MK4 GTI + Lowering Springs = Good Idea?

[podgeorge]

As per the title, tempted to get some Apex lowering springs for my Golf Mk4 GTI 1.8T purely for handling benefits.

They seem to get good reviews, can anybody else shed any opinions as to whether this is a wise move or not?

I have considered coilovers but seem a tad expensive for my current financial status! The springs are a bargain £80 from Euro Car Parts!!

Cheers!

[GraemeP]

I have a mk4 with Eibach springs and factory shocks - handles ok for what it is (has 18" bbs wheels as well).

[podgeorge]

That's interesting! Did you notice a large improvement over the standard springs when you changed them?

Cheers

[Ved]

You'll get much more from a stiffer rear ARB so I'd do that first as lowering springs won't really do a great deal without some better bracing. A strut brace on the front does help a little bit as well if you've got some pennies left over. I found 18" wheels helped reduce roll and gave more weight to the steering as well.

Avoid coil overs as they just ruin the ride quality.

[Dr Doofenshmirtz]

It'll ruin it.
Every car I've been in or owned with lowering springs on standard shocks has been bouncy and uncomfortable.

[morgrp]

Better off maintaining the ride height and uprating the dampers

[podgeorge]

Thanks for you help guys, it's appreciated

Well I'll look into rear ARB's now and avoid coil overs! I'm right in thinking a stiffer rear ARB will reduce understeer? Is that correct?

Cheers

[HustleRussell]

Apex? Cheap. Positive reviews? "YEH I LUV DEEZ SPRIGS PROPER LOW INNIT"

[HustleRussell]

podgeorge said:

Thanks for you help guys, it's appreciated

Well I'll look into rear ARB's now and avoid coil overs! I'm right in thinking a stiffer rear ARB will reduce understeer? Is that correct?

Cheers

It'd take more than a RARB to stop a mkIV understeering, they are set up very safe- but it will help.

[podgeorge]

Haha, thanks hustle Russell. I'm not trying to eliminate it, more trying to improve it so a RARB seems like a good idea so far!

Anyone else shed any light on this?

Cheers

[JamesD1]

whitline do a RARB for the mk4 gti and was the recomended upgrade for them.

link here: http://www.dpmperformance.co.uk/whiteline-24mm-rea...

[Ved]

HustleRussell said:

podgeorge said:

Thanks for you help guys, it's appreciated

Well I'll look into rear ARB's now and avoid coil overs! I'm right in thinking a stiffer rear ARB will reduce understeer? Is that correct?

Cheers

It'd take more than a RARB to stop a mkIV understeering, they are set up very safe- but it will help.

It worked on all four of mine so yes it will help but don't go nuts and create something that doesn't balance. Doing both the front and rear isn't a bad idea but obviously costs more. Give Awesome GTI a call and they'll advise you but refreshing the bushes may also be a smart move. Do a bit at a time and you'll find your preference.

This kit is quite good for what you get but just check the condition of your current links to make sure the extra stiffness won't rip your OEM ones to bits http://www.awesomegti.com/car/vw/golfmk4/kw-anti-s...

Edited by Ved on Monday 27th January 21:26

[aka_kerrly]

Fitting lowering springs onto existing (read potentially worn) shock absorbers is something which can be done but is generally only done if you are after lower ride height and not so much improved handling. That said I have used APEX springs in the past with KONI and Spax shocks and found them to be a good balance of firm/not bone breaking.

To do it properly you need shocks and springs, Koni or Bilstein shocks with Eibach or H&R springs are a common combination for mk4s as are Eibach or Whiteline anti roll bars.

Oh an having a bigger rear anti roll bar and no upgrades to the front does help cure understeer, it encourages lift off oversteer and trail braking into corners which can be good!

It's also worth mentioning that good tyres and geometry should be the first steps to sorting the handling!!

[podgeorge]

Cheers Ved, that's very useful!

However I have just looked at how expensive that kit is! I think perhaps I'll leave it how it is for the time being and renew the bushes all round hopefully see a bit of improvement in those. After all AFAIK they haven't been replaced in 110,000 miles!

[Sensibleboy]

Ved said:

You'll get much more from a stiffer rear ARB so I'd do that first as lowering springs won't really do a great deal without some better bracing. A strut brace on the front does help a little bit as well if you've got some pennies left over. I found 18" wheels helped reduce roll and gave more weight to the steering as well.

Avoid coil overs as they just ruin the ride quality.

Strut braces actually increase understeer - realistically most strut braces are mounted on such thin steel that they do virtually nothing.
Not sure how wheel size influences body roll though.
You can't claim all coilovers ruin the ride quality. A coilover with the same spring and damper rate and a conventional spring and damper will ride and handle the same. Cheap coilovers with minimal testing ruin ride quality. Quality parts designed for the use they will be put towards won't ruin the ride.

podgeorge said:

Thanks for you help guys, it's appreciated

Well I'll look into rear ARB's now and avoid coil overs! I'm right in thinking a stiffer rear ARB will reduce understeer? Is that correct?

Cheers

A stiffer rear ARB lessens the grip at the rear increasing oversteer - as they increase weight transfer to the outside rear wheel. They do help keep the inside front tyre loaded (by reducing roll at the rear) increasing traction out of corners. As the cars balance is moved towards more oversteer it gives the impression that there is less understeer.

Edited by Sensibleboy on Monday 27th January 21:42

[Ved]

Strut braces actually do quite a lot for the MK4 because it's a very flexible platform from the factory. It won't cause understeer as it's been suggested to match it with balanced ARBs - stiffer on the rear. The brace just benefits the steering feel as there's less flex and delay in inputs. Trust me I've a lot of experience in MK4s and how to make them less crap You can also get a lower brace from an S3 for a bit more feel, although it'll never be that brilliant.

[scherzkeks]

podgeorge said:

As per the title, tempted to get some Apex lowering springs for my Golf Mk4 GTI 1.8T purely for handling benefits.

They seem to get good reviews, can anybody else shed any opinions as to whether this is a wise move or not?

I have considered coilovers but seem a tad expensive for my current financial status! The springs are a bargain £80 from Euro Car Parts!!

Cheers!

Any perceived benefits (if you can actually perceive any) from lowering the MK4 beyond the height of the stock sport springs are cancelled out due to the suboptimal front end geometry. The MK4 GTI is suboptimal even at stock height for a performance car; by lowering from this height you take it past the point of no return.

Your roll center will be compromised, and there aren't really any changes you can make that will compensate for it. For proof, look no further than what the OEM engineers did on the R32, MKI TT, and S3 8L. On these cars, they used revised control arms and wheel carriers with different mounting points to get the arms above parallel while on a stock sport spring . Those front end parts could be an option but they are expensive.

[goneape]

Different car but same platform. I put apex springs on the TT a couple of years ago because the original suspension was wearing. I also replaced the shocks with newer but still part worn oem shocks. Both ride and handling seem indistinguishable from before, which is what I was after - just a tad lower. I also run the golf 4 arb.

Mind you the TT is of course so numb I'm unlikely to tell the difference anyway