Buying Advice & Tips for 997 Gen1

[cp81]

Hi,

Any advice & tips on buying a 997 Gen 1 would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Andrew911]

Hi,

I would strongly advise a Gen 2 as its a more sorted engine. However if funds don't allow this at the present time you need a PPI which includes a borescope exam (e.g peter morgan - google him). Bore scoring can affect the Gen 1 engine resulting in a re-build. If it were me & PPI was ok I would take the car to hartech to get the engine sorted - which includes things like bore liners, better cooling etc. Their web site has detailed info on 997 engines etc & worth a read. This is not meant to scare you & a Gen 1 can be great car you will enjoy. But for peace of mind I would do the preventative stuff Hartech recommend.

[harleywilma]

Just buy the best one you can find,Most of the well known dealers will be able to sort you out a proper car just do your homework,Don't let the scare mongers put you off with horror stories about these cars,there are loads on the road and lots of happy owners not having problems. There are a few negative threads on here quoting all the nasties.But good spec cars still at a premium so what does that say!
A good dealer has his rep to look after so start there first and the better ones are always willing to give advise,talk to as many as you can,I wouldn't rule out a private car with good history and spec
as you may turn up a bargain and to be fair this is where the dealers start also....

[mollytherocker]

I dont think Peter Morgan does a borescope does he?

[Fl0pp3r]

I don't know...I don't think you can call it 'scaremongering' to be honest. The M96/97 issues are nothing if not well documented now, and if I was buying another 996/997.1 I'd want it to have the preventative measures pre-installed (ie a Hartech job) or make sure I had a sizeable kitty set aside should the worst happen (ie at least £10k budget). That is (sadly) nearer the truth of the matter imo. I sold my 997 once it fell out of OPC warranty for exactly this reason.

On the plus side, the gen1 997s are dynamically great cars and can potentially offer you excellent bang for buck right now...as long as you go in with your eyes open vis a vis the above.

Hope you find the car that's right for you squire.

[cp81]

Well I am in the early stages of looking, my budget in mind is for 997 Gen 1 or very late 996 C4S. Hence my request for advice. Preference at moment is 997 as better looking.

I have read some up on the engine issues but if they were that bad I would have thought the adverts of cars would show rebuilds for nearly all of them, like TVR has with its Speed 6 engines.

I always look for good service history of the car, as this is a key indicator of how the car had been looked after. Plus if buying private its interesting to see the owner, as this to can give a good impression of how the car is treated.

[hondansx]

You could always get an aftermarket warranty.

I never found the Gen 1 a particuarly compelling car, particularly as i had a Tiptronic (shared the car with auto only license holder!) which was pretty ghastly.

My previous car was an M3 CSL and i bought the 911 without a drive first; i just believed what i read in the magazines! I was therefore disappointed to find a car that wanted to understeer in all (road) scenarios. I understand they have their own unique way, but i missed having a keen turn-in. I also found the interior 'plasticky' which a few years on will be even worse now the PCM and the like is hopelessly out of date.

However, the 997 remains agreat shape - a sure fire classic - which is is why i persisted. Moving to the 4WD Carrera 4S PDK in Gen 2 guise i found it a revelation. It had a better ride, but with a keen front end and grip whilst still having a rear-driven balance. The Gen 2 also had a smarter interior, improved PCM and a tweaked exterior (an improvement in my eyes).

I'm not saying don't get a Gen 1, but at least drive one given the potential for them to break!

[cp81]

I will certainly test drive one, when I am in more advance position of purchase.

I am intending to really use Porsche specialists local to me for servicing.

[cp81]

Plus if not brought from a dealer, will look into warranty options...

Has anyone on here with an early Gen 1 997 any feedback and hopefully still enjoying it?

Thanks

[bigkeeko]

Top end respected specialist dealers still sell gen 1 cars.

Why? Because they aren't as bad as the scaremongers make out.

I had a bump on my elbow a couple of years ago. According to the internet I had weeks to live.

[harleywilma]

Life is too short.Just look at some of the dealers stocklists, Lots of 996 and 997s on there forecourts being bought and sold..Noticed some of the 996c4s cars actually increasing in value.

[FarQue]

cp81 said:

Plus if not brought from a dealer, will look into warranty options...

Has anyone on here with an early Gen 1 997 any feedback and hopefully still enjoying it?

Thanks

I own an '05 Carrera S tiptonic (tiptronic through necessity: my left leg isn't what it once was). Purchased from opc at approx 37k miles and now on 63k miles. Has had a broken spring on the front and a broken spring on the back. The gear selector stiffened up and was changed under warranty rather than just lubed up. Once out of extended warranty it was fitted with a low temp thermostat. I also treated it to new rads and condensers for its 10th birthday: no leaks but they were looking grotty. The water pump failed recently. She NEVER gets revved hard from cold and is always warmed up gently. Although a bit of a weekend car, she is used hard, does a couple of track days most years, goes to the Nurburgring at least once a year and has just been over the Alps to Italy. Barely uses any oil. I love the little car dearly and genuinely can't think what I would change her for, considering the 'cost to change' v 'enjoyment factor'. Buy sensibly and enjoy.

[cp81]

FarQue thanks, sounds like you really enjoy yours.

Out of interest is bore scoring a similar issue on the late 996?

[r4_rick]

I think it is, its not until the Gen 2 997 that the problem is sorted (only going off what I have read)

[mollytherocker]

FarQue said:

I own an '05 Carrera S tiptonic (tiptronic through necessity: my left leg isn't what it once was). Purchased from opc at approx 37k miles and now on 63k miles. Has had a broken spring on the front and a broken spring on the back. The gear selector stiffened up and was changed under warranty rather than just lubed up. Once out of extended warranty it was fitted with a low temp thermostat. I also treated it to new rads and condensers for its 10th birthday: no leaks but they were looking grotty. The water pump failed recently. She NEVER gets revved hard from cold and is always warmed up gently. Although a bit of a weekend car, she is used hard, does a couple of track days most years, goes to the Nurburgring at least once a year and has just been over the Alps to Italy. Barely uses any oil. I love the little car dearly and genuinely can't think what I would change her for, considering the 'cost to change' v 'enjoyment factor'. Buy sensibly and enjoy.

Hi FarQue

I think you are proof that with the right care and preventive measures, these engines can be as reliable and servicable as most others. I certainly would have no problem recommending your excellent condition 997S to anybody if you were selling it.

However, not all owners are as fastidious as you and this is the risk most buyers face. How does anybody now how a prospective purchase has been treated for the last 10 years of its life? Buying from one of the blue chip indys can give some confidence, but even they dont know if its been screwed from cold etc for years.

Having said that, this is true of any secondhand car!

[Fl0pp3r]

The problem with this bore scoring is its not necessarily down to misuse by the owner. There is a congenital weakness in the material used for the cylinder liners (lokasil) and a poor design vis a vis oil movement and engine cooling. In other words, you could treat your M96/97 as sweet as you like, but still incur some scoring. Tips are by all accounts worse due to their keeping the engine in the lower rev range continually, where the torque value is higher (such is my understanding having read around the subject quite extensively, but I could be wrong on that bit!). So it's good to hear one Tip owner is enjoying reliability! :-)

As cmoose says, don't get sucked in by people telling you a scope isn't needed - if you want peace of mind get it done on a Gen1 997. Any reputable specialist will always run a scope on a used 997.1 or for that matter 996. Failing that, as a kind of insurance policy you can take out a Hartech plan which will cover any work that needs doing. Don't bother with a 3rd party warranty - none of them will cover bore scoring. Fact!

Edited by Fl0pp3r on Saturday 26th September 23:59

[mollytherocker]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Surely theres a number of measures?

Low temp thermostat
Extra rad
Driving style
Always setting off in 1st (tips set off in 2nd in auto)
General mechanical sympathy
Oil grade/type

Surely the above compared to a cold thrashed car with no preventitive measures is going to fair better? Baz always mentions how the engines have been treated as a factor.

[mollytherocker]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Surely theres a number of measures?

Low temp thermostat
Extra rad
Driving style
Always setting off in 1st (tips set off in 2nd in auto)
General mechanical sympathy
Oil grade/type

Surely the above compared to a cold thrashed car with no preventitive measures is going to fair better? Baz always mentions how the engines have been treated as a factor.

[memps]

I bought a 2004 3.6 gen 1 manual with 57k on it. I got it from a very well known Indy & will keep it until the year warranty is up. I also agonised over the issues but made the decision not to get a gen 2 as they were circa 40k, mine was 16k cheaper & in my view the better option, however, I would not have got it without the warranty. It's a brilliant driver & is a head turner.
I make efforts not to thrash it, in saying this my eyes are wide open as it could lunch with the ims at any time & there is also the bore scoring. At the end of the day I took the plunge & and am happy with my decision but I did my research & have mitigated with the year safety of a warranty.

As an aside, must say Porsche making defective cars from 1998-2008 & making bundles of cash & is eye wateringly bonkers. Cannot understand why there has not been a properly reasoned legal claim as I believe it would have merit
Shame on Porsche.

[YoungMD]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Im sure your right good well cared for cars have gone bang but generally the normal principles apply, i seem to recall something about the ramdom structure of some material in the coating can generally cause this so nothing to do with how the car in treated, but in general if the car is looked after and measures, which i think are worth it taken, oil, rads, temp sensor etc then you must have a better chance. The bores will go oval slower and generally last longer.....