of engines the two devices are integrated. Can't see from the photos if that is the case.

Dave

Sorry I respectfully disagree, a scraper does exactly that - scrapes oil from the crank.
The sump in question more than likely doesn't have one as it would be fitted at the side which is pictured.

[DVandrews]

Evoluzione said:

Sorry I respectfully disagree, a scraper does exactly that - scrapes oil from the crank.
The sump in question more than likely doesn't have one as it would be fitted at the side which is pictured.

OK we'll disagree respectfully I often fit scrapers and the ones I use go at the lowest point of the cranks rotation, thse concentrate the crank spill into the gulley for the dry sump pickup which is directly below. on the throw side of the crank a perforated windage apparatus is sometimes fitted and on the trailing side a solid windage device.

Dave

[Evoluzione]

DVandrews said:

OK we'll disagree respectfully I often fit scrapers and the ones I use go at the lowest point of the cranks rotation, thse concentrate the crank spill into the gulley for the dry sump pickup which is directly below. on the throw side of the crank a perforated windage apparatus is sometimes fitted and on the trailing side a solid windage device.

Dave

So a perpendicular scraper? I like that idea.

If anyone else wants further reading try here: http://www.crank-scrapers.com/What%20is%20a%20cran...

Kevin Johnson seems to be a bit of an expert in this kind of thing.

[gumpetung]

Thanks for the reply guys, I'll adjust/cut and refit baffle (or what ever it is ).
Next task is to get the sump oil tight, never quite succeeded in that before.

[anonymous-user]

Evoluzione said:

If anyone else wants further reading try here: http://www.crank-scrapers.com/What%20is%20a%20cran...

Kevin Johnson seems to be a bit of an expert in this kind of thing.

Amazing how easy it is to become an "expert" these days! Just write an internet page full of sciency looking stuff and hope no one asks any difficult questions......................

[andygo]

I'd be brazing the baffle to the sump. Thats the way all the Formula Ford 1600 engines I've had have been done. And whilst the welding bottles are out its easy to gently heat up the plate and relieve the area where the big end bolts catching. TBH the plate is probably set a bit high in the sump.

I'd be a bit worried with bolting the plate to what must be a small bracket off the sump wall.

And re your leaky sump - just use a small amount of silicon and leave it to cure after bolting up. Have you been using orange Hermitite?

Another reason for sumps leaking can be crankcase compression. Make sure the rocker box is ventilated. On the Formula Fords we used to plate up that stupid plastic oil filler and have a rubber pipe attached to a small 1/2" outlet pipe venting to the oil tank. The oil tank would vent to the atmosphere.

Edited by andygo on Wednesday 13th March 14:02

[gumpetung]

The new sump is made in alloy so no brazing, the old sump was steel and the a similar plate was indeed brazed. The new plate is bolted to casted 'pedestals' on the alloy sump it self.
I'll make sure to use Loctite treadsafe when fixing the plate to ensure that the bolts stay in place.
The rockerbox is vented to the DS tank and the DS tank is vented to... ehhh.... the road... but dont see any evidence much oil beeing ejected that way.

I am using RTV silicone as a sealant, not familiar with Hermitite it may be branded differently here in Denmark, I'm using a garage that dosent allow me to leave the car over night and I dont have a trailer, so getting the sealant cured before filling with oil and driving off is difficult, but I'll try to give it good time.
Thanks for the advice