RE: Quattro's new boss: PH Meets
RE: Quattro's new boss: PH Meets
Friday 17th October 2014

Quattro's new boss: PH Meets

Heinz-Peter Hollerweger talks diesels, hybrids and the importance of ludicrous power for future fast Audis



Germany's in-house performance divisions have been playing musical chairs recently.

Earlier this year Quattro GmbH's then-boss Franciscus van Meelsuddenly left to head up Audi's Chinese operations, after reportedly falling out with the company's overall product supremo Ulrich Hackenberg (we can only presume the head of Audi Siberia was already taken.) Since then, perhaps not altogether surprisingly, van Meel has left Audi and will shortly be taking the reins of BMW's M-Division, following the retirement of the genial Friedrich Nitschke. Meaning that Quattro also has a new boss, veteran Audi engineer Heinz Peter Hollerweger, who we spent an illuminating 30 minutes with at the Paris show.

If a C63 stays V8 then the RS4 will. Good
If a C63 stays V8 then the RS4 will. Good
In corporate terms, Austrian-born Hollerweger is the safest pair of hands, an Audi lifer whose last job before Quattro was as overall head of vehicle development. The good news is he's certainly not a corporate clone, attending the Paris show wearing a jaunty cravat in stark contrast to the grey-over-grey suits of most of his colleagues. And although Hollerweger doesn't quite match the fearless honesty of Hackenberg - a man who has been known to discuss the finer points of his five-year model plan while PRs slit their wrists in the background - he's certainly happy to tell it like it is.

We start with the thorny question of diesel-powered RS models. Audi has been dropping some very broad hints that these are going to happen, none broader than letting hacks have a go in a prototype with "RS5 TDI" written on the side of it, but Hollerweger insists that diesel RSes aren't a done deal yet. "That battle has not been won yet," he says. "It's one of the battles, but I have to say it's mainly a European battle."

When pressed harder, Hollerweger raises the interesting prospect that high-performance diesels might not be full 'RS' models, with Quattro effectively creating an equivalent of BMW's M Performance diffusion line. "I'm not sure if you should weaken the strength of the RS brand with two different engines [in the same model]. But I could really imagine having some design elements and performance elements of the RS with a diesel engine. Whether it's called 'RS' or not I don't know, it's not decided."

And the five-cylinder turbo stays. More good news!
And the five-cylinder turbo stays. More good news!
There's positive news on the division's existing powerplants, with Hollerweger confirming secure futures for both the warbling 2.5-litre five-cylinder and the almighty twin-turbocharged V8. Audi's announcement earlier this year of a 400hp version of the existing EA888 four-cylinder turbo seemed to make the five-pot redundant, but Hollerweger confirms it will be developed, hinting it will produce substantially more power "I think that 400hp is not the limit of the five-cylinder at all," but also that Quattro still wants its 'own' powerplant for the junior RSes. "I think its value is not only pure power. It's an exciting engine, the sound and the feel is unique - and it will have significantly more torque at low revs."

The twin-turbocharged V8's future also looks rosy, with Hollerweger's refusal to confirm that power levels have peaked effectively confirming a plus version of the RS6 and RS7, likely to have around 600hp - "I think people with money still like to buy horsepower." He also said that Quattro will continue to develop V8 engines for next-generation models, and even hinted that the next RS4 and RS5 will be sticking with eight-cylinder power rather than following BMW down the downsizing route. "Look at Mercedes," he says, "they have introduced the C63 with an eight cylinder." He didn't quite tip a comedy wink at this point, but it wasn't far off.

Hollerweger is a career Audi man
Hollerweger is a career Audi man
The really new news is part-electric powertrains, with plans clearly advanced to bring some volt-based assistance to RS models. Separately at the show Hackenberg said there would be a hybrid version of the next R8 in conjunction with the fully-electric E-Tron, and Hollerweger confirmed that work is advanced on producing part-electric powertrains, with Quattro's role as a technology leader meaning its products will be used to showcase new performance technology. "High performance electric driven cars or part electric cars don't need to use a big battery at all. There's no engine that has better torque at zero revs than an electric [motor], and I believe you can adopt it into a high performance car without carrying 250kg or even 150kg of batteries."

He also confirmed that the electric turbochargers that Audi has been talking about for several years will be here very soon, with the move to 48-volt electrical systems making them possible. Active 'performance' aero is also coming, in addition to the sort of efficiency-boosting active systems that Audi AG is working on.

Diesel RS models "not a done deal yet"
Diesel RS models "not a done deal yet"
When it comes to growing Quattro, Hollerweger takes a relaxed approach. "It's hard to say if there's a natural size for the number of cars we products - maybe 15,000, maybe 20,000, maybe 25,000," he offers. "But the important thing is to make sure the cars are right, not to aim at growth at any price. If there's a natural growth, that's great - but I want to keep RS models as niche models, not mainstream models."

So does that mean fewer RS versions? Probably not. "I wouldn't say it's necessary to have RS models for all, but I cannot say 'this is too small' or 'this is too big' - an RS1 could be a nice alternative, even if there is a very small market for these cars - as well as an RS Q7. I certainly wouldn't exclude that for the future at all."

Author
Discussion

fastgerman

Original Poster:

2,001 posts

225 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
The new RS4 doesn't seem too popular. I think the addition of some turbos, better mpg and lower tax bracket as with the new C63 could be interesting. I'm considering a B8 S4 at present and just waiting for the prices of the updated model to drop bellow 20k. Mr H seemed happy with his :-)

StuntmanMike

15,076 posts

181 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
The Crack Fox said:
Diesels, hybrids and ludicrous power - yet not a single reason why I'd ever choose an Audi with my heart. Please, Audi, DO SOMETHING APPEALING!
+1

Krikkit

27,938 posts

211 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
When is the switch to the new high-voltage electronics coming? That's been due for a hell of a long time!

krisdelta

4,673 posts

231 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
Not all cars are "heart" purchases, I'm not sure it makes them a less compelling option - just motivated in a different way. Long may manufacturers put stupidly large powerplants in relatively small cars!

Ti22

290 posts

203 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
Lots of talk about powertrains, sadly no talk about driver satisfaction.

oldtimer2

729 posts

163 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
His comment on hybrids was the most interesting to me as it indicates that manufacturers are still experimenting to find the best solution. Land Rover`s hybrid solution (using regenerative braking)for the new Range Rover Sport provides a 3.0 litre V6 hybrid diesel with the performance of the 4.4 litre V8 diesel. 0-60 is 6.4 secs vs 6.5 secs, but with better fuel economy (combined 44.1 mpg vs 32.8 mpg). The main area the hybrid loses out is in its towing capacity (3000kg vs 3500kg) though that is unlikely to bother anyone reading this.

Limpet

6,624 posts

191 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
Ti22 said:
Lots of talk about powertrains, sadly no talk about driver satisfaction.
Yep, I noticed that as well.

A good friend of mine treated himself to a new RS5 last year. I was lucky enough to have a go in it. A heck of an experience in many ways, mostly thanks to the face distorting grip, and the frankly ridiculous acceleration and soundtrack combo that just makes you laugh out loud. That V8 at 8000 RPM on wide open throttle makes a noise to die for. Sadly the rest of it was aloof and uninvolving. I'm not a CH powersliding God, but I do expect to feel connected to a car, and I had no more sense of what the front wheels were doing than I get in my £28k 320d. OK the RS5 could carry ridiculous speeds into corners, slingshot out of them with amazing grip, and reel in straights at a rate like nothing I've ever driven, but I never had that yearn to drive it more, to learn it better. In terms of raw pace, nothing I've ever driven would see which way it went on pretty much any road, but it was a one (or two) trick pony. Grip and pace, both amply demonstrated within a mile of driving it. Fun? Long term interest? Take the soundtrack and pace out of the equation, and no, not for me.

All the tangible technical bits nailed, but just missing that last bit of tweaking by a keen driver. But fast Audis look good, go well and are impeccably finished. A set of qualities that have served them well enough until now.


Dave Hedgehog

16,340 posts

234 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
hybrid RS no thanks ...

diesel RS, meh, meh and thrice meh


glad the glorious 5 pot is staying, but hopefully they will take the marketing restrictor of it this time and let it run at 400bhp

hopefully the next RS4 will be a blown v8, its a glorious engine when on full bore but very weak as a daily driver

marctwo

3,666 posts

290 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
RS1 with 2.5l i5 please!

smilo996

3,847 posts

200 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
The nature of Big Auto in Germany is getting very tiring. Germania for Germany via a recirulation of German star managers and where they can, Germany for everyone else bringing more business back to Germany in the process. He does however have some interesting comments.


iloveboost

1,531 posts

192 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
marctwo said:
RS1 with 2.5l i5 please!
Sounds good (no pun intended!) but I don't think the engine would even fit in it! An RS1 with wide arches, the 300hp S3 engine and 225 tyres as standard could be manufactured, but I doubt it as it could steal sales from the S3. frown

Back to topic:
I guess Audi are using the same technology Volvo showed in that recent video.
I agree that the RS4/RS5 seems a bit thirsty compared to an S4/S5, and Audi appeared to restrict the 3.0 TFSI by bleeding off the supercharger boost way before the power peak (unless that's sometimes standard practice to control heat?). That makes me think the supercharged 3.0 TFSI may be used in the next S4/S5 in a 'de-restricted' version with 414hp/420ps.
A 2.0 TFSI with a biturbo and electric turbo will be in the next S3/TTS with 355hp/360ps.
Same tech in the 2.5 TFSI will be in the next RS3/TTRS/R8 'V8' with 444hp/450ps.
Same tech in the 3.0 TFSI will be in the next RS4/RS5/S6/S7/R8 'V10' with 532hp/540ps.
Same tech in the 4.0 TFSI will be in the next RS6/RS7 but will be launched in the Lamborghini Estoque with 690hp/700ps.
All speculation but from what he said I'd also put money on Audi will put a 414hp/420ps 3.0 TDI biturbo+electric turbo engine in an S6/S7, to rival the M550d, and will also put it in an S4/S5 chassis to create a TDI version of that car.

Scuffers

20,887 posts

304 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
I want an RS4/5 with the engine and box from the RS6

the current RS4 doesn't do it for me.

other point, stop making RS's only Avants!


Wills2

29,685 posts

205 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
"When pressed harder, Hollerweger raises the interesting prospect that high-performance diesels might not be full 'RS' models, with Quattro effectively creating an equivalent of BMW's M Performance diffusion line."


They already have an RS sub brand called "S" and already produce the SQ5 which is a high performance diesel with S branding.

So the sub brand is there, the diesel precedent is there, so they should just get on and do it.




Edited by Wills2 on Friday 17th October 16:27

Matt UK

18,084 posts

230 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
Limpet said:
Yep, I noticed that as well.

A good friend of mine treated himself to a new RS5 last year. I was lucky enough to have a go in it. A heck of an experience in many ways, mostly thanks to the face distorting grip, and the frankly ridiculous acceleration and soundtrack combo that just makes you laugh out loud. That V8 at 8000 RPM on wide open throttle makes a noise to die for. Sadly the rest of it was aloof and uninvolving. I'm not a CH powersliding God, but I do expect to feel connected to a car, and I had no more sense of what the front wheels were doing than I get in my £28k 320d. OK the RS5 could carry ridiculous speeds into corners, slingshot out of them with amazing grip, and reel in straights at a rate like nothing I've ever driven, but I never had that yearn to drive it more, to learn it better. In terms of raw pace, nothing I've ever driven would see which way it went on pretty much any road, but it was a one (or two) trick pony. Grip and pace, both amply demonstrated within a mile of driving it. Fun? Long term interest? Take the soundtrack and pace out of the equation, and no, not for me.

All the tangible technical bits nailed, but just missing that last bit of tweaking by a keen driver. But fast Audis look good, go well and are impeccably finished. A set of qualities that have served them well enough until now.
Having driven a few fast Audi cars, I share similar views.

But from my experience of those who own them, they make sense:

A) like the grip and power, the fact it's an Audi, good interiors, not interested in driving dynamics beyond go, stop, grip.

B) like driving, have more focused cars in the garage for pleasure, like the Audi for everyday grunt and AWD security, accept it's not a car they grab the keys for when seeking thrills.

redroadster

1,886 posts

262 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
They have a problem with image just not quite high enough always trailing bmw and merc,can,t see it changing in the near future.

Leggy

1,029 posts

252 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
Matt UK said:
Limpet said:
Yep, I noticed that as well.

A good friend of mine treated himself to a new RS5 last year. I was lucky enough to have a go in it. A heck of an experience in many ways, mostly thanks to the face distorting grip, and the frankly ridiculous acceleration and soundtrack combo that just makes you laugh out loud. That V8 at 8000 RPM on wide open throttle makes a noise to die for. Sadly the rest of it was aloof and uninvolving. I'm not a CH powersliding God, but I do expect to feel connected to a car, and I had no more sense of what the front wheels were doing than I get in my £28k 320d. OK the RS5 could carry ridiculous speeds into corners, slingshot out of them with amazing grip, and reel in straights at a rate like nothing I've ever driven, but I never had that yearn to drive it more, to learn it better. In terms of raw pace, nothing I've ever driven would see which way it went on pretty much any road, but it was a one (or two) trick pony. Grip and pace, both amply demonstrated within a mile of driving it. Fun? Long term interest? Take the soundtrack and pace out of the equation, and no, not for me.

All the tangible technical bits nailed, but just missing that last bit of tweaking by a keen driver. But fast Audis look good, go well and are impeccably finished. A set of qualities that have served them well enough until now.
Having driven a few fast Audi cars, I share similar views.

But from my experience of those who own them, they make sense:

A) like the grip and power, the fact it's an Audi, good interiors, not interested in driving dynamics beyond go, stop, grip.

B) like driving, have more focused cars in the garage for pleasure, like the Audi for everyday grunt and AWD security, accept it's not a car they grab the keys for when seeking thrills.
That's me totally agree. I' spend hours in mine covering motorways and the A roads of the South west and Wales. My A4 Quattro is perfect, and great place to be then Elise for fun.

paulmon

2,209 posts

271 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
hybrid RS no thanks ...

diesel RS, meh, meh and thrice meh


glad the glorious 5 pot is staying, but hopefully they will take the marketing restrictor of it this time and let it run at 400bhp

hopefully the next RS4 will be a blown v8, its a glorious engine when on full bore but very weak as a daily driver
I'm curious to what parts of the RS4 you find weak as a daily. I'm probably still in the honeymoon period but I think its a great daily driver.

Dave Hedgehog

16,340 posts

234 months

Saturday 18th October 2014
quotequote all
paulmon said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
hybrid RS no thanks ...

diesel RS, meh, meh and thrice meh


glad the glorious 5 pot is staying, but hopefully they will take the marketing restrictor of it this time and let it run at 400bhp

hopefully the next RS4 will be a blown v8, its a glorious engine when on full bore but very weak as a daily driver
I'm curious to what parts of the RS4 you find weak as a daily. I'm probably still in the honeymoon period but I think its a great daily driver.
The engine is dead below 4k(ish), micras will beat it away from the lights unless you want to be in gun ho mode all the time, the 5 pot is a vastly better daily driver engine as it pulls hard from 1400 revs. The V8 is a fantastic engine when you are on it but it's just out of place in an RS avant, its great for the R8 as that's a driver focused weekend car and the noise is cloud9

The RS6 really shows up how weak the engine is in daily duties

Now if you could match the RS6 engine with the superb RS4 gearbox (the 6s box is an old school dim witted affair, so it's best just left in sport) in the B8 that i would buy


The new M3/M4 engine is far better suited to a daily driver as well

Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Saturday 18th October 06:43

Scuffers

20,887 posts

304 months

Saturday 18th October 2014
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
The engine is dead below 4k(ish), micras will beat it away from the lights unless you want to be in gun ho mode all the time, the 5 pot is a vastly better daily driver engine as it pulls hard from 1400 revs. The V8 is a fantastic engine when you are on it but it's just out of place in an RS avant, its great for the R8 as that's a driver focused weekend car and the noise is cloud9

The RS6 really shows up how weak the engine is in daily duties

Now if you could match the RS6 engine with the superb RS4 gearbox (the 6s box is an old school dim witted affair, so it's best just left in sport) in the B8 that i would buy
exactly, the S6/RS6 turbo V8 is a dream in comparison.

not sure what gearbox you have beef with though, the 8 speed ZF is awesome.

Dave Hedgehog

16,340 posts

234 months

Saturday 18th October 2014
quotequote all
Scuffers said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
The engine is dead below 4k(ish), micras will beat it away from the lights unless you want to be in gun ho mode all the time, the 5 pot is a vastly better daily driver engine as it pulls hard from 1400 revs. The V8 is a fantastic engine when you are on it but it's just out of place in an RS avant, its great for the R8 as that's a driver focused weekend car and the noise is cloud9

The RS6 really shows up how weak the engine is in daily duties

Now if you could match the RS6 engine with the superb RS4 gearbox (the 6s box is an old school dim witted affair, so it's best just left in sport) in the B8 that i would buy
exactly, the S6/RS6 turbo V8 is a dream in comparison.

not sure what gearbox you have beef with though, the 8 speed ZF is awesome.
If you want to waft / uber barge it's a great box, if you want to control the box precisely it's horrible, the RS4 duel clutch is infinitly better for control, it does suits the 6 thou as it's not intended to be as raw as the 4

But if I could I would have the blown v8 with the 4s duel clutch